BBC News - Macron calls on Israel to stop killing Gaza's women and babies

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BBC News - Macron calls on Israel to stop killing Gaza's women and babies
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67356581

Russia invaded Ukraine. Israel is responding, in their view, to a terrorist attack which was barbaric and disturbed in its manner. Hamas have also committed war crimes.The war started by Russia is not the same as the conflict between Israel and Palestine. At all.

@Iwantcakeeveryday the issue for me isn't the fact that Israel is responding
Its the disproportionate nature of the response that many are criticising
I'm sure you would agree

The issue I don’t think has been resolved is what to do about Hamas

I mean this more in looking forward, for Palestinians too

How will they be governed and who would be safe enough to do so?

War crimes are war crimes are war crimes.
Hospitals being bombed, displaced families bombed, water and electricity cut off. Dead babies, toddlers, children, elderly, injured bombed by a country sustaining & committing war crimes against innocent people who can't defend themselves.

DEAD BABIES WERE NOT IN HAMAS.

Yes and you've seen me say that. The only problem is, none of us can come up with any other way to get rid of Hamas without hurting civilians and without risking further death of Israeli's and their soldiers. Thats the problem here, Hamas are making sure by situating themselves amongst civilians, that maximum civilian deaths occur, which can then be blamed on Israel. My issue with a lot of the comments is they don't recognise this or give any responsibility to Hamas for Palestinian deaths. In order to have a ceasefire, there needs to be a way for Israelis to feel safe, and for Hamas to be eradicated and Palestinians given the chance to have safety from them too. Its easy for us in the UK to say, ceasefire. What I am not seeing is much understanding for those in Israel who clearly expect to be kept safe by their leaders too. Like we do.

After 9/11 the whole world responded. Many innocent people were killed.

Your simplistic hysterical responses add nothing to the conversation. Israel isn't targeting babies, that was Hamas.

@Iwantcakeeveryday
You are welcome to your opinion and the ability to share (thanks to democracy) it without fear of what may happen to you as a result. My opinion is that Israel are killing babies, toddlers, children, elderly and injured,commiting war crimes and breaking international law. Genocide needs punished.

That's all true... more children have been killed overall in this conflict.
It's indefensible.

We killed babies and innocent civilians too when the US was a victim of terrorism. Why is it ok for us but not Israel? Neither actually intend to 'kill babies', whereas the people they're responding to, did.

I want ceasefire too, but I won't be blaming Israel alone for Palestinian deaths, Hamas designed it this way. They are responsible for that.

It certainly was not
Which is why Biden said at the start, don't make the same mistake we did
Neither can be defended

So how would you respond to these acts of terrorism if you were leader? What is the solution? Bear in mind that a leader is held responsible for deaths of its people, whether they are from terrorism, war or a pandemic. Your job is to keep your people safe after an act of terrorism, how do you do that if you can't respond militarily?

I completely agree. The situation is abhorrent. BBC is saying one child is killed every ten minutes in Gaza 😔.

I have said from the start
There should have been safe zones from the start that were not later bombed
Israel should not and continue to not obstruct life saving aid
There should be some red lines that under no circumstance are crossed, like bombing hospitals where there are indefensible ill civilians that cannot escape

How would you be able to identify safe zones given Hamas tactics are to hide amongst civilians? Hamas intentionally place themselves inside hospitals.
You didn't;t really answer the question, how would you respond? Given that military responses will always end in civilian casualties. How many deaths are acceptable to you? its not none, its not the current level...

Who is "we"?

UK

All war is disgusting and immoral IMO but pitting the might of a highly effective and well resourced army onto a tiny area the size of Arran with 2 million people on it is wrong, a crime against humanity, as previously mentioned. Blair should have been tried at The Hague and the same should happen to Netanyahu, Hamas leaders, Putin et al. There is very little support for Israel now, thanks to these awful, right wing actions. Considering the holocaust is still in living memory it seems unbelievable there is any support for the actions of the Israeli government. I can't believe that any non radicalised person could support the actions and goal of Hamas but neither can anyone with empathy for others think that this Israeli genocide should be supported. The only way forward is ceasefire or sanctions, withdrawal of funding and an end to arms dealing.

Well from your argument if Hamas is everywhere then all the civilians of Gaza are a legitimate target
If all of Gaza is wiped out if it means Hamas is eliminated then its justified

Have you seen the videos of the IDF sexually assaulting the hijabi girl, and the IDF using Palestinians as human shields?

Not to mention the the hundreds of Palestinian hostages taken from the West Bank and being paraded around TikTok and tortured by IDF soldiers?

And with the fake 40 beheaded babies you can now replace that with real 39 Palestinian babies on incubators that have been suffocated by Israel.

Israel is not responding to the Hamas attacks, they haven't stopped with the original attacks that have been going on for years.

Israel has now admitted that they killed a number of their own civilians on Oct 7th so I would like to see their kill total for that. They admitted that they openly shot the civilians from a helicopter without distinguishing who was who.

The hostages that have been released have stated that other hostages were killed by the IDF....

But I've already said, plenty of times, I don't support their approach right now. I also happen to think they are unfairly judged by a world that has done very similar things in defence of its own people. It would need an international force to take control for it to be less bloody and devastating and we don't seem that good at achieving what we both seem to want when we've tried it elsewhere. It made us all less safe.
Being outraged at one side and thinking 'ceasefire' is a complete answer, is what I am objecting to really.
Again, you don't ever answer the question I am asking, proving the point that there is no 'good' and just answer and that any response will involve loss of lives.

I did answer previously but you disagreed with those points which is fine for you to do so if that's what you think
Whereas I think that if those measures were in place it would still he possible to move towards a peaceful longterm resolution
The reason we won't agree is we have different views on how this should be approached
What we can both agree on is that a long standing peaceful resolution needs to happen

I just don't think your suggestions would eliminate Hamas, so it would not be a viable option. What you're suggesting isn't taking into account the realities of the situation. However and whoever goes in to eliminate Hamas, will be killing civilians because they use them as human shields. Allowing aid and supplies into Gaza would alleviate some of the problems, and should happen, but the war itself would continue wouldn't it?

I don't believe Hamas can be fully eliminated, certainly not the ideology. The way Israel is going about it now including not allowing enough food and medical supplies in is going to create a new generation of enemies, just going round and round in a vicious cycle

Israel may well close off threats. Idk if can be done completely but all ties may be over

The hard part is how Palestinians can be governed by a terrorist organisation, in terms of international help and aid

Hamas are a danger to Israel but also make it hard for people in Gaza to have a government. Any terrorist threat is to whoever takes their place, if they do

Thank goodness countries are starting to see sense
How can any leader justify support for genocide.
Time to stop financing and arming Israel