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Conflict in the Middle East

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Original poster

Horrors of violence towards women on October the 7th suppressed

477 replies

mids2019 · 04/12/2023 21:05

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67613153

It looks like the UN may have been reluctant to investigate or highlight the sickening sexual violence committed on October 7th. It also appears some of the hostages may have been abused.

Was this because the horrendous violence doesn't fit in with that purely Palestinians are victims of this ongoing conflict? Are investigations into these crimes because women are viewed as second class citizens or the revelations 'muddy the waters' where some just want to see one side as the victim.

Israeli soldiers hug as they look at pictures of the Nova music festival victims at the site of the festival near Kibbutz Reim

Hamas planned sexual violence as weapon of war - Israeli campaigner

An Israeli campaigner says militants planned acts of sexual violence committed in October's attack.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67613153

OP posts:
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34
Goodornot · 04/12/2023 21:13

Wonder how long it will be before someone comes on and plays it down and makes excuses for it.

It doesn't surprise me that everyone wants to play down Hamas' actions.

So many on here have a new hobby of posting all the pro hamas crap they can find and ignoring anything about the shocking violence these poor women suffered on 07/10.

Original poster
mids2019 · 04/12/2023 21:21

@Goodornot

I agree. The witness statements are sickening and I hope the majority female readership of MN will reflect on the scale and brutality of the crimes committed.

The UN need to investigate thoroughly these crimes and not be pressured by political interference from those wishing there to be just one narrative currently.

I am glad there was a piece in this on Radio 4 where the lawyer in question gave her views quite eloquently. The mass sexual violence is a war crime and should be treated as thus and certainly belies any description of the terrorists as freedom fighters.

OP posts:
Original poster
mids2019 · 04/12/2023 21:24

Some other outlets have more graphic heartrending witness statements that show Hamas do not have an ounce of humanity.

OP posts:
Cherryana · 04/12/2023 21:30

I have been utterly shocked that so many haven’t seemed to recognise or comprehend that Oct 7 was the biggest terrorist attack in our lifetime.

Original poster
mids2019 · 04/12/2023 21:33

@Cherryana

It wasn't just the numbers it was the scale of the depravity that will mark this date out. I just thought a website where male sexual violence against women is continually campaigned against would be a good place to make this point

OP posts:
OhpoorMe · 04/12/2023 21:36

Cherryana · 04/12/2023 21:30

I have been utterly shocked that so many haven’t seemed to recognise or comprehend that Oct 7 was the biggest terrorist attack in our lifetime.

Well probably because for anyone over the age of 22 it wasn't.

DifficultBloodyWoman · 04/12/2023 21:44

OhpoorMe · 04/12/2023 21:36

Well probably because for anyone over the age of 22 it wasn't.

Show quote history

Really?

True in terms of numbers but not true in terms of depravity.

Bombing 3000 civilians is evil.

The systematic individual terrorizing, torture and hostage taking of 2000 civilians is on another level.

Cherryana · 04/12/2023 21:45

9/11 was not on a scale such as 7 Oct.
The concentrated brutality is like nothing I have seen before. I don’t want to get into some vulgar whose pain is greater but for me then, this attack was the most terrible I have been aware of in my lifetime.

Original poster
mids2019 · 04/12/2023 21:48

In terms of the sheer terror (as is terrorism) it is hard to surplant events of October 7th. There was one woman begging for life to be ended having been raped for hours. The Hamas 'fighters' laughed and granted her request. There are no words.

OP posts:
0palfruity · 04/12/2023 21:51

Cherryana · 04/12/2023 21:30

I have been utterly shocked that so many haven’t seemed to recognise or comprehend that Oct 7 was the biggest terrorist attack in our lifetime.

Me too.

pickledandpuzzled · 04/12/2023 21:52

Also the response of Israel, massive and brutal though it is, isn’t a targeted deliberate attack aimed at inflicting terror on civilians.

DifficultBloodyWoman · 04/12/2023 21:53

Goodornot · 04/12/2023 21:13

Wonder how long it will be before someone comes on and plays it down and makes excuses for it.

It doesn't surprise me that everyone wants to play down Hamas' actions.

So many on here have a new hobby of posting all the pro hamas crap they can find and ignoring anything about the shocking violence these poor women suffered on 07/10.

’But it’s ok because the Israelis started it. Rape, torture, genital mutilation, burning people alive…it is all ok if they’re Jewish.’ That is essentially what people are saying.

This is not the Hamas tactics of the seventies and eighties.

Hamas has become ISIS. The rest of the world needs to catch up and realise that.

