Documenting Israeli army racism and torture thread 2

[Desertrose2023]

First thread almost full so starting another one to continue this discussion

I have had good discussions with @stomachamaleon so If I have spoken out of turn then I would be open to hearing why from her

@Parkingt111 yes it would be good for the poster to clarify what they meant.

https://www.instagram.com/p/C1hMyjCo75k/

So sad.

Immoral - if you hold them to the same standard we’d expect from a U.S. or U.K. soldier.

If we saw a film of one of ours doing that, we’d be shocked. Though no doubt that sort of stuff has gone on at the hands of U.K. and US too, the expectation would be that it is wrong, especially as here where it is hardly the heat of battle - just pure bullying and harassment.

It is surprising the IDF are filming themselves doing that. Who is their intended audience? Do Israeli civilians think this is great?

(Or would that somehow have been filmed by a Palestinian?)

@ScrollingLeaves yes maybe my words were harsh and if so i will ask mumsnet to delete but when I see that I see my own brother or member of my family. In this instance it looked like cctv footage to me

Please would you quote what was said by Parking111 that you are referring to? I have scrolled back a bit but cannot see what it could be.

I don’t like the way the IDF were treating that man either. Some of their actions were gratuitously bullying and provocative, especially the soldier stepping on the man’s back on purpose as he, the soldier, walked away. Not what you’d expect from an official, trained, state army when they were in no danger.

@Parkingt111 outrageous behaviour and unfortunately we can't expect them to behave in a moral manner. They're just not capable of it.

I don't think you'll get an answer from those who defend the IDF. They'll never accept the fact that there's so much wrong with the IDF.

List of key events, day 86

www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/31/israel-hamas-war-list-of-key-events-day-86?traffic_source=rss

From the report
Foreign Minister Eli Cohen told Israeli media that the government bears some responsibility for failing to prevent Hamas’s attack on October 7. He called for an investigation committee to be formed to hold those who were

Israel keeps saying they have to continue flattening Gaza to defend themselves from Oct 7 ever happening again.

If the misogynistic government had bothered to listen to all the people including especially their own women soldiers who were watching and reporting at the border on all sorts of Hamas preparations before Oct 7, the Hamas attack would never would have been able to happen in the first place.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/surveillance-soldiers-warned-of-hamas-activity-on-gaza-border-for-months-before-oct-7/
(the comments are worth reading too as other women report how they were always ignored in the IDF)

https://www.instagram.com/p/C1hMyjCo75k/

This video is well worth a watch in relation to October 7th, the caption on the post says the person speaking is Israeli Colonel Golani Vach talking about how Israeli tanks fired on houses on the day.

@Parkingt111 firstly an apology. My comment was because I never really see you write like that. You are generally quite able to see both sides and don't make sweeping comments.

Labelling anyone 'all the same' is not helpful. As has been pointed out there are conscripted children fighting for the IDF. Tarring everyone with the same brush is problematic.

I know you didn't mean it like that anyway. No offence meant. None taken.

edit - I’ve just seen the poster has apologized to @Parkingt111 so I’ve withdrawn my above comment.

the Hamas attack would never would have been able to happen in the first place.

@ScrollingLeaves I hate this sort of argument. Is if it's Israel's fault?

Your right they should have done more to keep the murderous, raping, bloodthirsty hordes away from them.

I am sure people will be looked in in great detail when this is over. And it won't be allowed to happen again. Lots of the failings are down to people genuinely thinking Hamas had neither the capability nor the will. And it turns out that was wrong.

@stomachamaleon point taken thank you
I have asked mumsnet to remove my post

From the Guardian today

Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, reportedly called for the return of Jewish settlers to the Gaza Strip after the war and said Gaza’s Palestinian population should be encouraged to emigrate. “To have security, we must control the territory,” Smotrich told Israel’s Army Radio in response to a question about the prospect of re-establishing settlements in Gaza. “In order to control the territory militarily for a long time, we need a civilian presence.

This man, Smotrich, together with Ben-Givr, is a big trouble maker.

The Israeli government is definitely having a laugh right now. Tony Blair he of the "dodgy dossier" fame, is tipped to be the mediator after the conflict:

Blair eyed as mediator on post-war Gaza, including resettlement of Palestinians

".. is reportedly being eyed by Israeli leaders to serve as the mediator between Jerusalem and moderate Arab countries on post-war Gaza and a controversial Israeli aim of having other nations absorb residents of Gaza who leave the Strip.
Blair arrived in Israel last week and met with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and war cabinet minister Benny Gantz, Channel 12 news reports, without citing a source. The report says that if the plan materializes, Blair will be in charge of checking the option of countries receiving Gazan refugees."

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/report-ex-uk-pm-blair-eyed-as-mediator-on-post-war-gaza-including-resettlement-of-palestinians/

@BelleHathor I saw that reported elsewhere yesterday - made me feel a bit sick TBH not just Blairs possible involvement but also how far ahead the plans are to displace the Palestinian people

Should add that Tony Blairs office have denied their involvement in this

Is he just taking a holiday in Israel then?

The ethnic cleansing of Gaza will not bring peace. The people who are a threat to Israel will simply be outside of Israel's control and official surveillance. Any country who accepts forcibly displaced Palestinians will have mossad active within their borders and if Hamas plan an attack from another country it will just be an excuse to start a war with that country for harbouring terrorists.

The Sinai plan was always insane, push Hamas into a region with the Muslim brotherhood, access to the med and the Red Sea and no blockade, what could possibly go wrong?

Any country with any sense will just say no.

Sometimes I think our politicians are manufacturing the conditions for conflict.

@FOJN

IDK what he was doing there - he's fancied himself as a Middle East peace envoy for decades which is doubly ironic as you say this plan will not bring a lasting peace

.

He has no shame about exploiting human suffering for kudos or capital.

@Efacsen I had a similar feeling of sickness too and TBH don't believe a word coming from Blairs office in terms of denial.

That he is responsible for happily giving America part of the evidence for the Bush administration to pursue their illegal and disastrous war in Iraq, should bar him from any work in the region.

Iraq is still living with the consequences: millions killed and displaced, ancient historical artifacts destroyed, economic destruction, ongoing birth defects and unusual cancers from the West using depleted uranium weapons.

@FOJN is right too, displacement of the Palestinians into the Sinai will give the Israeli government carte blanche to pursue perceived "threats" anywhere they want, International law be damned (not that they follow it). The IDF just killed an Iranian general in Syria.

I was watching this speech from the French Ambassador (Villepin) to the UN against the invasion in Iraq from March 2003, oh to have diplomats like this again.

A question for this evening:

https://www.instagram.com/p/C1jO1UIuKn0/?igsh=MWR3eG1tbXFqcXRqbA==

Also, off topic I know but can I just say how much I admire Francesca Albanese. She is awesome. No wonder Israel and the US are desperate to get rid of her. If anyone hasn’t seen her press conference to the National Press Club of Australia I’d highly recommend you watch.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1ZP0LPqhdz/?igsh=ZzFiNGo3Zndxdzdz

Here’s the full address in case anyone is interested. It’s an hour long but well worth it

I wish I had an answer to your question.

When I clicked onto that post a post from Eye on Palestine came up automatically afterwards of a screaming baby being dug out of rubble today in Palestine. The baby was no more than a few months old.

It's just so horrific and sad and no end in sight.