Disease could kill more in Gaza than bombs, WHO says amid Israeli siege

[Ohlalalalala]

Disease could kill more in Gaza than bombs, WHO says amid Israeli siege https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/28/disease-could-kill-more-in-gaza-than-bombs-who-says-amid-israeli-siege

Shattered healthcare and sanitation systems must be restored in Gaza, says World Health Organization.

UN official Tor Wennesland warned the humanitarian situation “remains catastrophic”.

Israeli bombardment has killed more than 14,800 Palestinians, including 6,150 children and more than 4,000 women, according to health authorities in the enclave.

@Realisticchange I refer to my post above and most people in the UK support a cease fire. Not at all as you put it: "It is unrealistic to expect them to do anything else. I think most people in the UK agree with this actually, but for some reason it seems to have become something people only say quietly."

I'm not Palestinian so there's no point asking me that question.

Maybe if Israel decides to stop the occupation and blockade that might be starting point for peace.

The destruction, devastation and death go beyond the 1400 killed in Israel by Hamas. Over 20,000 children have been killed, so many with life changing injuries and all those lost in the rubble. This is collective punishment and that responsibility lies with Israel.

I wrote that if a country is attacked by terrorists, then it is naive and unrealistic to think they will not have to respond to deter future attacks @Silence1. I don’t see that generally held view has changed - if the UK were attacked by terrorists then people would expect to be defended.
The terrorists hamas have instigated this particular time of conflict by their actions on 7 October. I hope that one day moderate palestinians who are prepared to make compromises in exchange for peace are in charge and this killing of each other can stop. Equally a moderate government voted in to power in Israel.

There's a moderate Palestinian government in the Occupied West Bank and it doesn't stop state-supported Israeli settlers from harrassing and terrorising them and stealing their land. And killing them. So I don't think that's going to solve the problem for Palestine. Let's face it, it doesn't matter who's in charge, Israel will never let them live in peace.

This is a genuine question @Toothyfruity, I am not trying to provoke you, but do you honestly think that most people living in Israel wouldn’t choose peace if they could? I’m not talking about the religious fanatics (and there are those on both sides) but the normal people who are just making a life for themselves.
We’re lucky in Europe I think to be through those centuries of persecuting and killing each other for different beliefs - well mostly through its not all peace and eg. people in Ukraine are suffering right now. But overall we have peace and freedom of expression and religious tolerance. I think people living in Israel would choose peace over conflict if they could. Why do you think they would choose otherwise?

I never commented on ordinary Israelis in my posts. I'm sure most of them do want to live in peace, same as most Palestinians and most people on the planet.

I was saying that the state of Israel is sanctioning violence and some civilians are taking part in that, i.e. settlers in the West Bank. And this has been going on for decades.

My point is that a peaceful solution might have been possible if the occupation and land grabbing wasn't going on.

@Silence1

I think it is always important to cite links to statements.

So presumably your statement that 58% of Brits supported a cease fire comes from the following article of the 20th October:

new.thecradle.co/articles-id/7835#:~:text=When%20UK%20citizens%20were%20asked,16%20percent%20claiming%20that%20they

Whereas the YouGov poll of the 15th November gave the following results:


Sorry missed the attachment:

You say you support Israel, but I would say anyone who wants peace and prosperity for Israel should be denouncing their current actions. No-one outside Israel seems to think it is a viable strategy for destroying Hamas (never mind the humanitarian aspect) and will only make Israel's situation more perilous both in terms of opposition from Palestinians and other surrounding countries. There is no "quick fix" for Hamas - it's a problem that has been a long time in development and you can't just bomb an ideology into submission. People talk about destroying Hamas's infrastructure but to be honest the 7/10 atrocities required very little - just a few thousand men with guns and motorbikes who were angry and radicalised enough to not have any care for the lives either of Israelis or themselves. Carpet bombing Gaza will not destroy Hamas- it needs a longer term plan with international involvement, targeted counter-terrorist activities and political strategies to offer real alternatives to Palestinians and drive a wedge between civilians and Hamas. The only reason to keep bombing is revenge, or to displace all Gazans.

“We do not give in to terrorists “
Hmm .. didn’t work in Northern Ireland though, did it?

This poster (edit: the poster @gloriagloria is replying to, that is) has, more than once, fairly enthusiastically mentioned using nuclear bombs in Gaza.

I do agree that Israel's actions will do nothing but create further division and hate. It's not the way to bring about peace, nor is it going to eradicate Hamas. As we've seen, those who are suffering are Palestinian civilians - Hamas leaders aren't even in Gaza.

Definitely awful. Starving millions of Palestinians, killing murdering bombing places where small children are so that their intestines are having out and they die a horrible death (I'm talking about what israel are doing) is that not awful? You seem to have not included any acknowledgement of that in your post. How can you say hamas was awful without saying what israel is doing is awful too? Have people lost their logic and minds or are they really that brainwashed that israel had convinced them that Palestinian lives mean nothing?

Irelands National TV station reports today ”.The scars of Israel's ground assault could also be seen in a cemetery in the Al-Faluja neighbourhood of Jabalia, northern Gaza, where passing tanks had churned up the ground, breaking and scattering gravestones and disinterring some corpses”

A new word will have to be created to describe the actions of the Israeli government in Gaza because apologists insist that because civilians are not the intended targets that Israel’s actions are acceptable. That because the trigger for this particular invasion was the Hamas attack, that Hamas is responsible for the booms that the Israelis are dropping which kill civilians.
It’s like saying that police force attacking a school with army weapons and killing classes of children because a school shooter is in the basement somewhere.

Bombing , shooting ,starvation, respiratory illnesses and cold, now were just waiting for disease to finish them off .

