Detainees, Truce and Agreements *title altered at OP's request*

[stormy4319trevor]

Continuing broad discussion of the release of detainees, hostages and prisoners and the agreements around this.

There is also a real possibility some of the hostages and their captors are among the estimated 7,000 missing people buried under the rubble of the bombings.

I think Albanese's view is valuable context @BabaBarrio It is true that the regime in the OT has been brutal. I think it's fine to say that, while also caring for ordinary people attacked on Oct 7th.

Especially children who were held hostage alone, like Emily Hand
I was honestly bracing myself for her to be dead. So pleased to see her re-united with her father. You shouldn’t do that to a child. Bad enough to do it to adults.

It’s part of the truce. Nethanyu agreed to only release Palestinians after each group of hostages reach Israel and have had their identity verified. As much as he gets criticised, this is something that I’m not critical of at all. It’s right for Israel to be cautious.

I was too. We try and protect children from this and it’s been heartbreaking seeing all the trauma to Israeli and Palestinian children.

There is also a real possibility some of the hostages and their captors are among the estimated 7,000 missing people buried under the rubble of the bombings.

Certainly possible.

Some suspected getting the hostages back was not really Netanyahu’s priority. Like the hostages families for a start..

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/26/survival-scandal-a-secret-cell-how-the-nail-biting-israel-hamas-hostage-deal-was-done

Interesting idea. However it doesn't explain how they don't know who took them on 7th October. The hostages were taken and they don't know for sure how many apart from what Israel tell them according to them. They originally said they only had soldiers etc

Even though I have no doubt some hostages could have been killed in bombing. They had time before the bombing to work out who they had and where they were being kept. This means they either didn't care about the children hostages and women or they are lying now. One or the other because what they are saying doesn't add up. Qatar seems to have a similar view to myself on this matter and they are talking with Hamas to negotiate.

Thank you. I am catching up on the thread, and thought I’d add it as I missed a bit of the detention discussion. Francesca Albanese is the the UN expert. She is a human rights lawyer specialising in international law including war crimes. So when she says something is an apartheid system, she is speaking not as a journalist, or an activist, or a politician but as an expert who has degree level qualifications and an entire career in the area.

Interesting idea. However it doesn't explain how they don't know who took them on 7th October. The hostages were taken and they don't know for sure how many apart from what Israel tell them according to them. They originally said they only had soldiers etc

If you ask me it’s unlikely Hamas don’t know where the other hostages are. Either they’re dead and Hamas doesn’t want to admit it or they’re holding them back.

Are you sure they had time? There was only two hours between when Hamas first went into Israel and Israel started bombarding Gaza. Israeli military said at 7:40am (04:40 GMT) that Palestinian fighters had crossed into Israel. At 9:45am (06:45 GMT) blasts were heard in Gaza and at 10am (07:00 GMT) Israel’s military spokesperson said the air force was carrying out attacks in Gaza.

All released hostages we have heard accounts from have reported it taking a lot more than two hours from attack to them being forcibly transported from Israel into Gaza.

So when was all this time?

It has always been clear getting rid of Hamas is first priority, then hostages is second and finally making sure Israel has more security long term

I have no idea why people debate this. He has said what his prioritise are over and over again.

If he negotiated with Hamas too softly over hostages then he would have endangered more civilians long term too. No government will negotiate if it means you put more civilians at risk of kidnapping in the long run. He is playing the long game. This conflict will go on for months yet according to him. They won't leave Gaza in the next year at least from what he says.

I think people need to understand what his third priority is and what it actually means. Israel doesn't mind looking like the bad guys so long as they have more security long term. How that is planned to happen is the question.

The first lot of bombing was at lurcher that started firing at Israel during the pogrom. So before Israel even started firing back. Gaza is well used to this and so are Hamas. In truth they had two days before any real target hit or damage was done.

You do get that you are making excuses for Hamas about not knowing where they hid kidnapped children or about them lying about not knowing, don't you?

The time scales are interesting @BabaBarrio I can imagine it being chaotic.

You do get that you are making excuses for Hamas about not knowing where they hid kidnapped children or about them lying about not knowing, don't you?

I think the poster is saying that it was chaotic, civilians and other militant groups probably broke through as well - maybe took captives. I don't know either. I think it would be hard to hide anything in such a small space as Gaza, but you are assuming something I think not intended?

