What should the Israeli government do?

[auberginefortea]

I thought I'd start this thread to explicitly ask the question. What should the Israeli government do?

I honestly don't know. I appreciate that Israel was attacked on October 7, and that they need to respond. I'm sure everyone wants peace, but what can Israel do?

Nonsense. Its the Palestinians who have refused a 2 state solution numerous times because they want to destroy Israel, not live in peace. That's the stated aim of Hamas and Hezbollah - to kill all Jews. Its Hamas who breached the most recent ceasefire by committing atrocities and declaring war on Israel. Hamas has to be removed. There is no possibility of peace whilst they still operate in Gaza.

Israel should have dealt with Hamas properly a long time ago. It reminds me of 9/11. Terrorist atrocity perpetrated against a country that thought it was invulnerable and chaos ensues.

To answer your question they should find a way to take out Hamas that minimises civilian deaths/potential war crimes. Something it is clearly not doing.

I'll ignore Fluffernutter's antisemitism.

Reallifelurker - I agree that Hamas should have been dealt with (I understand Netanyahu helped prop Hamas up as it was in his interests), but how do you deal with a terrorist group so embedded in urban areas?

Well, let's just say it's a convenient side effect of trying to get rid of Hamas.

Clearing the West Bank of Palestinians points to it as well.

Its the Palestinians who have refused a 2 state solution numerous times because they want to destroy Israel, not live in peace

Glossing over the fact Israel has been occupying the Palestinian Territories for years

Criticising the Israeli regime is not antisemitism.

I'll ignore Fluffernutter's antisemitism.

Lazy argument

Israel wants its hostages back. Who were stolen during the last ceasefire.
The bombing of Gaza and the deaths of civilians is terrible.
Two things can be dreadful at the same time.

It's not really lazy if (i) fluffernutter's response didn't answer the question and (ii) was anti-semitic. She didn't say that Netanyahu didn't want peace - she made a blanket statement about Israel not wanting peace. How would it sound if I said Palestinians don't want peace?

I don't think it knows itself. Keep in mind please that the current Israeli government is very right wing, and prior to this had little support. That makes things more complicated - they are far less likely to do anything seen to be as giving (moral) ground. On the other hand you have Hamas, with a history of using the civilian population as human shields and who to this day state their aim as the destruction of Israel. That makes it very intractable.

If you made me Israeli PM tomorrow I'd be putting a two state solution on the table in more or less the terms of the Clinton era, and seeking something like a UN peacekeeping force (but certainly a more neutral party than the IDF) in to see Gaza through to democratic elections. What would I do if Hamas kept lobbing rockets though? Hmm.

Criticising the Israeli regime is not antisemitism

No it isn’t to be fair. A lot of Israelis criticise their government (and no wonder if the claims they allowed Hamas to remain in order to keep the PA in check are true)

As for how to fight a gorilla militia in a densely populated area without hurting any civilians? Yes that’s difficult but they should not of allowed Hamas to become this well established in the first place. They’ve been there for what? 15 years?

Israel’s solution was to build a ruddy great wall, to hell with the lot of them and job done. Hasn’t worked out that well has it?

They should ensure that they improve their security.
They should try to negotiate the release of the hostages.
They should find neutral mediators to work with Palestinian representatves to work towards a two state solution.
I get that they do not want to talk to Hamas - which is understandable - but remember that they have in the past supported Hamas so they should acknowledge their own role in the escalation of the situation.

And yet we have to constantly contend with the Palestinians all being called Hamas members who want rid of Israel. And people against the genocide being called Hamas sympathisers too.

Funny that.

Yes that’s difficult but they should not of allowed Hamas to become this well established in the first place. They’ve been there for what? 15 years?

Israel withdrew from Gaza around 2005. Hamas was voted in. That was the last election held. Given that they had withdrawn "not allowing them to become established" would have looked like a full-blown incursion into a territory they had withdrawn from, likely drawing exactly the same condemnation as now. I don't see how they could have done that.

So is it ok to smear a whole group or not? Your response seems to be emblematic of the whole problem. You know the expression "two wrongs don't make a right"

Smearing an entire government and their attack dogs (army) is fine and absolutely necessary in this instance.

Smearing civilians is not okay even though it happens constantly on here and is used to justify the killing of children.

What do you think should be done about the Israeli settlers?

Hamas is now more than just a group of terrorists. It's an ideology.

I read a horrible stat today. Israel has broken 62 international laws already. Iraq broke 2 and the world including the UK went to war with the country for 8 years. Yet we watch this horror before our eyes and say nothing.

Respect international humanitarian law.

To answer your question they should find a way to take out Hamas that minimises civilian deaths/potential war crimes.

Can you explain how?

What do we do when the breakers of those international laws are not permitted to be criticised?

Therein lies the problem.

Israel withdrew from Gaza around 2005. Hamas was voted in. That was the last election held. Given that they had withdrawn "not allowing them to become established" would have looked like a full-blown incursion into a territory they had withdrawn from, likely drawing exactly the same condemnation as now. I don't see how they could have done that

Hamas were not really voted in though. They took over Gaza by force. They are recognised as terrorists by the wider world. I don’t think it would have been a bad a move for Israel really.

It is not going after Hamas that is the issue, it’s the collective punishments. The blockade drew condemnation because of the effect its having on Palestinians, same as bombing a trapped population is doing now.

Can you explain how?

Step 2: Don’t commit war crimes. Just don’t.

Ah! I didn't realise it was that easy. Thanks for explaining. Maybe send this on a postcard to the IDF, they clearly lack your incisive strategic intelligence.

If two wrongs don't make a right then why are the Israeli authorities meeting violence with violence instead of admitting that they made mistakes with their surveillance and defence measures.