Suella has got what she wanted

[Freefree]

She purposely riled everyone up about the protests and now there are far right and football hooligans planning to counter riot and incite violence.
This is known by the police hence the heightened police presence on the day.

However it's now going to look like it's because of the pro Palestine march even though they are not planning to go anywhere near the cenotaph and its just a peaceful protest.

Indeed they're not, but what I'm saying is despite what the press and twitter are portraying there are plenty of people who have gone to the cenotaph to pay their respects. Some comments are suggesting everyone is causing mayhem when just like with the protestors it's a minority. It doesn't excuse their actions or the actions of those who have whipped it all up, but it's only fair to recognise the truth. A peaceful, respectful group of thousands have travelled to the cenotaph today as they always do, and they are separate to these losers.

Because, according to their chants, the police are no longer English.

Emboldened by Braverman saying they aren't doing their job

I don't think anyone is suggesting anyone who went to the Cenotaph today to genuinely pay their respects for the 2 minute silence is associated in any way with these idiots, though the vast majority will go tomorrow for the ceremonies.

The same distinction isn't afforded to the march for peace when they are labelled Hate marches by the Home Secretary

Politics is confusing these days. I though The far right used were supporters of the Nazi regime, so you'd think they'd all be at home mourning the fact that Germany lost the war. Now the far right seems to include extreme nationalists and racists more generally? I should do some reading, as I no longer understand what people mean by far right.

"The war veterans support her. "

A heck of a lot certainly don't and more specifically the vast majority of veterans certainly want nothing to do with Yaxley-Lennon or his knuckle dragging side kicks (many of whom certainly are not veterans).

That said I'd agree with the SWP has indeed had a heck of a lot to answer for at demos over the years.

I think people say ‘far right’ when all they mean is white nationalism, tbh.

I mean, Hamas are pretty far right but you’d struggle to get people to label them as such.

Left and right have become meaningless terms to me, the meanings seemed to have flipped in a lot of ways.

The war veterans support her.

What "war veterans" @TodayInahurry?

This is just vile racism.

Oh plenty of people are suggesting just that. I don't think many agree with the HS do they? I've certainly seen the majority be disgusted by what she's said so not sure of your point there.

I should do some reading, as I no longer understand what people mean by far right.

I don't think it means anything anymore. People just affix it to a set of views and decide that's where you fall politically.

The war veterans support her? This war veterans charity has no issue with the march for Palestine.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-legion-palestine-protest-row-b2445116.html

@TodayInahurry which of the protesters blew up children in a concert?

To be pro Palestine doesn't mean you are pro hamas you narrow minded individual

@PaperSky I'm struggling to understand the left/right definitions these days. When I was young my friends might get beaten up leaving the gay clubs, and we knew who these attackers were and the kind of right wing they were. I am going to read up a bit - far right wing used to refer more to Nazis and fascism, but now it's broadened to include obsessions with authoritarianism, nationalism and xenophobia - that's what I found out so far. It's a horrible monster that seems to constantly change form - that I feel fairly certain of!

A loose affiliation of many groups, what they largely have in common is white ultra nationalism and a hatred of immigrants especially if theyre the wrong colour or religion.
Some will be Hitler admirers but not of Germany (foreigners, liberal and EU) but will happily make links with other far right groups anywhere.

Mostly they look for situations they can insert themselves into to inflate trouble.

There were calls to join 'our Hindu brothers to fight Muslims' in last year's clashes in Leicester.

Thanks @Surplus2requirements I'll read a bit, sorry if I've derailed the convo a bit.

82 confirmed arrests from the counter protests
Met have said

I don’t think anyone on this thread is talking about those people. They were there for the silence and short ceremony that was there.

The ‘counter protestors’ are a completely separate thing. They were there to ‘protect’ those people attending the cenotaph from a protest in a different part of the city.

As someone (very accurately) summed it up on another thread
”Suella blew her whistle and her dogs came running”.

Yes nobody is talking about the people who are there to pay respects.
We're talking about the counter protesters. I mean look at the state of them.
The pro Palestine march is peaceful so far. And again Iif there are any idiots within that group spouting hate then I hope they get found and arrested.
But the only reason the counter protesters are there is to incite violence.
I'm watching sky news and seeing them pushing and shoving and smirking, they love the violence and disruption, do you think they really care about Britan or Armistice day?

No, I don't call women 'witches' 'bitches' 'whores' 'sluts' or 'karens'.

If I disagree with a woman's opinions or behaviour, I try to keep my focus on on that. Calling women names is not only quite childish, and misogynistic, but its actually quite dangerous territory to stop seeing the humanity of people or groups you disagree with but instead demonise them with slurs.

I think its quite tragic that cultural misogyny is to deep, that the culture to belittle and 'other' people one disagrees with with vicious name calling, is so deep that you genuinely seem unable to conceive that someone would see a problem with this and choose not to do it.

Does it bother you at all that some of the counter protestors who you say "don't want Jewish people to feel unsafe" have been seen today chanting Sieg Heil and doing Nazi salutes, as reported on Sky News?

Do you think that makes Jewish people feel safer?

And should we count you in with them?

Well, I would try not to form a solid judgement on someone from a tiny clip like that. But if you asked me to on that tiny clip I would say she was angry and wrong. I would say its possible she is very traumatised by recent events.

What I would not do is think I need to label her with name calling that demonises her whole being, rather than commenting on her behaviour and views.

Frankly, its depressing that you seem to think its inevitable that I have to give her a label or name of some sort, rather than respond to what she said.

No wonder the world is in such a mess.

I would encourage you to think about a different way to respond to people.

Bravermans brownshirts heard her whistle and they came running.

My papa died fighting fascists.

Those of you on here who praised her.

Shame on you. Shame on you & damm you to hell

Did you see the nazi salutes of those "protecting the cenotaph" and shouting England till I die.

Vomit inducing.

Can't tell if this is ironic?

She's certainly done a good job of whipping up the right wing extremists and encouraging them to engage in criminal behaviour today, so I guess your post was intended ironically but I can't quite tell.

She's odious but she's just one factor. The Daily Mail printed a full front page about an elderly veteran poppy seller being punched and kicked. It didn't happen, but it inflamed such rage that it was impossible to reason with the mob. The veteran was wearing the red beret of the Para Regiment, and almost certainly never served with them.

BBC now reporting that 300 thousand people marched peacefully today so hopefully we can crack on with Remembrance Sunday without this nonsense rhetoric.