Original poster
mids2019 · 04/12/2023 21:57

@DifficultBloodyWoman

Yet Hamas laughably deny these things. If these are the actions of the 'Palestinian Resistance' you can absolutely see the reasoning of Israel that this resistance must be removed root and branch.

OP posts:
DirectionToPerfection · 04/12/2023 22:10

pickledandpuzzled · 04/12/2023 21:52

Also the response of Israel, massive and brutal though it is, isn’t a targeted deliberate attack aimed at inflicting terror on civilians.

Oh come on. They know exactly what they're doing and it's barbaric.

And no, that does not mean I condone Hamas and their equally barbaric actions.

DifficultBloodyWoman · 04/12/2023 22:17

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

DifficultBloodyWoman · 04/12/2023 22:30

Unfortunate typo above - that should read

‘destroy every last piece of Palestinian land.’
Unlike some, I don’t seek to annihilate a race.

Parkingt111 · 04/12/2023 22:38

@DifficultBloodyWoman that's certainly a view point we dont hear often. Does it include the Palestinian civilians?

@mids2019 i won't lie if I didn't wonder myself why it has taken so long to do so

Happyvalleyfan · 04/12/2023 22:39

It is so important that the UN investigates these allegations of rape. We need to understand what crimes were committed - not only for the sake of the women, but also because of the outrage caused by 7/10 led to the currently ongoing bombardment of Gaza. We need to understand what happened on that day.

Israel needs to support this though.
From the article:

« However, Israel has not so far co-operated with the commission, viewing it as biased.
Navi Pillay, who chairs the inquiry, said if Tel Aviv did not want to co-operate, her team could still take evidence from survivors and witnesses outside the country.
"All they [Israel] have to do is let us in," she told the BBC, adding that survivors of the attacks should be able to get a UN hearing. »

Toothyfruity · 04/12/2023 22:43

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Happyvalleyfan · 04/12/2023 22:47

It is important that Israel allows the UN to investigate as there is so much disinformation out there, that it is difficult to unpick it all. This works both ways. The Israeli government has been shown to have used a photo from a Kurdish victim previously seen on the internet. This does not help the Israeli victims get justice.

Parkingt111 · 04/12/2023 22:48

@Toothyfruity there's alot more people with views like that than we would like to believe. I don't even get shocked anymore

Parkingt111 · 04/12/2023 22:51

This reply has been deleted

Message repeats a deleted post

Anotherdayanotherdiet · 04/12/2023 22:56

9/11 was not on a scale such as 7 Oct.
The concentrated brutality is like nothing I have seen before. I don’t want to get into some vulgar whose pain is greater but for me then, this attack was the most terrible I have been aware of in my lifetime

October 7 is certainly comparable to 9/11 but it’s not worse. I am not Israeli though. If you are then you may well feel it that way.

I don’t think it should come as a massive surprise to learn the female victims suffered sexual violence but then I’m cynical.

I don’t think anyone has denied it happened. Are you saying it should be reported more? I would imagine at this stage it’s not clear what happened to who or whether anyone wants their experience to be broadcast. I wonder how the woman in the joggers will/would feel about being a literal poster child for violence for example.

There should be some form of investigation but this won’t be able to happen until after the war is over I assume.

Happyvalleyfan · 04/12/2023 23:04

Anotherdayanotherdiet · 04/12/2023 22:56

9/11 was not on a scale such as 7 Oct.
The concentrated brutality is like nothing I have seen before. I don’t want to get into some vulgar whose pain is greater but for me then, this attack was the most terrible I have been aware of in my lifetime

October 7 is certainly comparable to 9/11 but it’s not worse. I am not Israeli though. If you are then you may well feel it that way.

I don’t think it should come as a massive surprise to learn the female victims suffered sexual violence but then I’m cynical.

I don’t think anyone has denied it happened. Are you saying it should be reported more? I would imagine at this stage it’s not clear what happened to who or whether anyone wants their experience to be broadcast. I wonder how the woman in the joggers will/would feel about being a literal poster child for violence for example.

There should be some form of investigation but this won’t be able to happen until after the war is over I assume.

This thread made me think how rape is a weapon of war and now also as propaganda to control the narrative around war. There is a danger this further demeans victims and women as a whole, particularly if there is disinformation.

Sussurations · 04/12/2023 23:04

Some people are denying it - I have seen awful
posts here on Mumsnet saying there is no ‘proof’ that rapes happened.

Owen Jones, who now seems to be positively deranged as well as morally and intellectually bankrupt, has been arguing that there isn’t definitive proof of rapes, and generally downplaying the horror of 7 Oct, certainly implying if not actually stating that it’s some kind of Jewish false flag conspiracy.