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Conflict in the Middle East

“Pause” ends tomorrow. Anyone else filled with dread ?

466 replies

Desertrose2023 · 27/11/2023 15:28

Just that really. I’ve felt such relief the past couple of days that my phone won’t be filled with a constant stream of murdered Palestinian kids and wailing parents. That all ends tomorrow and I have such a sense of foreboding even though I’m safe and comfortable thousands of miles away. I can’t begin to imagine the dread the Palestinians in Gaza must be feeling tonight knowing their genocide resumes tomorrow. When will it end 😞

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Parkingt111 · 28/11/2023 09:00

And that's because the Palestinians from the occupied West bank don't have the same process of charging as the settlers do

The military judicial system is part of a “separate and unequal” reality. In contrast to Palestinians, Israeli settlers arrested in the West Bank are tried in civilian courts inside Israel. Two populations, two different legal systems – Israel’s largest human rights group is therefore right to call this a form of apartheid.

MercanDede · 30/11/2023 08:50

Good piece in the Guardian today
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/30/west-encourages-killing-of-civilians-in-gaza-says-father-of-murdered-activist
”Western governments are “actively encourag[ing] the killing of women and children” in Gaza, because they are not willing to challenge Israeli accounts of the war there, the father of a British peace activist killed by an Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) sniper has warned.
Anthony Hurndall’s son, Tom Hurndall, was shot in the head in April 2003 in Rafah, while he was helping Palestinian children.

Anthony Hurndall left his job as a City lawyer to work on an investigationinto the shooting and embarked on an international campaign for justice after Israeli authorities initially declined to open an inquiry into the case.
He described himself as “a longstanding supporter of the state of Israel”, but said his work nearly two decades ago exposed a culture of impunity and cover-ups over civilian deaths that he fears is being replicated in attacks on Gaza today.
“The IDF … routinely falsely misrepresent civilians and children as militants, or as armed, and fabricate accounts of events, as a pretext for their killing,” he wrote in a statement about the war.
“These claims appear similar to the claims the IDF are currently making to justify their bombing, missile and other attacks on civilian targets and hospitals in Gaza.”
His meticulous dossier was critical to creating international pressure that led to the arrest and trial of the sniper, who was sentenced to eight years for manslaughter. Hurndall said that Palestinians in Gaza do not have the resources to investigate the death of civilian relatives in the same way.
“Only when confronted with irrefutable evidence, and subjected to the unrelenting pressure of the UK government and press, did [the Israeli military] concede and accept responsibility. Unfortunately, Palestinian civilians do not have the resources or support to protect themselves in this way,” he wrote.
He called on both the UK government and opposition to interrogate Israeli claims about civilian deaths in Gaza more rigorously.
“Western governments and media appear overly willing to accept Israeli accounts and narratives and repeat them,” he wrote. “In doing so they actively encourage the killing of women and children, and are, in my view, themselves complicit in, or at least condoning, the deliberate killing of civilians and war crimes.
“The situation has deteriorated since the time we were involved, as Israeli policy becomes more extreme. I believe the government and opposition in this country should carefully consider their positions over present events and over the situation in Israel and the occupied territories.”
He said he was “a longstanding supporter of the state of Israel” and was reluctant to speak out, and did so only because asked, and in the hope that it would contribute to understanding and resolution.
“I wish Israel a happy, secure and prosperous future, but it needs to abandon policies which destroy the very prospects of such a future,” he added.
The IDF has been contacted for comment.”

West ‘encourages’ killing of civilians in Gaza, says father of activist shot dead by IDF

Anthony Hurndall, whose son was shot by the IDF in 2003, has called on governments to challenge Israeli claims about deaths of women and children

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/30/west-encourages-killing-of-civilians-in-gaza-says-father-of-murdered-activist

Toothyfruity · 30/11/2023 09:34

@MercanDede interesting piece.

Off topic but it was slightly jarring to see that the UK government put pressure on Israel to investigate when they have refused to allow the same process in cases where British soldiers murdered civilians in Northern Ireland. But if this conflict has taught us anything it's that some animals are more equal than others.

MercanDede · 30/11/2023 09:55

Toothyfruity · 30/11/2023 09:34

@MercanDede interesting piece.

Off topic but it was slightly jarring to see that the UK government put pressure on Israel to investigate when they have refused to allow the same process in cases where British soldiers murdered civilians in Northern Ireland. But if this conflict has taught us anything it's that some animals are more equal than others.

