62% of British adults are not taking a side in the Israel-Gaza conflict

[lavender2023]

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2023/10/16/b8bd3/1

Personally as a Jewish person (with family in Israel), I feel heartened by the results as it shows we are a compassionate country who can feel sympathy with both sides or are sensible enough to tick 'don't know' when they feel like they can't understand a complicated foreign conflict. I personally would probably tick 'both sides equally' or 'don't know' because i have such mixed feelings! I was reading some posts yesterday about Jewish people who want to move to Israel because apparently anti-semitism is worse than rockets. There are very valid concerns but we should at least take heart that the majority of people are far more nuanced and not taking sides like one would pick a football team, or are anti Israel . Social media isn't real life

There are regional variations but even in London, 56% of people are not taking sides. The one age group which is pro palestinian is the 18-24 group which is 39%, but at the same time, the combined numbers of 'don't know' and 'both sides' are 40%.

with a valid claim to a homeland

What makes anyone's claim to a homeland "valid?".

There's no point engaging with you. You just don't want to accept that both sides have a case.

Well, if that was easy to answer there would be a lot less conflict in the world! Unfortunately, quite often more than one group could make a case for having their own self-governing state in a particular area - as is the case in this part of the Middle East. It should have been resolved better than it has been, though.

Ecdysiast - your 13.08 post is disgraceful. The Jewish people are a minority ethnoreligious group who have been subject to persecution for thousands of years. I think the belittling tone of your post and use of homosexuality as a facile faux-comic comparable stinks.

Yes, with hindsight, it was futile of me to even try to engage with this antisemitic bile.

I wasn't using a belittling tone at all @Teentaxidriver . I was asking a question: how does being a majority group in a state help with issues such as antisemitism (or homophobia, as in my analogy). If you think that's an insulting analogy then you are homophobic and should be reported.

I think if you wish to engage in this kind of argument you need to develop some critical thinking skills.

A young girl trapped under the rubble. It is upsetting but a reality of bombing civilians. Girl cries for help under rubble of her destroyed home in Gaza | Gaza | Al Jazeera

It was never actually 'death to all Jews'.

I looked up both their original and amended charter this morning and what the stated intention (in the original at least) is the dissolution of Israel, they say that under Islam, Judaism, Christianity and Islam can coexist in peace. Their 2017 charter is basically 'we don't recognise Israel, we'd like it not to exist, and we don't really think it should exist, but we grudgingly accept 1967 borders to be pragmatic'. It talks about how they're shouldn't be any discrimination on the basis of religion and how their issue is with Zionism and Israel not with the Jewish people or faith.

Actions obviously speak louder than words, and I've no doubt that not everyone privately or publicly tows this line (understatement ...) - evidentially not or the atrocities of 7/10 wouldn't have happened.

but i think it's also important not to mislead as to what their charter says.

And the rest are out protesting every weekend...

Oh fuck off, is it my arse!

By your logic I could say you are taking a side that racist murders, racist rapes, racist torture and racist child murders are 'understandable' within the 'context' as long as the victims are Israeli Jews. Is that your side? Are you a racist anti-semite?

It is about carrying out the political design of Israel's extreme, fascist, homophobic, settler right wing party (Google Bezalel Smotrich, Israel's Finance Minister)

Bloody hell, if you don't like conservative, homophobic states, I've got news for you about Palestine... And guess which country its better to be gay or lesbian in, Israel or Palestine? Go on. Take a guess.

The Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich in his own words:

"The Palestinian Authority is a burden, and Hamas is an asset", because Hamas' status as a terrorist organization means that "no one will recognize it, no one will give it status at the [International Criminal Court], no one will let it put forth a resolution at the U.N. Security Council".

In his dual role as Finance Minister and adjunct Minister in the Ministry of Defense, Bezalel Smotrich intends to implement ideas set forth in his "Decisive Plan" (2017)which, foresees: “Flood(ing), simply so, the areas of Judea and Samaria with settlements and Jewish settlers. When this happens, the Palestinians are supposed to understand that they have no chance to get a state of their own, and they would have to choose between one of the three options – a life of subjugation under Israeli rule, emigration, or death”.

