62% of British adults are not taking a side in the Israel-Gaza conflict

[lavender2023]

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2023/10/16/b8bd3/1

Personally as a Jewish person (with family in Israel), I feel heartened by the results as it shows we are a compassionate country who can feel sympathy with both sides or are sensible enough to tick 'don't know' when they feel like they can't understand a complicated foreign conflict. I personally would probably tick 'both sides equally' or 'don't know' because i have such mixed feelings! I was reading some posts yesterday about Jewish people who want to move to Israel because apparently anti-semitism is worse than rockets. There are very valid concerns but we should at least take heart that the majority of people are far more nuanced and not taking sides like one would pick a football team, or are anti Israel . Social media isn't real life

There are regional variations but even in London, 56% of people are not taking sides. The one age group which is pro palestinian is the 18-24 group which is 39%, but at the same time, the combined numbers of 'don't know' and 'both sides' are 40%.

The slaughter of innocent people is not justified one iota, I think it's tricky though because it's not like Hamas have treated people in Gaza well either, what's the solution? It's clearly not heavy bombing of buildings filled with civilians that's for sure, but it's also not letting another group of terrorists once again take hold and expand either. The real issue is that neither Israel nor Hamas care about people in Gaza- both have said clearly and demonstrated that they see them as expendable to further their own agendas. Usually when a territory is attacked the people within have their government onside to try and protect them, we don't see this here. It's clear this shouldn't go on as is, but there also isn't a clear cut solution. Really heartbreaking.

I have not posted on this topic as I don't claim to have sufficient knowledge or understand and no suggestions to offer to resolve the deadlock between two entrenched positions. I have just read this article which resonated with me:
https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4286557-to-be-pro-palestinian-you-must-be-anti-hamas/

In Israel there appears to be strong political support for a more concilliatory government and a credible opposition to the current right-wing, which given Israel's actions in Gaza is gaining considerable support from Jews worldwide. I hold out hope that they may replace the current Government in the future.

What I would be able to support is an anti-Hamas political movement from Palestinian supporters but I have yet to see anything emerging. Whilst I appreciate that this may not be overtly possible in Gaza itself, presumably there is something equivalent to the French Resistance with backing from Palestinians elsewhere? If anyone can point me in the direction of such an organisation I would love to know more about it.

Thanks for sharing @Leftinlimbo but that article is not nuanced at all. It takes the view that Hamas is the root of the conflict, and that without Hamas everything would be fine between Israel and the Palestinians. This is absolutely not the case. Hamas is a fairly recent development, and the movement grew as a result of the perceived failures of many attempts at negotiated, non-violent solutions. Yasser Arafat signed up to the Oslo agreements with Israel and what happened? More Israeli settlements on Palestinian land, continued Israeli military occupation. If you look at the map today of the the Palestinian land that has been lost over the past 30 years due to Israeli settlements it is clear that a 2 state solution to the conflict is not even possible anymore - a Palestinian state needs land and Israel has taken most of it.

I find it astounding that despite the fact that Israel is one of the most militaristic societies in the world, (receiving 14 BILLION US dollars in military aid and possessing nuclear arms) AND is the OCCUPYING power in this conflict, the Palestinians are the ones repeatedly told that they should resist 'non-violently'. I didn't hear anyone tell the Ukrainians to resist non-violently, but I guess the Palestinians do not deserve the same rights as others.

You can see in the last column that the West Bank is broken into little pieces. The Israeli settlements are eating away at it. And that was 2012. Much worse now.

@Ecdysiast does not wanting to 'resist non violently' give anyone carte Blanche to act in the complete opposite way. Surely there is a middle ground. If you feel you have to do something.
It's the nature of the acts. The sheer level of brutality. The dehumanising, the raping. It's so targeted and brutal.
And inexcusable.

@Stomacharmeleon I never said targeting civilians was admirable. I was simply pointing out the double standard in the way the violence is reported. When the Israeli army commits horrible atrocities against innocents, nobody talks about disarming Israel. Nobody asks the Israel army of they condemn the killing of civilians. But if Hamas does it, they are unequivocally condemned and told to lay down their arms. And I am not speaking only about what has happened for the past 4 weeks.