I’m afraid the British government is well known for its hypocrisy. If Tom Hurdnall’s father, Anthony were not a City Lawyer, there would have been no access to justice. It’s not just that IDF killed a British aid worker, they killed the wrong British aid worker. An MSF nurse from a working class background would not have gotten the support that Anthony Hurdnall got given both is profession, class and likely associations with MPs.

PeasfullPerson · 30/11/2023 21:36

Thanks for sharing, will be giving this a read. Sounds like this man makes a lot of sense.

Efacsen · 01/12/2023 05:29

@MercanDede is it okay if I 'borrow' that guardian article for the thread about the 9 yr old boy who was killed by IDF a couple of days ago?

It's very much the 'same story' running away from soldiers captured on CCTV no reliable/verified evidence that either he or his 15 yr old companion involved in any wrongdoing- then lots of unpleasant posts saying he/they must have been a terrorist/s so deserved it

And very sadly the ceasefire has now ended

PeasfullPerson · 01/12/2023 07:51

I can’t see any updates on what will happen about getting aid in!

Depdawg · 01/12/2023 07:53

The pause didn't happen for Hamas.

Toothyfruity · 01/12/2023 08:59

I'm so upset that the ceasefire is over. I knew obviously that Israel wanted to resume the slaughter- they've been saying so since the truce was announced - but I'd hoped against hope that someone would see sense and stop this madness.

God help everyone in Gaza.

ChickHenLittle · 01/12/2023 09:06

Toothyfruity · 01/12/2023 08:59

I'm so upset that the ceasefire is over. I knew obviously that Israel wanted to resume the slaughter- they've been saying so since the truce was announced - but I'd hoped against hope that someone would see sense and stop this madness.

God help everyone in Gaza.

Agreed. I wasn't surprised when I saw they had started attacking Gaza again, sadly, but had hoped the bloodthirstiness had disappeared. This will be a shameful moment in history when we look back and wonder why the hell no-one(in power) did anything to stop them.

XRAYTHIS · 01/12/2023 09:11

Toothyfruity · 01/12/2023 08:59

I'm so upset that the ceasefire is over. I knew obviously that Israel wanted to resume the slaughter- they've been saying so since the truce was announced - but I'd hoped against hope that someone would see sense and stop this madness.

God help everyone in Gaza.

I imagine the missile fired into Israel an hour before ceasefire due to end didn't help. Together with the terrorist attack at the bus stop killing Israeli people and the young boy being shot it's awful. So many lives lost. Was hoping it would be extended.

Humdingerydoo · 01/12/2023 09:11

I take it people missed the part where Hamas were gathering civilians in Khan Younis yesterday to make sure they had their human shields nice and ready for when Hamas broke the ceasefire? Do you think Israel should just let Hamas fire rockets at Israel without any retaliation whatsoever? Did you also miss the part yesterday where Hamas called 7th October a rehearsal? But Israel are the bloodthirsty ones 🤦🏻‍♀️

Toothyfruity · 01/12/2023 09:13

Are we allowed be sad for 5 minutes that thousands of people are about to die?

Parkingt111 · 01/12/2023 09:15

@Humdingerydoo where did you see the gathering civilians in Khan younis? Iv tried to look for it but I can't see it reported anywhere
Thanks

Parkingt111 · 01/12/2023 09:17

I should clarify as everything is so tense today that its a genuine question not an attack or anything @Humdingerydoo

Humdingerydoo · 01/12/2023 09:33

Parkingt111 · 01/12/2023 09:15

@Humdingerydoo where did you see the gathering civilians in Khan younis? Iv tried to look for it but I can't see it reported anywhere
Thanks

It was all over the Israeli news yesterday. I watched it live at my in laws house, so I don't have links right now. Sorry. No one I know in Israel was surprised that fighting resumed today, the signs were all there.

I'll repeat it again as I don't think I've said it on this thread - I don't want war. I don't want more death and destruction. I'm just so incredibly fed up with Israel getting the blame for absolutely everything. Hamas break a truce and it's Israel's fault.

Take time to be sad in peace and quiet. But if you truly wanted peace and quiet, inflammatory and accusatory language wouldn't have been used.

That last part is for toothyfruity, who I won't tag as they've asked for a moment to be sad. Which is perfectly fine and understandable.

