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Conflict in the Middle East

50 hostages will be released

207 replies

Ohlalalalala · 22/11/2023 05:29

At least a bit of good news in the darkness:

Israel's cabinet has approved a deal with Hamas to secure the release of 50 hostages being held in Gaza.

The hostages will be released over a four-day pause in fighting, a statement from the Israeli prime minister's office says.

Under the deal, the release of every additional 10 hostages will extend the pause in fighting by one day.

The deal was approved by Israel's cabinet after a lengthy meeting that ran into the early hours of Wednesday.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67481139

Israel Gaza live news: Israel's cabinet approves deal to release hostages during pause in fighting - BBC News

Under the deal, Hamas will release 50 women and children during a four-day pause in fighting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67481139

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
Jupitersstorm · 22/11/2023 19:35

Rachna83 · 22/11/2023 18:25

https://www.savethechildren.org.uk/news/media-centre/press-releases/new-research-reveals-ongoing-violence-on-palestinian-children--

Jason Lee, Save the Children’s Country Director in the occupied Palestinian territory, added: “Each year approximately 500-700 Palestinian children come into contact with the Israeli military court system; they are the only children in the world to experience systematic prosecution in military courts. Our research shows – once again - that they are subject to serious and widespread abuse at the hands of those who are meant to be looking after them.

“There’s simply no justification for beating and stripping children, treating them like animals or robbing them of their futures. This is a child protection crisis that can no longer be ignored. There must finally be an end to this abusive military detention system.”

Many articles like this online. The crimes these children have committed is throwing stones.

So you think this Jason Lee fella's opinion "they are the only children in the world to experience systematic prosecution in military courts. " without any hard facts, stats and references to other countries is evidence?

Kindatired · 22/11/2023 19:37

eardefender · 22/11/2023 10:11

Where have Israel said that about palestinians? If Israel wanted to eliminate Gaza then they could do that very swiftly. If Israel are genocidal then why are 20% of Israelis arabs including Palestinian Arabs. Why did they drop leaflets and tell civilians where to go thereby endangering Israeli troops by revealing their location and battle plan. Why, even after 12,000 hits are there only such a small number of civilians killed. We cant trust Hamas figures so if 10,000 are dead then half of these might be hamas. If this is even remotely true then Israel has managed the most amount of hits with an astonishingly low amount of civilian casualties and clear proof that they are doing everything possible to minimise civilian casualties despite Hamas using them as Human shields. hamas on the other side have always called for genocide against jews and use their own people as human shields.

I don’t think the death figures include the people under rubble who haven’t been retrieved or where the body parts were unrecognisable, so you are probably right that the figures reported by the Health ministry are incorrect .
But the true figure is probably much higher as a lot of buildings are several stories high and there’s no fuel for machinery.
How do you feel about this?
https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/gaza-health-officials-lost-ability-count-dead-israeli-105071226

Toothyfruity · 22/11/2023 19:47

untitledmum · 22/11/2023 19:33

@Rachna83 "In contrast, few Jewish citizens of Israel, including children, are convicted of violence against Palestinians"

You are 100% correct here. The reason why there are way fewer Jewish citizens convicted of violence against Palestinians is because there are a lot less Israeli kids spending their time throwing stones at Palestinians, hence there are way less convictions.

(Not) sorry for ruining your antisemitic and anti-Israel narrative.

All your posts are hateful.

The reason that Israelis aren't convicted of these crimes is apartheid. They can commit violence with no consequences so long as it's against Palestinians.

localnotail · 22/11/2023 19:49

Toothyfruity · 22/11/2023 19:01

No obviously that's not fake. I think she's slapped a few soldiers actually. Once for shooting her cousin.

What are people who are constantly harassed by soldiers supposed to do? Her family are activists who protest the stealing of Palestinian land in their locality so they're targeted by Israelis forces.

