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Conflict in the Middle East

Detainees, Truce and Agreements *title altered at OP's request*

971 replies

stormy4319trevor · 26/11/2023 15:49

Continuing broad discussion of the release of detainees, hostages and prisoners and the agreements around this.

OP posts:
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stormy4319trevor · 03/12/2023 15:10

@Stomacharmeleon Yes, I don't know if they can detect human presence in tunnels from the air. It's possible and I certainly hope so.

OP posts:
Parkingt111 · 03/12/2023 15:24

@Stomacharmeleon whatever they think it's a sure way to shoot yourself in the foot before all the hostages have been released.

It's also incredibly cruel
Those were beautiful buildings that they destroyed to rubble including civilian homes.

stomachameleon · 03/12/2023 15:40

@Parkingt111 well it certainly sends a message. Thing is none of us are privy to what goes on during negotiations or why Israel withdrew so quickly.

I could surmise many things but we just don't know.

Rachna83 · 03/12/2023 15:58

Some of the ones I follow on Instagram if you want to gain a perspective of what it is like for the civilians in Gaza:

motaz_azaiza
Byplestia
Wizard_bisan1

There are more which I will add but these are the ones I know off the top of my head. A big part of the Israeli campaign has been to take away the humanity of the Palestinians and reduce them to human shields or collateral casualties.

Parkingt111 · 03/12/2023 16:03

@Stomacharmeleon whatever it is, things have gone from bad to worse

I have my speculations what I think they must have requested which Qatar turned down
But I won't say it as all speculations. In time it will probably all come out

Parkingt111 · 03/12/2023 16:06

If it is true

MercanDede · 03/12/2023 16:09

Efacsen · 03/12/2023 12:18

Also Qatar are supposed to be the best mediators in the world - not least because they have such good contacts with very dis-reputable people and organisations

They were asked to do so by the US CIA. The US understands the importance of diplomacy and the need to keep communication open. Even during the Cold War, after the Cuban missile crisis, US and USSR opened and kept direct lines of communication, all the better ensure nuclear war could be averted.

MercanDede · 03/12/2023 16:15

It does look like spite to bomb the homes Qatar built for refugees from Israel’s last bombing of Gaza hours after flouncing off from the negotiations table in Qatar. Israel is not only alienating Qatar, but also the US by doing so. Qatar has been mediating between all stakeholders, which includes communicating with Hamas, at the request of and with the full support of the US.

Efacsen · 04/12/2023 06:37

Don't think it's been mentioned but Hamas also flounced off from the negotiations the same day as Israel

Won't be coming back unless bombardment stops

Seem to remember this happening before and then they quietly and without fanfare returned

The mediators must have the patience of saints to be dealing with these people over so many weeks

Efacsen · 04/12/2023 06:55

ICRC chief to visit Gaza Strip

Mirjana Spoljaric Egger, president of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), is set to visit the Gaza Strip

This is part of their on-going campaign to get Hamas to let them do welfare checks on the remaining hostages - previously they've been in contact with Hamas in Qatar

Efacsen · 04/12/2023 07:05

US not giving up on the hostages thank goodness

Blinken talks with Qatari PM about release of Hamas captives, boosting aid to Gaza

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken has held discussions with Qatari Prime Minister Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani about the situation in Gaza.

“Spoke with Qatari Prime Minister Al Thani about ongoing efforts to facilitate the safe return of all hostages and further increase levels of aid to civilians in Gaza,” Blinken said in a post on X on Sunday evening.

Weirdly referred to as 'Hamas captives' rather than hostages as it's AJ reporting the phonecall and tweet

Efacsen · 04/12/2023 07:45

Apologies for the early morning spamming - this piece is about how Israel is still trying to clarify who amongst the hostages has died

''Israel has been declaring some of the missing as dead in captivity, a measure designed to grant anxious relatives some closure, Reuters reports. The news agency writes:

A three-person medical committee has been poring over videos from the 7 October rampage by Hamas-led Palestinian gunmen in southern Israel for signs of lethal injuries among those abducted, and cross-referencing with the testimony of hostages freed during a week-long Gaza truce that ended on Friday.

That can suffice to determine that a hostage has died, even if no doctor has formally pronounced this over his or her body, said Hagar Mizrahi, a Health Ministry official who heads the panel created in response to a crisis now in its third month.

“Designation of death is never an easy matter, and certainly not in the situation embroiling us,” she told Israel’s Kan radio. Her committee, she said, addresses “the desire of the families of loved ones abducted to Gaza to know as much as possible”.

Of some 240 people kidnapped, 108 were freed by Hamas in return for the release by Israel of scores of Palestinian detainees as well as boosted humanitarian aid shipments to Gaza.

Since the truce, Israeli authorities have declared seven civilians and an army colonel as dead in captivity. Israel says 137 hostages remain in Gaza, their condition not always known.

This has not been confirmed by Hamas. It has previously said dozens of hostages were killed in Israeli airstrikes, has threatened to execute hostages itself and suggested that some hostages were in the hands of other armed Palestinian factions.