Parkingt111 · 01/12/2023 09:40

@Humdingerydoo thank you. I did Google but I couldn't see it reported anywhere else which is why I asked
And yes I know you don't want war
No one is winning here sadly

Toothyfruity · 01/12/2023 09:47

Humdingerydoo · 01/12/2023 09:33

It was all over the Israeli news yesterday. I watched it live at my in laws house, so I don't have links right now. Sorry. No one I know in Israel was surprised that fighting resumed today, the signs were all there.

I'll repeat it again as I don't think I've said it on this thread - I don't want war. I don't want more death and destruction. I'm just so incredibly fed up with Israel getting the blame for absolutely everything. Hamas break a truce and it's Israel's fault.

Take time to be sad in peace and quiet. But if you truly wanted peace and quiet, inflammatory and accusatory language wouldn't have been used.

That last part is for toothyfruity, who I won't tag as they've asked for a moment to be sad. Which is perfectly fine and understandable.

I assume by inflammatory language you mean my use of the word "slaughter".

It is slaughter.

Parkingt111 · 01/12/2023 09:48

Just on a side note I have read on sky that despite the fighting starting again Qatar and Egypt are still continuing with efforts to negotiate a further truce/ceasefire so it could still happen again
Hopefully

Humdingerydoo · 01/12/2023 09:53

Toothyfruity · 01/12/2023 09:47

I assume by inflammatory language you mean my use of the word "slaughter".

It is slaughter.

That and the other poster accusing Israel of being bloodthirsty. But I'll leave you alone. I've said my piece. I don't feel the need to make my point again, it won't help anyone and will just further antagonise people who don't want to hear it.

I hope things don't escalate further and that another ceasefire can be arranged.

Ixxy1980 · 01/12/2023 09:55

According to BBC talks are still ongoing even though the ceasefire has ended so hopefully it won’t take weeks this time to come to another agreement. It’s horrifying how Hamas can care so little for their own people, I don’t think they care how many people die on either side. Apparently civilians in Gaza have been told to move to Rafah at the Egyptian border. Hopefully the IDF will actually give them time to do this before they start bombing!

The link is recent footage from this morning of a young family moving away from Israeli tanks, nothing graphic for those who don’t like to click on links but still heart-breaking nonetheless.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0TVihwNJ3m/?igshid=ODhhZWM5NmIwOQ==

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0TVihwNJ3m/?igshid=ODhhZWM5NmIwOQ==

Parkingt111 · 01/12/2023 09:59

@Ixxy1980 the issue is that despite being asked to move to Rafah, there has been strikes in Rafah too since this morning
So It's not really safe to move there either

MrsSkylerWhite · 01/12/2023 09:59

I really don’t understand why the IDF is ordered to resume when so many Israeli hostages are still at risk. Their families must be beyond desperate/furious.

Does Netanyahu have support from the general population?

notimagain · 01/12/2023 10:12

@MrsSkylerWhite

I really don’t understand why the IDF is ordered to resume when so many Israeli hostages are still at risk.

Well it maybe might be worth asking HAMAS, not the IDF, why the return of hostages appeared to be drying up...there are actually some quite grim possibilities.

In any event I'm sure the resumption will all be the IDF''s fault, despite the HAMAS sponsored attack at a bus stop yesterday and several instances of rockets being fired towards the Israeli civilian population in the early hours of this morning.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/30/jerusalem-bus-stop-shooting-attack-killed-injured

Hamas claims responsibility for deadly Jerusalem bus stop shooting

Two men, reportedly brothers from East Jerusalem, shot dead at scene after attack that killed three people

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/30/jerusalem-bus-stop-shooting-attack-killed-injured

MrsSkylerWhite · 01/12/2023 10:16

notimagain · Today 10:12

@MrsSkylerWhite

I really don’t understand why the IDF is ordered to resume when so many Israeli hostages are still at risk.

Well it maybe might be worth asking HAMAS, not the IDF, why the return of hostages appeared to be drying up...there are actually some quite grim possibilities.

In any event I'm sure the resumption will all be the IDF''s fault, despite the HAMAS sponsored attack at a bus stop yesterday and several instances of rockets being fired towards the Israeli civilian population in the early hours of this morning.”
**
I don’t care whose fault it is. It has to stop. On both sides, it’s innocent civilians who are suffering.
All wars end with talk. The rest of the world has to impose talks and demand a ceasefire.

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