“Pause” ends tomorrow. Anyone else filled with dread ?

[Desertrose2023]

Just that really. I’ve felt such relief the past couple of days that my phone won’t be filled with a constant stream of murdered Palestinian kids and wailing parents. That all ends tomorrow and I have such a sense of foreboding even though I’m safe and comfortable thousands of miles away. I can’t begin to imagine the dread the Palestinians in Gaza must be feeling tonight knowing their genocide resumes tomorrow. When will it end 😞

This.

open terrorist organisation which is wholly opposed to the western way of life

Also, in no way condoning, but I'm pretty sure they are opposed to zionism and the illegal takeover of Palestinian land and lives vs "the western way of life" - where are you getting your info from? These are Clickybait headlines.

@Lifesd

You have written these two sentences

Pretty sure as well the UK has indulged in practices that don’t comply with international law and I’m glad they have

And later..

No they aren’t

So first you said you are glad UK has broken international law
When given examples, you said no they aren't right

Which one is it? Can you clarify please?

Also you say:

I’ve no skin in this game but I don’t paint it as black and white as the warped posters on these boards seem too.

I cant speak for everyone ofc, but majority of the pro ceasefire posters on here are pretty shades of grey, all saying things around:

Palestinians have a right to exist and to have equal rights, peace and justice on their land
Jewish people have a right to exist and to a homeland
There are extremists on both sides
Condemning illegal encroachment of Palestinian land, indiscrimate taking of life (pre Oct 7th), apartheid legal system and the genocide post Oct 7th
Condemning Hamas, hostage taking and the taking of innocent life

Doesn't look like black and white to me - also, who are you referring to when you use the word warped posters?

No, it should not be a race to the bottom.

Never have I ever said it was okay to take Israeli civilians hostage - because that is not okay!

What I did indeed say - and this I shall stand by - is: it is also not okay when you kidnap children (and everyone else), claim they are "terrorists", or "security threats", or whatever ...

... and then you put them in a military court with a ~100% conviction rate and, at the very best, they get a sorry excuse for "legal representation" in the shape of some crony who works for this very court, and at worst none at all.

Or, alternatively, you just imprison people as "administrative detainees", a.k.a. people languish in prisons and they do not even get the chance to defend themselves in one of those sham kangaroo courts that would have convicted them anyway. But they do not even get that level of "pretence to due process".

You can shout "but it is different!" all day long!

If it is so very different, if it is so very justified and definitely not "state sanctioned hostage taking, cloaked in the terminology of a state" ... if that is true: pray, do tell me what happened on the West Bank during the last week? Why were as many Palestinians arrested and imprisoned as released? From what I gather: mostly what happened was: settlers terrorised villagers and the IDF terrorised Tulkarem and Jenin. Why were Palestinians "rightfully" "imprisoned" (not "taken hostage"), not settlers or IDF commanders?

Why, though?

Is she actually threatening with a nuclear bomb on Gaza?
Didn’t an Israeli politician* *actually suggest that? though I think they sacked him. Perhaps even extremists have limits. Or maybe they just realised they’d be practically bombing their own country.

@Anotherdayanotherdiet , I think they were just trying to see how low they could go with inflammatory comments. They have proven to us all that there are simply no depths to which they will plummet to drive Palestinians out and the world has responded with a shrug of the shoulders and carried on regardless. Its all completely bonkers.

Once again the IDF leaflets and announcements cannot be trusted by Gazan civilians. This has been a problem for the entirety of IDF’s military incursion into Gaza.

IDF called on civilians including dropping leaflets starting at 9:30am on 2 December telling civilians to go to Rafah, and 16hrs later, at 1:30am their time while they are all sleeping, the IDF is now bombing residential buildings in Rafah.

Not seeing any effort to avoid civilian deaths whatsoever.

And this is why many will refuse to move. Not because Hamas is forcing them not to move but because they’re fed up of moving and feeling there is no safe place. If they have to die they’ll prefer to day at home than somewhere they don’t know or be cold for days without food access

Israel need to finish this organisation:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12819673/The-sickening-horrors-endured-Hamas-terrified-hostages-kidnapped-Israeli-women-children-drugged-starved-shot-threatened-violence-spoke-held-inferno-finally-released-49-days.html

Well done to the RAF for assisting:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12819769/RAF-conduct-unarmed-surveillance-flights-Middle-East-search-dungeons-Hamas-keeping-kidnapped-civilians-hostage.html

The road to heaven is severely traffic jammed

And where would they move to? The IDF are lying as to where is safe to travel to.

"There are fears of mounting civilian casualties after Israel dropped leaflets warning residents to leave the southern part of the strip where two million people - almost the entire Gazan population - are based following instructions at the outset of the IDF ground invasion to leave the north of the enclave."

First leave the north, now leave the south. Where are they to go?

It's heart-breaking but get out on the streets protesting to Hamas to release the hostages AND NOT KILLING THEM!!!

Can I ask, for those who are backing the ongoing attacks from Israel under the guide of 'eradicating Hamas' at what point do you deem their campaign a success and at what point would you consider they have hone too far?

With more powerful members not living in Gaza, and their very existence born out of resistance to occupation how is Israel actually going to achieve their goal with the method they have chosen?

Surely the prolonged attacks are making Israelis more unsafe, more likely to face retaliation whilst also creating a generation of traumatised children who may well be the perfect candidate for violent retribution in years to come.

@Wale90 is this ' born out of resistance' www.hrw.org/news/2007/06/12/gaza-armed-palestinian-groups-commit-grave-crimes

Murdering their rivals in Gaza.....

Weird that....

Executed a rival and dragged his body through a refugee camp... www.reuters.com/article/idUSL14749263/

This was on channel 4 instagram page

Trigger warning. For those who don't want to watch it is of a young boy who helped to dig his dead brother from the rubble of an Israeli airstrike. He is covered in dust and angry crying. He wants to be buried with his brother

When I see things like this I wonder if these children will grow up to want peace or revenge. There's no easy answers but the longer this goes on the more I see the cycle of violence continuing

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0ZoSNDMy2U/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Just on the back of @Wale90 s question - how will you know Israel has achieved success and/or gone too far?
With a "game of battlefield" in Gaza, with Gazans squeezed into increasingly small spaces with constant bombardment, I'm wondering when it will be the right time to be over? Till they are all dead? Or gone out of Gaza for Israel to create its newest city?

I have seen the strikes in Khan younis today.
It's where most of the displaced from the North moved to
At the end of this war Gaza will be more or less rubble and the civilians dead or injured, homeless and traumatised
And I don't think Israel will be any safer than it was at the start of the war

@Chaitales maybe ask Mark
regev that. I am not an official spokesperson for Israel

Or as an individual. Lots of us coming on here to give our opinions and support for either side and engaging in dialogue, asking each other questions to understand and debate (hopefully respectfully) - ofcourse we can choose to answer something or not. I'm curious that as an individual, when does one find the line between "self defense" and "it's gone too far"? Or is the support unconditional?

You don't have to answer - just part of an ongoing conversation

@Chaitales thank you for the respectful answer. I am going to give some thought to my response if ok but I will get Back to you.

@stomachameleon I know we often have differing opinions and have disagreed in the past (although we have always both been against civilians suffering as part of this conflict), but I've found your responses to be very measured and insightful and am also interested in hearing different viewpoints.
Likewise, I hope I can give such a response if anyone ever wants to hear a different perspective.