My question to you

[whatswrongwiththeworldddd]

If Hamas was hiding in Tel Aviv, would it be acceptable to indiscriminately bomb Tel Aviv killing 4000 children, 10000 civilians, 24 journalists and 70 UN colleagues?

If a school shooter was hiding out In a classroom, when would it ever be morally accepted to bomb the entire school?

Are you for real? Are you seriously minimising the massacre to this? It took them almost two years to plan! Why would it take that long if that's all that was required? You're talking about Hamas as though they're freedom fighters rather than trained terrorists! What is wrong with you?! Seriously?!

It's like saying that all it took was a couple of people and a weapon for 9/11 to happen. Honestly, your comment is absolute insanity. They didn't just all wake up one morning and decide to break a ceasefire and kill Israelis 🤯 it was well planned out.

The infrastructure they have bombed includes entrances to tunnels, ammunition store rooms, labs where they manufacture weapons etc.

If Palestinians don't have any value as human shields, why have Hamas told them to stay in the north when Israel have told them to evacuate south?

@user1492757084
....and why don't the Palestinians poison themselves so Israel doesn't have to deal with their pesky existence? Keep going...

How could Hamas evacuate Gaza when Gaza has been under a blockade and now a siege? Where would civilians go? The land borders have a huge wall manned with machine gun nests. The sea has a naval blockade that destroys any boat that goes into the sea without permission. There is no airport and no aircraft.

Hamas have asked for a cease fire. Three times now. I posted the links yesterday.

What belief are you wanting me to justify now?

They want every last terrorist dead. As should you.

@noblegiraffe They bomb them EVERYWHERE. They bombed them on the way to the south. They bomb them in hospitals, schools, churches….

Israel could just obliterate Gaza without sacrificing a single one of its own soldiers so, yes, the human shield argument does stand up. You also might want to ask yourself why Israel doesn't use its own citizens as human shields to stop Hamas attacking them. The answer is very simple.

THEY BROKE A CEASEFIRE ON 7TH OCTOBER!! FFS can't you see why Israel might not be overly keen on one when they mean fuck all to the terrorists requesting one?! Honestly, did you only start caring about Palestinians a month ago or something? Otherwise you'd know this.

@NotABeliever No more disgusting than many of the sentiments about the Oct 7 attack, the hostages, and the graphic exploitative descriptions of Palestinian suffering I’ve seen openly expressed across this topic.

I am aware of the bombing of civilians. It’s totally unacceptable.

But if they have zero value as human shields, why did Hamas bother asking them to stay in the north?

As I've been saying since Israel started their indiscriminate bombing of Gaza, it's like the UK bombing the whole of Ireland because the IRA lived there.

@EsmaCannonball It is well known and agreed by the majority of countries that settlers in the Palestinian Territories are illegal. The West Bank has nothing to do with Hamas yet Palestinian there have faced Israeli settler violence for decades.

@noblegiraffe you can’t understand that they also bombed them on the way to the south and then in the south and everywhere else but still think they have protective value?? To acknowledge one is to accept the other.

@EsmaCannonball
We're BACK to Israelis being settler-colonialists? What is this conflict about? Are you suggesting we erase history? Palestinians should just forget what happened to them and move on? People don't forget when they have been wronged. Would you ever dare tell a Jewish person 'so we're back to the Holocaust again?'. No, because people don't forget, and it is insensitive and invalidating to suggest they should.

First, there wasn’t a ceasefire in place on 7 October.

Second, the reason it took time to plan is because the blockade means things need to be smuggled in.

I am not talking about Hamas as freedom fighters, they are terrorists and I do want them gone.

My concern is how incompetent IDF is being. They have bombed to rubble 50% of homes. 30,000 terrorists cannot occupy the homes of a million, not even if each terrorist uses an entire different family as their personal human shield. Olive trees have been bulldozed and greenhouses smashed- do bullets grow on trees? No. Solar panels and water tanks on hospitals have been bombed- how did these contribute to October 7th? (They didnt). Bakeries and warehouses with UN humanitarian aid have been destroyed- again what was their role in Hamas terror attacks?

I am a Jewish British & Israeli citizen. I have lived there as a teenager. My brother & his family still live in Israel. While I do want Hamas gone, I like anyone with humanity, want it done in a way that doesn’t impose a massacre ten times greater on Palestinians than what Hamas imposed on Israelis. In this day and age of intelligence and laser guided bombs, there is no excuse to bomb civilian infrastructure especially those that are protected by international law.

My comment isn't whether I think they have protective value.

My comment is that Hamas clearly do, because they told them to stay in the north despite Israel telling them to evacuate.

There's no other reason that Hamas would have told them to stay in the north other than to provide protective cover for Hamas, right?

So when people talking about Hamas using civilians as human shields, it's clear that's their intention.

The IDF is getting absolutely skullfucked on the ground. They're suppressing the figures on their losses and Bibi and chums are furious and frustrated. The only thing they can do is keep upping the ante with bigger and more egregious atrocities courtesy of Daddy America's bombs (even a boy scout can press a button), which is costing them the propaganda war at alarming speed. The cat is out of the bag about the Nakba and the 75 years of gratuitous brutality and utter disregard for international law. The armed thuggery squads raping and pillaging their way through the West Bank have been exposed. The forced teaming of Judaism and Zionism is breaking down, as Jews all over the world vehemently oppose the orgy of bloodshed happening in Gaza. I don't think Israel will ever recover from this.

There was no ceasefire in place on October 7th. It ended on 22nd September.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/23/middleeast/israel-strikes-gaza-incendiary-balloon-intl-hnk/index.html

Most Israeli Jews are of Middle Eastern and North African descent and have nothing to associate them with Europe. Many of these places were planning to model themselves on the Nazis to deal with their own 'Jew problem.' People don't seem to appreciate that genocide and ethnic cleansing in the Middle East leans heavily one way, and it's not the Jewish people doing it. Look up what the Jewish populations of North African and Middle Eastern countries used to be and what it is now. If Israel didn't exist, where would these people go?

@noblegiraffe They told them to stay because they knew it was a trick and it absolutely was.

@EsmaCannonball
Israel is using its own citizens (the hostages) as an excuse to empty the Gaza Strip of Palestinians. They don't give a shit about the hostages, which is why the families of the hostages are so incensed.

Wow, that's a stretch.

Zionism is a European colonial project and Israel is the result. That's a fact. Just because they brought in Jews from many parts of the world doesn't mean it's not a European colonial project. The Jewish populations of the Middle East and North Africa did not need to go anywhere.

@noblegiraffe They were told, by Israel, to head South & them bombed, by Israel, as the headed south. Where lies the stretch?
it’s a monumental stretch that thousands of men, women & children are dead in a month and you think Israel cares about them.

It’s taking what Hamas said over the muezzin loudspeakers to the Gazans at face value. Hamas said it was a trick. IDF should have proved Hamas wrong and not bombed the south which they had told Gazans would be a safe zone for civilians.

If not a trick, their prediction that the south would not be safe was proven to be true by IDF actions possibly under contradictory orders given by a divided war council to IDF. The bombing in the south was why many tens of thousands of Gazans who went south, turned around and went back north.