Is violence only OK when Israelis are committing it? Shooting the cousin is OK but smacking the soldiers isn't? You just expect people to take violence from soldiers day in day out, year in year out and never lash out?

Well in any country, under any circumstances if you attack and slap a soldier/ policemen etc you will get into trouble. She was not being harassed as far as I have seen, she attacked a soldier who was standing quite stoically and not responding. I'm not saying the whole situation in Israel is normal or ok, but a lot of Palestinian kids are encouraged by adults to attack Israeli soldiers, throw rocks at them, etc. Some even killed soldiers in the past, as far as I know. Its awful. I would say the adults who encourage and teach children to engage in terrorist activities are ultimately responsible for them getting into trouble.

But yes, you attack authority - you get arrested, such is life. A bit different to a small kid who was having breakfast and was kidnapped after seeing their family brutally murdered in front of them.

Toothyfruity · 22/11/2023 19:53

localnotail · 22/11/2023 19:49

Well in any country, under any circumstances if you attack and slap a soldier/ policemen etc you will get into trouble. She was not being harassed as far as I have seen, she attacked a soldier who was standing quite stoically and not responding. I'm not saying the whole situation in Israel is normal or ok, but a lot of Palestinian kids are encouraged by adults to attack Israeli soldiers, throw rocks at them, etc. Some even killed soldiers in the past, as far as I know. Its awful. I would say the adults who encourage and teach children to engage in terrorist activities are ultimately responsible for them getting into trouble.

But yes, you attack authority - you get arrested, such is life. A bit different to a small kid who was having breakfast and was kidnapped after seeing their family brutally murdered in front of them.

Edited

She wasn't arrested for attacking "authority" (if an occupying force counts as such).

She was arrested for an Instagram post post that she says had nothing to do with her.

localnotail · 22/11/2023 19:57

Toothyfruity · 22/11/2023 19:53

She wasn't arrested for attacking "authority" (if an occupying force counts as such).

She was arrested for an Instagram post post that she says had nothing to do with her.

She was arrested several times, released previously. And yes, Israel army is authority in Israel, unless you don't recognise Israel as a country. I do, so I don't consider Israel "occupiers", sorry.

Rachna83 · 22/11/2023 20:00

I love how the the words anti Israel and anti Semitic get thrown out when all else fails.
It's hard to have any meaningful debate with people who refuse to see beyond their own narrow perspective.

The articles i put up are a good insight into the abuse suffered by the children and people of Palestine. There are many more articles from reputable sources to back this up. Though some of the posters on here have there eyes firmly shut!

Stomacharmeleon · 22/11/2023 20:14

Can I remind people that a 3 year old- Abigail- is hopefully being released tomorrow. Both her parents were murdered and someone picked her up and took her hostage. A three year old.

Toothyfruity · 22/11/2023 20:18

localnotail · 22/11/2023 19:57

She was arrested several times, released previously. And yes, Israel army is authority in Israel, unless you don't recognise Israel as a country. I do, so I don't consider Israel "occupiers", sorry.

They are occupiers in the occupied territories. Hence the name.

localnotail · 22/11/2023 20:22

Toothyfruity · 22/11/2023 20:18

They are occupiers in the occupied territories. Hence the name.

hm ok

kiki50 · 22/11/2023 20:23

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

So many uneducated antisemites on this thread who are making up lies as they go along. Please read the history of Israel before you come here with false narratives to gain sympathy for a terrorist mindset. Read both sides, not just what your educators ( for want of a better word) have indoctrinated you to accept. Antisemitism has no place in this world.

Stomacharmeleon · 22/11/2023 20:26

Hopefully fifty hostages will be released tomorrow.....

Kindatired · 22/11/2023 20:27

eardefender · 22/11/2023 11:06

@Toothyfruity Yes, I definitely think Israel is the problem. Hamas wouldn't exist if Israel just respected Palestine's borders and its people

Can you explain what your definition of a palestinian is and what the borders of 'palestine' are?
It is baffling that you find Israel the problem, They are a democracy and the only one in the middle east and the only Jewish state in the world. They have been fighting antisemetic terrorism for decades.

