Detainees, Truce and Agreements *title altered at OP's request*

[stormy4319trevor]

Continuing broad discussion of the release of detainees, hostages and prisoners and the agreements around this.

According to the UN, just over 75% of Gaza's population - some 1.7 million people - were already registered refugees before Israel warned Palestinians to leave northern Gaza.

Palestinian refugees are defined by the UN as people whose "place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 War". The children of Palestinian refugees are also able to apply for refugee status.

A lot of the camps in Gaza ended up being made into permanent residences over the years. Many still carry and pass down the keys to their homes. Now they are being displaced again and effectively asked to run from area to area to try and avoid being bombed.

I wonder will they ever be able to return back to their homes in Gaza?

@Rachna83 I think Gaza is going to be very difficult to live in if Israel continues destroying infrastructure and housing. It is awful for the people. Biden has urged that people are not expelled or forced out of Gaza, so there is some hope there. Whether the Israeli government will listen is another matter, but I suppose the US does give them quite a lot of money and diplomatic support - so they should have some influence.

I feel the U.S. may be saying one thing to the public and another behind closed doors to Israel. Otherwise, why isn’t Israel listening to their biggest ally? You would think that they would not want a break between them and the US.

With regards Israel dropping leaflets to let civilians know which area's are being bombed next....how can they expect to kill hamas if they are telling hamas where they will be bombing??

That’s something I keep thinking. They wanted to get Hamas below the hospital. But everyone knew they were by the hospitals and they were going to attack them. Sure they’d have taken the hostages and go somewhere else ?

Yes that was my thought too. In the north what did they achieve through the bombing. All I could see was massive damage to the infrastructure and civilian casualties as well as mass displacement. Hostages got released through negotiation not military action.

The leaflets can’t be trusted. Israel has said go here or there and then bombs where they tell civilians to go. The leaflets they dropped today saying go to Rafah, they did this while they were bombing Rafah (again).

Israel is convinced Hamas is embedded within civilians. So I think this is a way to try and use this against Hamas. It has failed to kill many Hamas fighters while killing over 15,000 civilians, so they should reassess their human shield assumption and change tactics.

I think they have gained control of the north and managed to clear a lot of people from there. They are now pushing people south towards Rafah border with Egypt. I suppose some politicians might think that's a win for the bombing campaign. One of them wanted to nuke Gaza, I think, and of course Netanyahu does not want a Palestinian state, so taking control of Gaza would be necessary in his eyes.

Once again the IDF leaflets and announcements cannot be trusted by Gazan civilians. This has been a problem for the entirety of IDF’s military incursion into Gaza.

IDF called on civilians including dropping leaflets starting at 9:30am on 2 December telling civilians to go to Rafah, and 16hrs later, at 1:30am their time while they are all sleeping, the IDF is now bombing residential buildings in Rafah.

Not seeing any effort to avoid civilian deaths whatsoever.

Just seen this on Twitter from someone that was posting Hamas’ statement

“We have proposed the handover of the elderly over 60 years in exchange for the release of our prisoners over 60.”

are there many over 60s still hostage?

The exact figures are always sketchy - neither the Israeli government nor Hamas have been entirely straightforward about how many hostages and who they are

PP on the Israeli hostages thread were keeping a tally by looking at the Hostages & Missing Families website and info published by Haaretz combined with official Israeli announcements

So that's probably the best place to look

Does anyone follow Bisan on instagram? She’s posted an update saying she fears she is near death as she is so ill.

16 over 60s I think although a number of them have been reported dead in recent days.

@Efacsen Qatar played a vital role in the negotiations and hostage release.

I'm not sure how they must have taken it that less than hours after Israel called Mossad officials back the Qatari sponsored complex in Khan younis was attacked with several strikes reducing large parts of it into rubble.

@Kaffeebitte I do
It looks terrible
Most people have accepted that they will probably die

@Parkingt111 I saw the complex being destroyed on twitter before I realised who had built them and the significance of that - they were architecturally lovely buildings quite apart from them housing people whose homes had previously been destroyed by IDF

Israel understandably has mixed feelings about Qatar but the destruction within minutes of pulling out of the hostage negotiations looked like sheer spite

Israel's PM approached UAE at the COP28 meeting sounding them out about a possible mediation role the day before pulling out of the negotiations so maybe felt there was nothing to lose wrt destroying Qatars prized development

Don't know if Hamas would agree to mediation by UAE

Also Qatar are supposed to be the best mediators in the world - not least because they have such good contacts with very dis-reputable people and organisations

Oops Emir of Qatar threatening to stop supplying Israel with oil/gas - don't know if that's an empty threat

Interesting. Seems like the tenuous good will that helped mediation is strained.

As soon as I saw that complex being destroyed to rubble the moments negotiations were over I knew it was going to escalate

It seemed to me as a way of saying 'thanks but no thanks'
And I'm sure the Qataris didn't take to it too kindly
I can't see them being willing to put in the effort for negotiations now and the UAE definitely won't have the same pressure or effect even if they did try.

@Parkingt111 Maybe it was wishful thinking, but I thought they might pause again and try to get more hostages released soon. It doesn't look like it at the moment.

I see the IDF say they have destroyed around 500 tunnel shafts by detonation or sealing. I'm slightly puzzled. I thought they would be trying to find hostages in the tunnels.

@stormy4319trevor aren't the RAF doing that?
@Parkingt111 although they have mediated I don't doubt Israel is suspicious of their intentions whilst they have multi millionaire terrorists on their soil.