BBC News - Macron calls on Israel to stop killing Gaza's women and babies

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BBC News - Macron calls on Israel to stop killing Gaza's women and babies
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67356581

Yes, I saw Biden's comments, Parkingt111, though very much doubt they'll make any difference

@Parkingt111

I find it more worrying than surprising. If even Macron is now saying this then it means things on the ground must be a lot worse than we know

I really would jump to assuming that's the case, you need to be aware that President Macron has got to walk a fine line with his domestic audience (the point @Justanotherlurker made)...

He had to tread very carefully with the quite reasonable concerns of the Jewish community, hence many of the statements post Oct 7th, now he perhaps needs to say something to placate the very sizeable Muslim community....I wouldn't read any more into it than that.

They are complicit.

They've been cheering at the sidelines from the start.

They all have blood on their hands.

No Biden is making the same play as Macron, it isn't Israel is bad considering he has sent a military arsenal to the area, it is mainly due to domestic politics.

This really isn't the win that some want it to be.

It's interesting that the main thing, indeed almost the only thing some have taken away from the BBC piece is the headline...there's quite a lot of other stuff in there including:

"Ahead of a march against antisemitism on Sunday which a large section of France's political class will attend, President Macron called on all French citizens to condemn antisemitic acts "without ambiguity".

"He said France had probably Europe's biggest Muslim community and a big Jewish community too, and with France and the rest of Europe seeing a big rise in antisemitism, all French citizens had to be united against antisemitism, and had to "share the pain or the compassion of Palestinians".

Israel can't based its domestic security on France being shit-scared of its own population.

Don't disagree about how Israel will quite rightly see things.

That said I'm far from convinced France is the only country where politicians are appearing to be playing it all a bit canny with what they say for domestic purposes....

Interesting, I've not heard that - were you there?

Exactly, I read the the press conference earlier on le monde and the OP has been hoodwinked by the BBC playing fast and loose again with headlines chasing those clicks.

This is Macron playing domestic against geopolitics, he knows calling for a ceasefire is the simplistic approach considering it was hamas who recently broke the recent deal, this is a wider domestic/geopolitical issue and after he has said this they can now treat the protests like the yellow vests/anit lockdown/pro union riots, that is with rubber bullets and water guns and police in riot gear.

Even a rudimentary understanding of Frances secular principals should understand why Macron has come out with this statement and not claim it as a win for there 'team'

Just like they did with any other protest for the last decade, the only difference is that they didn't employ riot gear with rubber bullets and water cannons, France accepts it has a problem with Islamic extremism and despite the MN meme of France it would fill multiple threads if our police acted the same way.

As you obviously know, even the left in France are essentially saying this is a calming measure for domestic purposes as it will make little difference to the situation, and political analysts the world over are highlighting issues, Macrons statement is nothing more than a domestic policy issue and if you want to dig deeper is detrimental to the pro Palestine crowd and not the win that the OP expected it to be

OK thanks, I know some demos were attempted in some cities not long after the 7th Oct and the CRS put a stop to it PDQ.

I gather there was also an attempt at organising a demo in our local city last w/e and it got stopped before it got started.

Instead of sending a random twitter link, here is the rueters report, it is a bit more nuanced in that they want to know the organisers and going through the process of being able to treat them the same as those opposing retirement age/yellow vests and bringing out the water canons if necessary, another internal struggle for MN to be more like the french protesting whilst also seeing 1930;s germany in Boris ordering water cannons. It's a nuances situation

French court states that pro-Palestinian protests should be banned case by case | Reuters

No, a "humanitarian pause" basically means ...

"Feed and water a few people a little so that they still get to die of bombardment, rather than of starvation, dehydration, or cholera - except: not even all of them!"

Humanitarian pauses are for "us" to feel less shitty and guilt-ridden, not for people in Gaza! Yay us! Are we not JUST the humanitarians of the century? We deserve a Nobel peace prize or something, surely?!

As for your frankly cynical question: yes, hostages must be released with immediate effect and unconditionally. This is the only morally defensible position to take. But, as for the insinuated bit: if you happen to think 2.2 million Gazans deserve to be collectively punished for that ... frankly, the nicest thing I can say is "go get some therapy and try to get over your apparent and frankly worrying lack of empathy".

The question is, why has it taken so long to say this? It's been happening for weeks

France has now called for a ceasefire but on the 28th of October, France was one of the very few Western nations that voted for the UN resolution for a "humanitarian truce".

So not completely supportive of Israel from the start as stated by a pp.

So Hamas beheading babies in Israel is OK? You do know Hamas build military HQs under hospitals so the people they don’t care about get killed?

Yep

It's maybe timely to also recall that 140 nations have been calling for a humanitarian ceasefire at the UN for some weeks now

Veto'ed by permanent security council member US on behalf of Israel - tho' even Blinken is now saying too many Palestinians are 'dying' and Biden is seeking to distance himself somewhat from the unfolding catastrophe in Gaza

You do realise that Israel has thousands of Palestinian hostages right?

Everyone on both sides should be released.