62% of British adults are not taking a side in the Israel-Gaza conflict

[lavender2023]

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2023/10/16/b8bd3/1

Personally as a Jewish person (with family in Israel), I feel heartened by the results as it shows we are a compassionate country who can feel sympathy with both sides or are sensible enough to tick 'don't know' when they feel like they can't understand a complicated foreign conflict. I personally would probably tick 'both sides equally' or 'don't know' because i have such mixed feelings! I was reading some posts yesterday about Jewish people who want to move to Israel because apparently anti-semitism is worse than rockets. There are very valid concerns but we should at least take heart that the majority of people are far more nuanced and not taking sides like one would pick a football team, or are anti Israel . Social media isn't real life

There are regional variations but even in London, 56% of people are not taking sides. The one age group which is pro palestinian is the 18-24 group which is 39%, but at the same time, the combined numbers of 'don't know' and 'both sides' are 40%.

If there was terrorist infrastructure in Calais and some people from Calais somehow entered UK borders, murdered, raped, beheaded and burned to death thousands of Britons and took a couple of hundred of Britons back with them (including children of mumsnetters), you can bet Mumsnet would be saying we should shell the hell out of Calais to destroy the terrorist infrastructure.

The problem though is that the terrorist infrastructure is under hospitals and schools and residential buildings and the terrorists are hiding in the tunnels also known as the gaza metro. And so innocents die. I hate it and I think the way the Israeli government are doing it is wrong but I can see why the Israelis are so emotional about this.

Shame on anyone who thinks this is “complicated”.

Shame on anyone too ignorant to not understand that it's complicated.

When I was young, someone said that in a conflict, you should support the most civilised side. So, it's Israel for me, every time.

If two wrongs don't make a right, how many do?

Absolutely this

I cant even engage with people with such black and white thinking that they cant understand the grey and the nuance of this entire situation.

Thank god people like that arent diplomats and arent in charge of current negotiation and liaison.

I think Hamas has been the government since 2006 and so normal life is connected to Hamas. Like i read somewhere that if you wanted to run a business in Gaza, you needed to be a Hamas Party member. It grew out of a Muslim charity established in 1973 and has a large social service wing.

My DH is Jewish but like Shani Louk (may her memory be a blessing), his mum is German but converted to Judaism. Like many germans, her grandfather was a Nazi party member (as he owned a printing press) and her father was also in the Hitler Youth (until his mum pulled him out but that was seen as very brave as all children had to be in the hitler youth). I am glad however that the Americans did not kill every German woman and child on the basis that they were probably involved in Nazi party or youth organizations. My DH would never have been born.

Hamas is also known to break the legs and arms of people who oppose them and that is probably the sanitized version of what they do to opponents.

https://nypost.com/2023/10/10/german-tattoo-artist-shani-louk-believed-to-be-alive-after-hamas-kidnapping-mom-says/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/german-israeli-shani-louk-seen-paraded-by-terrorists-in-gaza-confirmed-dead/

I don't think people are as neutral as this, many are afraid to say how they feel incase they are accused of antisemitism. The "chilling effect" has been a thing for years.

I'm on the side of all innocent civilians who are caught up in this war, regardless of their origin.

just stop. There will never be any justification for what Israel is doing. Even wars have rules. Israel has cut off water. It has cut off food. It has stopped electricity. It has cut off fuel. It has cut off the internet.

I don’t care if Hamas are dancing on top of beds in the hospital singing Shakira Shakira. You do not bomb schools. You do not starve people to death. You do not dehydrate people to death. You do not stop fuel for hospital incubators. You do not bomb a refugee camp as they did today. Those are people already living in tents FFS.

Israel has killed over 200 people in the West Bank this week. Hamas does not operate there.

it makes me want to vomit that we even have to debate this.

I'd assume that polls are anonymous.

But, I could also say that nobody wants to be perceived as not caring about dead babies.

Not taking sides is not the same as supporting an immediate ceasefire.