Israel have been fighting a brutal terrorist organisation amongst other means,by:
1.-Undermining Palestinian organisations that would have progressed a two state solution

  1. Militarisation of society
3 On-going land grabs and harassing people off their land in the West Bank 4 Internment without trial- thousands of people 5 Shoot to kill of civilians ,significant numbers of whom were just stroppy teenagers like the 14 yo throwing stones last July who was shot in the head 6 No voter representation for some Palestinians in Israeli controlled areas

This is not how you get rid of a brutal terrorist organisation or resolve conflict. Hamas will just come back from outside having won support all over both the Islamic and non Islamic world on the back of Israel’s brutality.
Demilitarisation, de-weaponisation, fair division of resources, economic supports to boost the post war economy an end to internment, the rule of law and fair trial, equality of opportunity, parity of esteem, dislodging through intermediaries and the the pain of dialoging with the political associates of your enemies.
But to the outside world it seems that Netanyahus government wants to use the desire for revenge among the electorate to carry out ethnic cleansing for the single state solution he wants, regardless of how much antisemitism this creates for other Jewish people living outside of Israel.

Israel/OPT: Horrifying cases of torture and degrading treatment of Palestinian detainees amid spike in arbitrary arrests  

Israeli authorities have dramatically increased their use of administrative detention, a form of arbitrary detention, of Palestinians across the occupied West Bank; extended emergency measures that facilitate inhuman and degrading treatment of prisoner...

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/#:~:text=Israeli%20authorities%20have%20dramatically%20increased,of%20torture%20and%20death%20in

Oliotya · 22/11/2023 20:28

localnotail · 22/11/2023 19:57

She was arrested several times, released previously. And yes, Israel army is authority in Israel, unless you don't recognise Israel as a country. I do, so I don't consider Israel "occupiers", sorry.

Was she arrested in Israel? Or the West Bank, which is, in fact, not Israel.

Toothyfruity · 22/11/2023 20:40

Oliotya · 22/11/2023 20:28

Was she arrested in Israel? Or the West Bank, which is, in fact, not Israel.

She was arrested at her home in the occupied West Bank.

Not Israel.

Parkingt111 · 22/11/2023 20:47

untitledmum · 22/11/2023 19:33

@Rachna83 "In contrast, few Jewish citizens of Israel, including children, are convicted of violence against Palestinians"

You are 100% correct here. The reason why there are way fewer Jewish citizens convicted of violence against Palestinians is because there are a lot less Israeli kids spending their time throwing stones at Palestinians, hence there are way less convictions.

(Not) sorry for ruining your antisemitic and anti-Israel narrative.

Well I could give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not aware of how the IDF operate in the occupied west bank but then you mention you have family in the IDF so it seems you do know.
You must know very well why the wrong behaviour of the settlers there is largely ignored and doesn't result in many arrests let alone convictions

https://www.btselem.org/settler_violence

FtRttS · 22/11/2023 21:02

Yes I already know about the the forcible theft of land, words, images, rhetoric from others. There is no need to prove this point again and again.

localnotail · 22/11/2023 22:07

Toothyfruity · 22/11/2023 20:40

She was arrested at her home in the occupied West Bank.

Not Israel.

Ahed Tamimi is a political activist who actively participates in anti-Israel campaign and who took part in clashes with Israeli army; its a sad but very, very different situation to child hostages whose parents were tortured and killed in front of them. She was arrested and tried in court - not saying its ok but - she was not raped and tortured in front of her family.

Toothyfruity · 23/11/2023 00:07

localnotail · 22/11/2023 22:07

Ahed Tamimi is a political activist who actively participates in anti-Israel campaign and who took part in clashes with Israeli army; its a sad but very, very different situation to child hostages whose parents were tortured and killed in front of them. She was arrested and tried in court - not saying its ok but - she was not raped and tortured in front of her family.