How can this barbarism make Israel safe?
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/12/middleeast/gaza-diseases-spread-what-we-know-intl/index.html

Without the support of the US, Israel will become isolated in their approach. Israel is also the biggest beneficiary of US foreign aid.

Apart from the US, the most of the civilised world condemns the bombardment and besiegement of Gaza.
Biden is moving closer to withdrawing support but Netanyahu is in the way out politically. After his intelligence failure and the botched hostage negotiations he’s clinging to war to avoid an election. But this means killing more civilians by violence, starvation or disease and the needless killing of young Israeli soldiers in close combat amongst the mountains of rubble and maze of tunnels.
Disease will take the most vulnerable and the most innocent in this conflict, possibly more than bombardment.

Irelands National TV station reports today ”.The scars of Israel's ground assault could also be seen in a cemetery in the Al-Faluja neighbourhood of Jabalia, northern Gaza, where passing tanks had churned up the ground, breaking and scattering gravestones and disinterring some corpses”
Channel 4 also just reported this* *showed pictures of the graveyard with graves upturned and disinterred, and tank marks all over it. The reporter said "even the dead can't rest in peace in Gaza". No idea what the IDF excuse is for this complete disrespect of the recently killed Gazans, leave them be for Christ's sake you've already killed them what more do you want?

Torrential rain there now with flooding, how much more can people take. God love them it's a cruel cruel unfair world.

Unfortunately although Biden is now calling for an end to the indiscriminate killing of civilians, it appears that Netanyahu is determined to continue the intensive phase of the conflict as he is now almost guaranteed to loose the next election. So Netanyahu wants it to on for months and months and Biden insisting the bombardment and blockade should be eased within a few weeks. The pressure of public opinion seems to be influencing Biden’s approach.

I have worked in refugee health and I’ve seen outbreaks of all kinds-cholera, dysentery, meningitis. Preventing measles is top priority- how can you prevent measles without refrigerated transport and needles and MMR vaccines? Cholera tends to be a disease from untreated drinking water- strangely children often survive only to be orphaned as it can be more severe in adult breadwinners . The diarrhoea is so profuse the patient may have to lie in a type of sling between two poles with a hole over a bucket so the watery diarrhoea just drains. Dysentery is bloody diarrhoea, often painful and is pretty indiscriminate but generally takes the more vulnerable. But even something like rota virus can kill a malnourished child if you can’t hydrate them.

Sorry for being so graphic and I won’t go into mass graves or the smell of gangrene and rotting bodies. I just want people who are reading this from the comfort of their own homes to know that it’s just not ok to say that “Israel is allowed do this because the civilians aren’t the intended target” and “we have to do this or Hamas will get us”

I know a doctor who has recently visited Gaza and I totally concur with his assessment that this catastrophe has a high chance of becoming considerably even more catastrophic, hard as it is to contemplate.

Hopefully things will reach tipping point soon but please, please reach out to anyone with influence who can help to bring an early ceasefire- public opinion really counts, especially in the US and obviously among the Jewish diaspora.

That's a very sobering account of refugee health must be a terribly difficult environment to work in. Thanks for sharing.
I work with IPAS refugees (International Protection Accommodation Services) in Ireland and I don't think people have any idea how traumatised, alone but yet so resilient the people that flee for protection are, and yet they are often faced with racism and contempt when they arrive on European shores.

The local staff face the biggest challenges- so many health workers killled in this conflict 😰
Interesting essay from global health expert Dr Omar Dewachi in New York Times today about about the how this conflict will fuel outbreaks of anti microbial resistant superbugs.

World Health Organisation’s Dr Mike Ryan said today
“What we’re seeing is health systems being targeted. I’ve never seen anything like this before”

@Kindatired I have also worked with refugees in humanitarian crises and completely agree with what you are saying about the risks and particularly the combination of poor nutrition and resurgence of communicable diseases making children incredibly vulnerable. As time goes on there will be more children not vaccinated against measles due to the breakdown of vaccination services, which can have a death rate of around a third in poorly nourished populations. In many conflicts you see far more people die from disease than from violence, and I'm really hoping this won't be the case here. However, I would also add that there is quite a high rate of people with non-communicable diseases in Gaza , many of whom will be relying on drugs that they can no longer obtain. For example there is growing concern for T1 diabetics who cannot get insulin and will not survive without it.

Yes , the trauma of seeing your loved one die for want of something that you can usually pick up in a local pharmacy is just indescribably traumatising. With an unavoidable death, you come to terms so much more easily.
I see on Sky news the drug resistant wound infections have stared to appear. What seems to have happened is that there has been inadequate sanitation and the ground is contaminated with human poo . There was already an antibiotic resistance problem in Gaza. During the bombardment, many people have had open wounds and these got infected. They needed antibiotics and likely most have not finished the course as the supplies of drugs and consumables have run out, not to mention evacuation, lack of hand washing facilities overcrowding and re-admissions due a second injury. I’ve seen pictures of several people sharing a bed or trolley and injured children lying on floor the floor or their relatives camping on the floor.
Floors would be covered with the now antibiotic resistant poo bacteria…
So now the IDF are coming back home with infected war wounds that were contaminated with poo from the people whose toilets and hospitals they just blew up. Some of them can’t be treated with the normal antibiotics and require surgery instead of just injectable treatments. It’s very worrying for anyone with an injury regardless of which side of the conflict they are on and likely those trapped in Gaza are affected to a much greater extent than those diagnosed in fully functioning Israeli hospitals.
https://www.ynetnews.com/health_science/article/s1o5bn3ua

@Kindatired I have shared your last very informative post on the hospital thread.
I hope that is OK