My question to you

[whatswrongwiththeworldddd]

If Hamas was hiding in Tel Aviv, would it be acceptable to indiscriminately bomb Tel Aviv killing 4000 children, 10000 civilians, 24 journalists and 70 UN colleagues?

If a school shooter was hiding out In a classroom, when would it ever be morally accepted to bomb the entire school?

Well, if the Palestinians have it in the bag and even the worldwide Jewish population has turned against Israel, then I suppose there's no need for any of this hand-wringing. Hamas will be popping non-alcoholic champagne corks in the streets of Tel Aviv in no time and flinging gay men and political opponents of all those really tall skyscrapers they have there, and we'll all feel warm and glowy because at least there will be peace. I probably wouldn't book any holidays in Eilat, though. Not unless you're poorly and can't afford Dignitas.

@EsmaCannonball What a shit thing to say.

Yeah, I think that post speaks for itself. Just keep talking.

Enough of the pinkwashing propaganda @EsmaCannonball , it's so transparent. Israel has Bezalel Smotrich. And he's popular.

I suppose if you being pogrommed you don't technically have to go anywhere. Advisable, yes, but compulsory, no. The ones who were actually kicked out of their home countries really did have to go somewhere else.

Are you sure about that? They just upped and left e.g. Iraq, entirely for no reason?

Whether Israel cares about them or not is irrelevant to the question of whether Hamas are using them as human shields, isn't it?

It's pretty bloody clear that Hamas are.

You think Hamas told them to stay in the north out of concern for their wellbeing? Blimey. You're clear that Israel doesn't care about them but you believe that Hamas does?

Antisemitism was a European problem. Don't try to project it onto a pluralist Middle East. The Zionist movement went to great lengths to try to get Jews from outside Europe.

Oh wow.

I don't even know where to start with such delusional batshittery.

Yes Israel, as suggested by the Heritage Minister, could just drop a tactical backpack sized nuke on Gaza and kill every living being in Gaza and for a buffer zone around.

But the reason Israel doesn’t do this is because it is a red line for them, unlike many other international laws that are supposed to be red lines for everyone.

So the argument that it could be worse in Gaza, therefore the Palestinians are the human shields does not logically line up for me. Human shields only work if they matter to your enemy. Palestinians do not matter to IDF or to the Israeli leaders on the war council.

The Israeli hostages are the human shields in this conflict and the narrative of Palestinians being human shields for Hamas is in my opinion making the Israeli hostages lives be forgotten in all this. It is making the bombing with heavy explosives in an attempt to get to Hamas seem more acceptable because every time human shield is mentioned, it’s with “Palestinian” in front of it when the human shields are actually Israeli. That’s what a hostage is, a hostage is a human shield.

Antisemitism was a European problem.

What the actual fuck?

Antisemitism has been universal. Yes some areas of the planet were a bit nicer than others at times, but it never stayed that way in any one place. It’s why we have had to constantly emigrate and immigrate. Follow the winds of fortune.

@noblegiraffe
I'm sure it wasn't easy being a Jew in the Middle East when suddenly an outside power comes in and creates a colonial settler state in the middle of the region "in the name of the Jewish people". This would inevitably alarm most people in the region, and since this state professes to be Jewish, it must have put Middle Eastern Jews in a difficult and uncomfortable situation.

Up until two minutes ago I was an atheist, but upon discovering about the 'pluralist Middle East' I have now decided to go on a Billy Graham-style bible rally tour of Middle Eastern town squares. I thought I'd start with Tehran, Riyadh, maybe Shiraz (it sounds so nice). Wish me luck.

I'm sure it wasn't easy being a Jew in the Middle East when suddenly an outside power comes in and creates a colonial settler state in the middle of the region

Oh mate, do some reading.

@RebekaTuwin But how does emigrating and immigrating solve the problem of anti-Semitism? Is the solution to racism to separate peoples? How does that solve anything?
Many on this thread have argued that the Palestinians are the most anti-Semitic people on Earth. So how did Jewish emigration to Palestine help resolve anti-Semitism ?

Good luck, @EsmaCannonball , you might learn something. Traveling is good for the mind and soul.

Most Jewish people who migrated to Europe only did so because their Middle Eastern homelands became too dangerous and unpleasant for them or because they were literally kicked out. (And then it turned out that Europe was dangerous and unpleasant too. Lovely world.)

Good for them?

What does posting on MN achieve?

They'd do something more constructive if they cared.

@PurpleChrayne has to be one of the most unpleasant posters I have come across. You go on and on about anti semitism and in the same breath call Jewish people who want a ceasefire 'Kapos'

And have on more than one occasion showed your disgust and contempt at ordinary Gazans.
But I'm glad you said it because this is the reality of how many Israelis do see the Gazans, they don't differentiate between palestinians and Hamas.
That video where the Israeli pop singer is singing along with the IDF note that she doesn't sing we are going to destroy Hamas but rather we are going to destroy Gaza
All this rhetoric that the IDF somewhat care for the Palestinians is not true.

When the war first started I was so angry at how immediately the normal Gazans were dehumanised by so many Israeli politicians. In the early days I kept trying to highlight the injustice the palestinians have been through prior to the war and especially the west bank that was often ignored.

But the Israeli government and IDF have single handedly done more to show the world through their actions on how they they view the palestinians, more than words ever could

@RebekaTuwin

Israel’s current ~10,000 civilian deaths per month kill rate, is 4x higher than the worst year of US civilian deaths in Iraq which was ~30,000 over 12 months. It’s partly because of so many children being killed in Gaza

Not that I'm wishing to excuse the USA (and the UK and others) for invading Iraq for a moment, but it's worth noting that the civilian deaths in Iraq in 2006 was largely due to the sectarian violence unleashed as a result of the invasion, not a result of direct US military action. That fact makes the figures even more stark.

This vile Israeli politician or must have been having a party after seeing all the images of Gazans fleeing yesterday

Reference to the video

@RebekaTuwin
I am really struggling to understand why you think 30000 Hamas members (which doesn't include other terrorists that belong to other groups or the civilians that also entered Israel and took hostages and joined in the slaughter) couldn't possibly be using civilian buildings to such a large extent? Their tunnels are underneath them. I'm not sure what people think would happen if only the tunnels were targeted - do people seriously believe that the buildings on top would remain standing?!

So seeing as you're Jewish and have lived in Israel - how did you feel on the 7th October when Israel had just been attacked and Palestinians all over Gaza and the West Bank were celebrating? When their supporters all over the world in eg Sydney and Chicago were chanting "gas the Jews!"? Did you still feel it was the Palestinians being dehumanised? What about when Israelis were asking on Facebook if anyone had heard from their loved one and each post had several thousand "😂" emojis and comments were calling for death to all Jews and cheering on Hamas, comments saying "it's a shame they didn't get you too. Don't worry, we'll get you next time". We will. Not they will. But it's Palestinians that have been dehumanised?!