62% of British adults are not taking a side in the Israel-Gaza conflict

[lavender2023]

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2023/10/16/b8bd3/1

Personally as a Jewish person (with family in Israel), I feel heartened by the results as it shows we are a compassionate country who can feel sympathy with both sides or are sensible enough to tick 'don't know' when they feel like they can't understand a complicated foreign conflict. I personally would probably tick 'both sides equally' or 'don't know' because i have such mixed feelings! I was reading some posts yesterday about Jewish people who want to move to Israel because apparently anti-semitism is worse than rockets. There are very valid concerns but we should at least take heart that the majority of people are far more nuanced and not taking sides like one would pick a football team, or are anti Israel . Social media isn't real life

There are regional variations but even in London, 56% of people are not taking sides. The one age group which is pro palestinian is the 18-24 group which is 39%, but at the same time, the combined numbers of 'don't know' and 'both sides' are 40%.

As we are freely using the word genocide without reproach now

@Itllbefine6 oh I completely agree with you. The first part of my post in bold was me quoting a previous poster.

As we are freely using the word genocide without reproach now

"Risk of" genocide. So not stating that any events that have already occured are genocide.

Yes, of course it is. It is completely beyond doubt that they make sure their military capability is completely intertwined with civilians. They build tunnels to protect their military but not to protect their civilians. I can't belive we are still having these conversations? Hamas is a brutal terrorist organisation - if you were really pro-Palestinian you would be condemning Hamas for what they do to their own people.

I didn't say it was
Although most people with empathy wouldn't casually dismiss what could become a genocide,
Which implies that the situation must be quite horrific already

Yes, I meant to reply to the previous poster and agree with you. Sorry my post was confusing.

Although most people with empathy wouldn't casually dismiss what could become a genocide,

Oh come on, I've not made digs at you at all so don't accuse me of a lack of empathy. It's not been helpful anywhere in these many discussions, it's manipulative.

True, you are right. digs are not helpful
So apologies if it came across towards you like that
But there has been alot of people minimising or even victim blaming the Palestinians
Many who demand empathy for one side but have yet to show any to the other
(Again that's not to you)

One month after still requesting others to condemn what they condemned a month ago when they speak against Israel’s actions

True, you are right. digs are not helpful
So apologies if it came across towards you like that

Sorry, I didn't meant to be narky either.

@SomeCatFromJapan If you gave a hoot about fighting anti-Semitism you wouldn't be supporting an ethno-religious nationalist apartheid state that commits crimes against humanity in the name of the Jewish people. Jews who speak out against Israel's crimes and say "not in our name" are the ones who are fighting anti-Semitism.

an ethno-religious nationalist apartheid state

Sorry, I don't think I'll find much meaningful engagement when someone is regurgitating this sort of soundbite.

Nice way of deflecting from the point @SomeCatFromJapan . And it's not a sound bite, it's a fact.

@Ecdysiast you need to look up the word apartheid before you start bandying it about. Arabs which make up 2 million in Israel have the same rights as Jewish Israelis- rights and privileges totally foreign and anathema to the apartheid state. This eviscerates the claim of racial discrimination that is underlined in an apartheid state.

Thus the difference in treatment of Arabs in Israel and those in Gaza cannot be defined by racial identify as they are the same. For Apartheid to be true all Arabs would be treated the same and they are not.

The Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza are not citizens and are proactively engaged in armed hostility towards Israel. They want Israel to be gone and don't recognise it so Israel has to take action to protect itself. As a result the area is governed by the law of armed conflict.

Israel treats all its citizens the same whether Jewish or Arab. And Gaza and the West Bank is treated and governed by the law of armed conflict and its policies reflect that. Very different to apartheid.

Most Jewish people do support Israel INCLUDING (and I quote) "Jews who speak out against Israel's crimes and say "not in our name" are the ones who are fighting anti-Semitism". (Although tbqh that sentence is bizarre).

I also recognise @SomeCatFromJapan as being someone that genuinely does give "a hoot" about fighting antisemitism (I have no idea if she's Jewish or not). She's been fighting it on here vociferously, in good faith, for weeks.

This old chestnut!
Arab-Israelis may have the same rights as Israelis on paper but if you’ve lived there you’ll know in practice it’s not true. Arab-Israelis barely live together in the same neighbourhoods. Relations are strained between Arabs and Jews. Very few attend the same schools. They’re socio-economically disadvantaged and systematically discriminated against. Arab neighbourhoods in mixed cities don’t get the same funding. Arab political parties have long struggled to get any meaningful representation in Israeli government and are therefore unable to shape policy to help their own communities. The Israeli government has become increasingly more right wing (Itamar Ben Gvir who is an appalling racist, Tzipi Hotpvely who is also a nasty piece of work). In fact there’s discrimination against Israel’s own black Jews from their white counterparts with systematic discrimination.

and that’s the so-called civilised Israeli society.

things are even more dire in the occupied territories in the West Bank. Look at Hebron: entire streets where Palestinians aren’t allowed to walk down or open a business or drive a car. Routinely stopped and searched at checkpoints on their way to work. Unable to leave a particular district. That’s an apartheid.

@Stomacharmeleon I am not using the word apartheid lightly. Palestinian citizens of Israel are treated as second-class citizens of Israel at best. In 2021 the Israeli parliament adopted the Jewish Nation-State Law, which formalises the inferior status of the Palestinian people. Palestinians in the West Bank have long been living under Israeli military rule: Israel decides where they can go and when. Palestinian towns in the WB are filled with road blocks and military outposts and surrounded by illegal Jewish settlements. The Israeli military regularly stops people, including ambulances and many people have died at checkpoints because they couldn't make it to hospitals on time.

Jewish settlers on the West Bank travel on special "Jewish only" roads, and Jewish settlers get special licence plates to distinguish them. They are not subject to checkpoints and road blocks. Jewish settlements are supplied with an abundance of water (so they can have pretty fountains in the midst of a water crisis) and can come and go as they please. I have been there and witnessed it for myself. There is no ther way to describe it than apartheid.

The guardian has a good piece on it, it says its certainly heading towards being a apartheid state

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/19/israel-apartheid-state-south-africa-netanyahu

And what is that way?

The author who once rejected the notion that israel is a apartheid state draws parallels between apartheid south Africa and Israel

An excerpt from the article

The article is quite an eye opener

I do not support genocide and I'm gutted it's coke to this. I also don't support Hamas and think they're disgusting too so I think that's not taking a side. You can agree it's genocide without taking a side

I'm sorry if I've missed this as I haven't had chance to read the full thread but are you saying Christians don't care about innocent people dying as a result of terrorism and genocide?

If you’ve ever wondered how genocides happen, and why no-one stops them, well you’re currently witnessing one happening in Gaza in real time, and people here on Mumsnet trying to justify it.

On one hand you’ve got top Israeli politicians and military personnel who are stating, for example:

“Erase the Gazan monsters from the face of the earth”.

“They are animals”.

“There’s no such thing as a Palestinian people…wipe them out”.

“the aim of revenge, zero morality, maximum corpses”.

"there is no population in Gaza, there are 2.5 million terrorists."

“We are the people of light, they are the people of darkness”.

Look up Galit Distel Atbaryan, Yoav Gallant, Bezalel Smotrich for example. And of course Netanyahu.

On the other hand you’ve got top UN officials stating:
“It’s genocide”.
“It’s ethnic cleansing”.