Documenting Israeli army racism and torture thread 2

[Desertrose2023]

First thread almost full so starting another one to continue this discussion

Thanks op

Didn’t take long for someone to break the mn guidelines! Let’s see how many comments until someone tries to get this thread closed down

@Goodornot the whole world was in shock on Oct 7th and agreed it was horrendous and still do. That doesn't mean 2 million people, half of which are children (and where not even born when hamas was voted in) should be killed.

Also israel helped to block the relection a couple of years ago....

So I think you need to re think

Or are you OK for yourself and your kids to be carpet bombed because someone else that you didn't vote for did something?

@EasterIssland I would argue that those comments are a perfect example of IDF torture and brainwashing if you ask me

Gaslighting is psychological torture

Thanks for the new thread @Desertrose2023 x

thank you OP!

That didn't take long at all 🙄

Thanks op.

That just happened on the thread about Hamas rape and torture, with some who have already posted here on this thread doing that there. On the few threads about anti semitism and Hamas, it happens constantly. So posters need to allow threads to be about what there meant to be about, or it will continue in both directions.

@untitledmum it is though. Keep repeating the same thing and not even commenting on what's happening in gaza. This is what the IDF want people to do.

She's not stating a new fact that we haven't heard a million times. No one is denying what happened is horrific. Those of us who are trying to help the people of gaza haven't denied this. Yet everyone who is pro israel trots out the same thing, what about hamas? What about Oct 7th? Etc and they don't say anything about the children in gaza, the innocent dead, wounded and homeless in gaza.

So yes it is a form of brainwashing. They don't want you to even think about those in gaza. Because you know hamas!

@untitledmum the brainwashing has worked on you and @Goodornot. Please go do your research and you'll see the propaganda you've been led to believe has been debunked.

If Palestinians and Hamas are so closely interlinked, why are we not seeing more Palestinian civilians fighting alongside Hamas? I've seen no indication of this from any media source (although please feel free it direct me if I've missed something). The estimates of numbers of combatants doesn't seem to have changed. In most urban conflicts (e.g. within parts of Syria) of this type the definition of combatants is often quite fluid with civilians joining "militias", but I've seen no evidence of this?

Those of us who are trying to help the people of gaza haven't denied this.

and then @Fairtobefairohhhhhc right underneath yours someone wrote:

you'll see the propaganda you've been led to believe has been debunked.

the mass rapes and torture have not been debunked.

100% agree with this.

@Iwantcakeeveryday I don't think they are referring to that. Moat likely many other claims by the IDF that have been debunked. I have said many times that Oct 7th shouldn't have happened. But maybe we need to look at why it happened.

Do you often find yourself sympathising with terrorists and thinking that actually, maybe they have a point?

@Humdingerydoo the poster is empathising with the plight of Palestinians as a whole, not with Hamas. Palestinians have been oppressed for 75 years.

Here is some background, as you seem to be unclear:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/israels-apartheid-against-palestinians-a-cruel-system-of-domination-and-a-crime-against-humanity/

Doesn't excuse what Hamas did but seeing it in a wider context is always necessary.

Yes apologies i was referring to the other claims the IDF have made and not what happened on 7/10.

Don't worry, I'm well read-up on the situation. Did you know that more Jews were displaced from Arab countries than there were displaced Palestinians during the Nakba? I assume you have also been fighting for their right to return, for their plight?

So now that's two of you. You don't like what Hamas did "but...". So as I asked the other poster, do you often find yourself sympathising with terrorists and thinking that maybe they had a point?

I'm really not understanding why there are people who cannot understand that the Palestinian civilians of Gaza are not Hamas. The same way that not supporting the Israeli government and Jews being separate. You can support both the Jews and Palestinians without supporting the IDF/Israeli government and Hamas.

MN should be embarrassed at allowing naked Hamas propaganda on the site.
Israel will do all it can to minimise non-combatant deaths among the Gazans but their first duty is to destroy Hamas completely, which they will do.
There is no moral equivalence between Hamas and Israel. Hamas are Islamofascist murderers and rapists, whose publicly declared purpose is the genocide of Jews and the occupation of Israel.
Unlike Palestine, which has never been a state, Israel is a legitimate, constitutional country fighting for its life. Israel will not kill any Arab non-combatant intentionally, but accepts many will die as a consequence of Hamas' actions, and all the confected outrage aimed at Israel demanding its surrender will change nothing.
There will be a ceasefire when the last Hamas terrorist the IDF can find has been killed, but not before.

@Humdingerydoo I will never make excuses for what Hamas did and no it was not ok.

However I am allowed to consider that Palestinians have been brutally oppressed for 75 years. When you oppress people, very sadly some will develop extremist ideologies. Look at Northern Ireland terrorists, for example. [This is why I disagree that the current action in Palestine (carpet bombing) will solve the issue of terrorism - I believe it will make it worse in the long run).

Understanding some of the reasons they were radicalised is an important part of learning how to solve the issue.

Not saying anything they did is ok at all. I am disgusted at what they did. I categorically condemn Hamas.

More than happy to support Jewish people who were displaced during the Nakba and their right to return, of course.

I do support both Israelis and Palestinians. I want two states. I want peace. There are posters on here who keep making excuses for Hamas and their actions though and those posters piss me off.