Plenty of Palestinian children are taken from their families and mistreated and even tortured in Israeli prisons for no reason whatsoever. Both sides are treating children appallingly. Israel has been doing this consistently for years.

TooBigForMyBoots · 23/11/2023 00:51

Jupitersstorm · 22/11/2023 19:35

So you think this Jason Lee fella's opinion "they are the only children in the world to experience systematic prosecution in military courts. " without any hard facts, stats and references to other countries is evidence?

Do you think it is acceptable for any children in the world to experience systematic prosecution in any court @Jupitersstorm ?

localnotail · 23/11/2023 08:26

Toothyfruity · 23/11/2023 00:07

Plenty of Palestinian children are taken from their families and mistreated and even tortured in Israeli prisons for no reason whatsoever. Both sides are treating children appallingly. Israel has been doing this consistently for years.

What, like burning babies in the oven kind of bad treatment? I doubt Israel does that. I agree that kids are involved in fighting and altercations and its appalling, but I think you need to look at how Hamas encouraging children to become martyrs and die for the cause - a lot of them deliberately attack Israeli soldiers in order to provoke them. I'm not paining Israel as all lovely and innocent, but their "oppression and imprisonment" is not the kind Hamas does - even to Palestinians. Israel doesn't stone people, doesn't thrown them off the roof for being gay, doesn't burn people alive and doesn't gang rape them to death. A lot of Palestinians imprisoned by Israel are released and are fine and well - not the same with Palestinian prisoners. We don't even know what is happening with the hostages - lets wait and see how many are released tomorrow and in what state, Hamas are not even sure where they are and who is responsible for them. Israel, on the other hand, already released a list of people to be released on their side.

user4750 · 23/11/2023 08:34

SilverCatStripes · 22/11/2023 16:28

I 100% agree with you backtowinter , it’s astonishing to see how posters here refuse to acknowledge that Hamas are the problem!

And any discussion of how problematic some branches of Islam can be (particularly those who require adherence to Sharia law) is instantly shut down or removed.

If you can not discuss the dangers of an ideology then that ideology is dangerous!!

Oh the irony.

The inability to separate a terrorist organisation from a whole group of people or a whole religion is quote astonishing.

Not all Muslims are Palestinian. Not all Palestinians support Hamas.

Not all Jewish People are Israelis. Not all Israelis support their extremist right wing government.

Toothyfruity · 23/11/2023 08:43

localnotail · 23/11/2023 08:26

What, like burning babies in the oven kind of bad treatment? I doubt Israel does that. I agree that kids are involved in fighting and altercations and its appalling, but I think you need to look at how Hamas encouraging children to become martyrs and die for the cause - a lot of them deliberately attack Israeli soldiers in order to provoke them. I'm not paining Israel as all lovely and innocent, but their "oppression and imprisonment" is not the kind Hamas does - even to Palestinians. Israel doesn't stone people, doesn't thrown them off the roof for being gay, doesn't burn people alive and doesn't gang rape them to death. A lot of Palestinians imprisoned by Israel are released and are fine and well - not the same with Palestinian prisoners. We don't even know what is happening with the hostages - lets wait and see how many are released tomorrow and in what state, Hamas are not even sure where they are and who is responsible for them. Israel, on the other hand, already released a list of people to be released on their side.

Wow. That's a lot of Kool Aid.

localnotail · 23/11/2023 09:53

Toothyfruity · 23/11/2023 08:43

Wow. That's a lot of Kool Aid.

That's a really thoughtful and detailed response and it changed my mind completely, how wrong have I been.

Toothyfruity · 23/11/2023 09:56

localnotail · 23/11/2023 09:53

That's a really thoughtful and detailed response and it changed my mind completely, how wrong have I been.

Well that's the whole point. There's no point trying to reason with someone who posts the type of thing you've just posted. I've given up.

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