I honestly can't tell if you're talking about Hamas or the IDF in your last paragraph.

@ChickHenLittle you know full well who I am talking about. Those that there are verifiable claims of raping women until their pelvis' have broken. Women who have been filmed after being violated by monsters on October 7th on camera being dragged about after being raped. Shani Louk.

So take your faux ignorance elsewhere....

@Stomacharmeleon History didn't start on October the 7th. Google Deir Yassin.

Well said.

Not faux ignorance, that was the point. It is hard to distinguish. Given context of your posts I can tell, but if I said, in my first ever post on MN, "I'm against the group targeting and killing innocents, not caring if children are harmed or even viewing the other "side" as worthy of living", you'd struggle to know if I meant Hamas or the IDF.
I couldn't defend the actions of either the IDF or Hamas, I don't think many could now.

@Ecdysiast I am well aware of history in that area and your point is? If we are talking about atoning for historical events the reason that sticks out is that it was unique at that time.

Four days after that event a Jewish convoy was ambushed on the way to Hadassah hospital killing 77 Jews including doctors, nurses, patients and the director of the hospital. Another 23 were injured. That massacre attracted little attention and after the partition decision some 500 Jews were killed in the first four months.

@Stomacharmeleon You were suggesting that the October 7th attacks were somehow worse than the atrocities Israel has been committing against the Palestinians for over 75 years. And that Oct 7th gives Israel carte blanche to continue with its brutal attempt to wipe Palestinians off the map once and for all.

So my previous response to @Ecdysiast was deleted, but my question still stands - Are any Palestinians in Gaza fighting against Hamas? Are Palestinians outside of Gaza or the Middle East calling for the destruction of Hamas? Where is the alternative diplomatic leadership for Palestine?

Do all Palestinians now need to preface anything they say with "I do not support Hamas"? Will you ask the same of Northern Irish people, to ensure they don't support the IRA? Or is it just Palestinians?
I can see why your previous post was deleted.

Left in limbo well there is Fattah, but in all honesty if you look at the west bank these people are being erased like the Gaza Palestinians just more slowly.

I 100% agree with what you've said here, OP (I'm not Jewish).

OP I would challenge your thinking & rhetoric.

In some of your comments you describe in great detail & with extremelyemotive language in detail the horrors of October 7
Eg " rape, murder, beheaded, killed etc

But

When referring to the bombing of Gaza and the horrors being visited on the children and civilians there you couch it in terms such as
"Current situation in Gaza"

It appears you have picked a side. I get that's uncomfortable.

Imho

People SHOULD be picking a side here.
The side that calls out Israel for their hideous war crimes & demands a ceasefire.

Murdering children & bombing hospitals &'schools is not self defence.

There is no justification for the murderous actions of Israel.

I am heartened to see the marches and demos in almost every major city in the UK and further afield. I am heartened to see the Jewish people campaigning outside the White House & in those marches shouting "not in my name"

It is entirely possible to call out anti semitism & islamophobia in the same breath as demanding a ceasefire

That is the side of right & good & decency.

When we said never again
We meant never again to anyone

Maybe whilst they’re burying their kids they can give you the answer.

Yeah, seriously. They are being bombed to shit, starved of food and water, grieving loved ones but are they out there fighting Hamas too and planning for a democratic leadership in the future? They don't even know if there will be a future. Israel have said that they want a Nakba greater than the Nakba of '48.

@Ecdysiast where did I say that? I was responding to your statements.

Yes, agree with this. The sheer level of brutality the IDF and radical Jewish settlers display in the West Bank is startling, the daily dehumanising of Palestinian people, the daily ransacking of their homes, the burning of their crops, the bulldozing of their homes, the rape of Palestinian women, the Palestinian children being manhandled and attacked and held in Israeli jails. So targeted and so very brutal. I’m glad you say it’s inexcusable because the Israeli government either support this directly or turn a blind eye.

Well 50% are children and the adults are just trying to survive atm.
How do you expect them to fight Hamas, they’re malnourished, shell shocked, sleep deprived and bereaved.
And they don’t have any weapons.

@leftinlimbo
You must have realised by now that everyone avoids answering this question.