Hostages have been kept incommunicado despite Israel’s calls on the Red Cross to arrange visits and verify their wellbeing.

Mizrahi said she and her fellow panelists – a forensic pathologist and a physical trauma clinician – have been watching clips shot by the Hamas attackers themselves, cellphone video by Palestinian spectators and CCTV footage of the hostage-taking “again and again, frame by frame”.

That has allowed them to map out life-threatening wounds and spot any cessation of breathing or other essential reflexes.

Additional considerations have been hostages’ rough handling by captors, the reduced chances of them getting adequate medical care in Gaza and accounts of deaths by former fellow hostages.

Parkingt111 · 04/12/2023 08:04

Efacsen · 04/12/2023 06:55

ICRC chief to visit Gaza Strip

Mirjana Spoljaric Egger, president of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), is set to visit the Gaza Strip

This is part of their on-going campaign to get Hamas to let them do welfare checks on the remaining hostages - previously they've been in contact with Hamas in Qatar

This is interesting, I'm wondering how it will play out in terms of logistics
Surely the fighting would have to stop or there's a real chance he could be killed

Efacsen · 04/12/2023 08:31

Even if he could safely enter Gaza - how would he be able to speak/meet anyone from Hamas with the current hyper-surveillance

Hamas didn't risk IRC doing welfare checks during the ceasefire breaching the ceasefire agreement so seems unlikely it'll be possible now with all eyes and ears trying to locate the hostages

Parkingt111 · 04/12/2023 09:02

@Efacsen yes I can't see it happening with the current situation. There may be a slight possibility if there is a another truce negotiated

I just read that Hamas have now said that no hostages will be released unless there is a permanent ceasefire

Trulywonderful · 04/12/2023 09:05

Efacsen · 04/12/2023 06:37

Don't think it's been mentioned but Hamas also flounced off from the negotiations the same day as Israel

Won't be coming back unless bombardment stops

Seem to remember this happening before and then they quietly and without fanfare returned

The mediators must have the patience of saints to be dealing with these people over so many weeks

Very true

I saw an interview with one where he was positively rolling his eyes at the behaviour of both parties. All whilst not saying anything that could upset either

Efacsen · 04/12/2023 09:14

Trulywonderful · 04/12/2023 09:05

Very true

I saw an interview with one where he was positively rolling his eyes at the behaviour of both parties. All whilst not saying anything that could upset either

See also Egyptian officials making neutral statements about the shenanigans around keeping the Rafah crossing open - through gritted teeth

Trulywonderful · 04/12/2023 09:26

I have been fairly impressed so far about how Egypt has handled things politically and with the crossing

Really wasn't expecting them to be sounding as reasonable as they have done

I get some people are upset that they won't just open the crossing and let anyone through but it doesn't work like that does it. Plus Egypt can't take what would happen to them economically and politically if they did that.

Parkingt111 · 04/12/2023 09:43

Large parts of the south including where the Internally displaced are seeking refuge have been told to evacuate again this morning

I have a really bad feeling about this. The Israeli ambassador to the UK (can't stand the woman) suggested this morning there is safe zones the Gazans can go to ie Mawasi

The screen then showed the viewers what she was referring to. A barren deserted wasteland that has no infrastructure or aid.

Efacsen · 04/12/2023 09:50

Yep Conricus this morning saying they are doing all they can to keep civilians safe and blaming humanitarian aid agencies for impeding that

Guess the aid agencies should magically cover that wasteland with tents and field hospitals

Parkingt111 · 04/12/2023 09:53

@Efacsen i appreciate how MSM seem to have abit more awareness now and actually challenging the points put forward rather than taking it at face value. Even if they don't recieve an answer for it

Trulywonderful · 04/12/2023 10:00

This is from 11th November:

"Israel is asking Palestinians to gather in what it calls a “humanitarian zone” in al-Mawasi, a stretch of palm-lined beach with little infrastructure in the southern Gaza Strip, where Israeli officials say civilians can receive humanitarian aid brought over the border from Egypt."

From what I have been reading over the past few weeks Israel has always suggested this is the best location to flee too and a lot of the aid is going there. Plus it has been set up to handle refugees. Unlikely to have tunnels or building Israel plan to bomb because not a built up area etc.

I think the main issue facing people that flee there is that rainy season is starting. I can't see how so many people can be kept in humanitarian conditions in tents during rainy season.

Parkingt111 · 04/12/2023 10:05

That's incorrect
There has been hardly any aid going there
I know my views are slightly biased so this is what sky news reporters found when they went there three days ago

Parkingt111 · 04/12/2023 10:06

Three days ago, we asked the Sky News team in Gaza to go to Al Mawasi to see if any preparations had been made for the evacuees.

They sent back the pictures showing a desolate wasteland of sand dunes next to the Mediterranean Sea. Al Mawasi is an old Bedouin settlement and has little infrastructure, if any.
There is no aid, there are no agency tents, there are no food kitchens. Simply put, there is no help.

Parkingt111 · 04/12/2023 10:08

Mawasi is a tiny strip of wasteland which is no place for an adult to try and survive in let alone a child
They might aswell have asked them to go stand in the desert

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