(Source and references on Wikipedia)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bezalel_Smotrich

@hologramvirus I don't know, but in
July 2015, after a fatal stabbing attack on the Jerusalem gay pride parade, the current Israeli Finance minister referred to the march as an "abomination" and "worse than beastiality". The following month, he accused LGBT organizations of controlling the media and silencing those who share his conservative views.

I couldn't check what everyones anology, but in reply with how it's different from pakistan is:

It's just the rhyme:

There were ten in the bed, little one said roll over ...Israel is telling Palasteininas rollover into sea.

I am against separate country for israel for the reasons what It is using it as.

Yes there was a place for people once felt unsafe elsewhere. Some Jews came to India, and they settled there. No anti-semitism in India. why Israel distrbing them? how cruel it is with arabs who allowed to settle in their place.

Itamir Ben Gvir (security minister) was interviewed and he said as much. He denied the settlements contravene international law and was laughing about the 'fact' that they will grow and expand until Judea and Samaria (ie the West Bank) becomes wholly inhabited by Jewish settlers.

Six and half a dozen, really.

How is this a rational response?

There's anti-Semitism everywhere.

Wow, you activating old topics by searching my posts. btw were you that mumsnetter keep changing names and chant anti-semitic manthra ever . hmmm

I've never chanted any kind of anti-Semitic mantra why would I? I'm not sure who you're mistaking me for.

Me too! I was deemed insensitive because I had a birthday dinner and posted a picture about it & had not posted anything pro-Palestine. These kind of friends are exhausting

The insidious pretext of this thread, and its original post, is that ‘it’s complicated’ and that ‘we shouldn’t take sides’. That is propaganda in itself. It took an old poll as a starting point, to assuage ignorant people that it’s OK to not know, or to not care about what’s happened to Palestine for 75 years, or to think that it’s probably just an equally two-sided thing and that everyone should just learn to get along etc. etc.

The horrors of the past month, Israel’s relentless killing spree, and Israel’s 200:1 civilian-to-Hamas murder ratio, enacted by supposedly one of the best armies in the world, has raised suspicions in the general UK population and around the world. To the point that people have started educating themselves about it. And the facts speak for themselves.

Modern-day Israel was founded when Zionist militias carried out massacres on over 500 Palestinian villages, much like the horrors we saw unfold on 7th October, on a larger scale.

Israel continues to celebrate the Nakba within their annual Independence Day. Israel’s exile, murder and oppression of Palestinians has not stopped for 75 years.

Israel had killed nearly 250 Palestinians in 2023 before the attacks on 7th October. 7th October was only breaking a ceasefire if you think that Palestinian lives don’t matter. Were you also as outspoken about Israel’s crimes?

Jewish online influencers, even those raised in Zionist households, are now publicly condemning Israel and even Zionism in general. Look up Sim (@simkern), Katie (@sexualityscholar) or Alex (@AlexJoyPucci) on TikTok for example.

This is how far the anger has spread. People in the UK and around the world are not only desperate for a ceasefire, but they are seeing Israel for the occupying aggressor that it is. Their eyes have finally been opened. And from now on in they are very much taking a side, and it is that of the oppressed Palestinians’.

Many people 'not taking a side' are also disgusted by Israels actions but also realise that Hamas care not for Palestinians either and life has been awful under them too. The real tragedy and what it's complicated is because neither side cares about these people. Usually when a country is attacked the government has their backs and will do anything to protect them; they don't have that. Israel stopping and leaving Hamas to carry on isn't a good option but of course neither is the way that Israel is proceeding. As humans we like things to be black and white and for them to have an easy answer- this doesn't.

they are very much taking a side, and it is that of the oppressed Palestinians’.

Most people are doing that, but what does that look like? What's your solution?