Despite the fact that Hamas has only suffered a few phone blackouts people think they can't somehow communicate with each other and other groups

For a start the tunnels are wired up to old phone lines. This means they can still communicate even when the mobile networks are switched off on them. Also the tunnels don't have much of a phone signal in places anyway

Love the excuses being made for the fact they claim they don't know where children that were kidnapped are. Amazing that people try to blame this on IDF. I mean lots of things you can blame IDF for but this one is squarely on Hamas.

I get what you are saying but it just doesn't add up. Especially after everything Qatar has been saying and implying about the negotiations too

It has always been clear getting rid of Hamas is first priority, then hostages is second and finally making sure Israel has more security long term

I have no idea why people debate this. He has said what his prioritise are over and over again

Well it may be his priority now, it certainly hasn’t been for the past decade or so.

Could I ask you to follow the link to the Israeli military announcement. They were bombing Gaza from the air two hours after Hamas set foot in Israel according to their own reports. This is not some other bombing being fired at Israel and there were not “two days” of time as you are wierdly rewriting history. Israel would not sit on their hands for two days after such an attack.

You said the fact that some could be among the missing doesn’t explain why they didn’t know where everyone was after their attack on Oct 7th because “they had time before the bombing”.

According to Israel, no they did not have this time. I know you tend to believe Israel over any other source, so why is it you cannot believe them this time? Why would Israel say they’d starting bombing on Oct 7th at 9:45am local time when according to you, it was really two days later? Why would the world all have footage of both the Hamas attacks and the start of the Gaza bombing with the date and time showing this is what happened.

I am only saying what happened as you seemed to be rewriting history. That is not making excuses for anyone, especially not Hamas.

Yes that is my point, it was very chaotic on Oct 7th. There have been a lot of unknowns from the 7th. 1,405 dead revised down to 1200 dead weeks later because Hamas fighters were counted as Israeli victims. Emily Hand reported dead, but very much alive and safely home. One of the Thai hostages, he was also reported by IDF as dead and his body recovered, but him too very much alive and now safely home. Was Israel lying to inflate the number of victims? No. It was chaos. It took weeks for them to untangle things. The chaos of war applies to everyone in a war zone, Hamas isn’t immune to it. A possibility is a possibility.

If you look at the targets announced and hit in the first couple of days they are missile lurching sites. Just look at news reports and IDF announcements.

Whether you agree with me or not it doesn't matter. They clearly didn't start knocking out big targets or doing serious damage until after the other Arab leaders, PO and politicians had met with them and all spoke hand on it. Israel are not stupid the more friendly Arab leaders and PO had to come to an agreement with them about Hamas before they really went in full guns as it were. The timeline on this if you were watching has been very clear.

I’m sorry but you’ve gone from stating things as if they were facts: “they had time before the bombing” that I have fact checked as not true to stating things as facts that no one can fact check. How would you even begin to know Hamas has only had a few phone blackouts including these landlines? Do you have a mole in Hamas? This is not verifiable.

I haven’t said a word of blame or who is at fault, kindly do not ascribe those things to me.

Yes the timeline has been very clear and it is clear who was not remembering Oct 7th’s timeline or what was destroyed.

Not just Hamas but all of Gaza as reported in all the media about phone blackouts. That is a fact. Sorry I figured everyone knew about the phone blackouts

Like I said this doesn't make a difference to them because the tunnels are fitted with old fashioned phone lines. This is so Israel can't stop them from communicating and because the tunnels don't always have a signal

You are over looking the fact that they knew that they would attack and take hostages on the 7th October.

They knew Israel would retaliate on the 7th October when they started firing rockets at Israel

The first lot of hostages said they had everything set up and planned about how the hostages were cared for in advance and which Hamas fighters were paid to look after them etc

This was not chaotic or a surprise to Hamas. Hamas already knew this was coming and what would happen in those first few days. However what happens after the Arabs leaders met with Israel and since then I think is way more than Hamas thought possible

Please link to these Qatar statements. I cannot recall them saying anything like this.

Not just Hamas but all of Gaza as reported in all the media about phone blackouts. That is a fact. Sorry I figured everyone knew about the phone blackouts

But that didn’t happen at the start of the war did it? I remember that being about a week and a half in.