But I'm the case of neutrality I think it's often a case if 'I'm alright Jack'. The war is far away, they are 'foreigners' so as long as it's NIMBY who cares. Contrast with the Ukraine/Russia war. Churches were "praying for Ukraine", my dc's schools were doing fundraisers and special assemblies. Not a thing mentioned this time. When they aren't blonde gaired/blue eyed it doesn't feel as real I suppose.

you’re right - the question of whether it’s morally or legally acceptable to starve people to death is soooo complicated.

theres so much nuance to deciding whether dehydrating people to death is ok.

how ignorant of me to assume it was black and white.

I support a ceasefire

Im aware that is seen by some Israelis as therefore supporting Hamas. Ive also talked about how terrorism and extremism is bred out of extreme lives that people live under occupation or colonisation. Apparently that makes me anti semitic.

I see what is happening now as akin to genocide and that also makes me anti semitic to point it out

Im not stupid enough to believe that Palestinians want/support an Israeli Jewish state to exist in the middle east. When Ive pointed that out on other threads Ive been accused of justifying genocide and viewing Palestinians as non human.

Thats just on this forum, imagine how polarised it is in real life, on the ground, for the people involved.

So many people wont know, many people are like me and can see its complicated (because it is) and many people dont want to say.

I blame Hammas for the deaths of the innocent. They've provoked it on purpose and it delights them every time a dead baby is photographed and shared. It's literally what they want.

And I don't think Hammas represent a tiny minority. A sizeable chunk of the civilian population think killing Jews is fantastic (not even just Israelis).

It's hard to parse out from the opinion polls over the past couple of years who believes what, as it's often clouded by their feelings about the actual Hammas regime, but the great majority don't want a two state solution, or to attempt a peaceful single state - they want the Jews gone. And a sizeable chunk of those people think that armed conflict is how to achieve that.

https://thehill.com/opinion/4273883-mellman-do-palestinians-support-hamas-polls-paint-a-murky-picture/amp/#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16987744278014&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com

What I'm not OK with is how Israel has taken the bait and been so eager to give Hammas exactly what they want.

One dead baby is too many.

But there are far many dead palestinian babies in this conflict than Israeli ones. There are hundreds of thousands more that are slowly dying of dehydration, starvation and diarrhea.

There are babies that have been killed on the same day they are born.
Babies with limbs blown off
I read about one toddler who had his foot amputated with only mild sedation whilst his sibling waited to be next.

If someone is thinking of the babies, it's the babies of Gaza that need help right now.

Id rather be ignorant than someone who is so lacking is basic humanity that they think killing children, starving civilians to death and withholding water from a civilian population is a complicated issue.

Who are you blaming for the 200 killed by Israel this week in the West Bank where there’s no Hamas ? Is the tooth fairy to blame for that one ?

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/what-palestinians-really-think-hamas

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/28/west-bank-spike-israeli-killings-palestinian-children

I support Israel's right to exist and I hope they defeat Hamas.

I dont think they are perfect either, Netanyahu isn't a good man and the situation in the West Bank is untenable.

I hate the death and destruction occurring now but I think some blame for that must lie with Hamas, for the October 7 attacks, embedding themselves in civilian populations, using civilian body counts as a PR tool, firing rockets at Israel, and having the destruction of Israel as they key objective, triggering the blockade of Gaza.

I'm well aware that it is Israel dropping the bombs on vulnerable people.
I know Hamas infrastructure and fighters need to be destroyed but this is ugly and awful.

I am seeing so much white supremacy in these threads, on the news etc i

israel=civilised, bombing the shit out of 1000s of people is civilised, breaking international just like us they are

palestine= forrin and uncivilised, what they deserve, yeah soz

I was absolutely horrified by what hamas did, I still am but it seems I’m not allowed to be horrified and worried about how far they are going to annihilate Palestinians and I was quite neutral before but some of the stuff people are coming out with has made me question quite a lot of things and see these injustices and silencing techniques, the double standards. Mumsnet has been eye opening.

Israel is not a majority white country though so how is this white supremacy?

60% of Jewish Israelis are POC- Yemenite, ethopians, middle eastern etc. I myself am Jewish and not white. Not sure what white supremacy has to do with anything

Given that Judaism is also a religion you can convert to (regardless of what colour or origin you are ) and that Israel also allows converts to make Aliyah (shani louk who was brutally raped and murdered is a child of a convert) not sure how white supremacy plays into this..