The number of children killed in Gaza in 3 weeks is more than the total number killed in armed conflict globally last year!

[Ohlalalalala]

https://www.savethechildren.org.uk/news/media-centre/press-releases/gaza-childrens-deaths-in-last-three-weeks-surpasses-total-child-#:~:text=The%20number%20of%20children%20reported%20killed%20in%20just%20three%20weeks,for%20the%20last%20three%20years.

The number of children reported killed in just three weeks in Gaza is more than the number killed in armed conflict globally – across more than 20 countries – over the course of a whole year, for the last three years.

It's incomprehensible.

Palestinians children have also been held and detained by isreal forces for years under 'administrative rule' with no charge.
Palestinians aren't treated as humans. They certainly don't have any rights or protection.

I felt awful yesterday, washing my kids' clothes, cooking a stew for dinner, normal things that are so far detached from Palestinians right now, and I felt awful. 14000 sheltering in hospitals which are targets. Writing their childrens names on their legs and bellies so they can be identified. So far removed from my life and just should not be happening.

As if.

@Comedycook This thread is about the Palestinian children that are being killed by Israel and I’m not going to engage with you anymore unless that’s what you decide to start posting about. If you want to start a thread about Jewish children murdered by Nazis in the Holocaust start your own thread.

As if indeed. As if the people in Gaza would then be quietly oppressed by Israel. You can’t bomb people into submission but you can create a new wave of terrorists who after living a life of oppression create a new terrorist group to replace Hamas.

Even if the bombing stopped (which it clearly wouldn't), it would still leave 2.3m trapped, thousands of imprisoned Palestinians including innocent civilians and children, West Bank land stolen, children tried, killed and tortured and imprisoned, petty humiliation, subjugation, lack of human rights, treated like animals, not to mention the mess left over etc etc. Israel have also explicitly said they will take Gazan land after this conflict (laying bare their aims there, shame on them).

What do you think about the situation before? Can you justify it? Do you honestly think Hamas wasn't created in a vacuum, as the UN head recently pointed out? (and incidentally was helped to be funded and created by Israeli govt).

You can cover your eyes and ears and pretend it wasn't happening, that it all was started by "Hamas" without considering the wider situation before, but you'd be intentionally self-deluding and refusing to face the facts.

And just to add my usual addendum "no I do not condone hamas" before your robot chant starts.

I was responding to the poster who had originally mentioned children during the Holocaust.

The majority of olim have never been from western countries. Whether Russian Jews

'According to Jewish Agency data for the period between September 1, 2021, and September 1, 2022, 26,000 olim arrived from Russia; 14,000 olim from Ukraine — most arriving on Jewish Agency rescue operations during the war; 3,800 from the U.S. and Canada, with assistance from Nefesh B’Nefesh; 2,500 from France; 1,600 from Belarus; 1,450 olim from Ethiopia were reunited with their relatives in Israel as part of Operation Tzur Israel; 1,100 from Argentina; 600 from the United Kingdom; 500 from South Africa and 400 from Brazil.'

If you are asking me to choose between Russia (where my DH can be drafted to kill Ukrainians) and Israel, I will choose Israel. They will not draft untrained olim, my BIL who was born Israeli (but in America) isn't even in the reservist. I heard south africa is also quite unstable, so possibly Israel as well. The ones from USA, Canada and UK, only number 4400. That is not very many. Even if they become zero (which they wouldn't because families have their own reasons for relocating, it still is not a large drop. Furthermore in the USA, if you want to send your children to Jewish school which is necessary if you are orthodox, you have to pay private fees which is an issue with high inflation in the USA and further compounded if you have 7 kids. The margins have always been tight even for higher income orthodox Jews, I can't imagine how they are coping now. A relocation to Israel means no more school fees for 7 kids.

my younger SIL is still resolutely ploughing through her aliyah application (and she has no kids, plus in the UK there are excellent jewish state schools plus she has a free place to stay in London near Jewish community). She refuses to come back to the UK because she doesn't want to jeopardize her aliyah application. So it has not put her off. She has a boyfriend in Israel though so that probably does change things. She isn't the settler sort either!

It says a lot that that was the only post in this thread you felt compelled to respond to.

What does it say?

It wouldn't. The IDF would then finish what they have started, in the name of killing every single terrorist ( babies and children included. They could grow up as terrorists after all. Can't risk that)

Unfortunately, this is assuming there will be any Palestinians left to create this.

Maybe bombing them won't cause submission, but it will erradicate them, so submission isn't required.

Certainly, there won't be anyone left soon in Gaza, probably lots more deaths in in West Bank. Lots of prisoners will continue to be taken without charge to join the 17000 already incarcerated. Probably a lot will die of 'natural causes', so very few left overall to create and replace hamas.

I doubt WB will be obliterated due to its significance, but the ultimate destruction and mass murder of Gaza will have an impact, and yes, like with any oppression, people turn to extremes.

Thank you @Ohlalalalala for this thread and your excellent posts on many other threads. One thing that haunts me to this day is the testimony from one of the Palestinian mothers whose 5 month old baby was killed as a result of Israel’s bombing. It stuck with me so much that I read through all the list of names of Palestinians killed which was released until I found the name of her baby there.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cy0CmQbu_Yw/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

@feralunderclass Very interesting article from 7 years ago as well, https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/israel-emigration-to-uk-outstrips-aliya-says-report-434751

According to Tal Ofer, an Israeli member of the Board of Deputies, aliya numbers may be lower than those of incoming Israelis because “British Jews know they are better off in the UK economically.”“Around 500-600 Brits make aliya every year, while many more Israelis come to the UK using both Israeli & EU passports.

Outflow was 600 7 years ago, so seems it has stayed the same. So despite all the people I know who make aliyah in my social circle (50% of DH's family), they are an absolute minority in statistical terms.

Hence British Jews really shouldn't be blamed for Israeli actions. given most of us would never even dream of moving to Israel.

I think they haven't been told that 2.3 million people are in a prison with no electricity food or water.

I'm currently applying for British passports for my baby and toddler so we can then get Israeli passports to make Aliyah. To be honest, we'd rather be in an Israel at war than here in the UK.

I am so sorry to hear that, where do you live. I don't dare to go to central london on saturdays anymore because of the demonstrations but I still go to synagogue (which is in central london but a quieter part). my patch of north london seems fine though there were demonstrations by the support palestine movement at my local cinema who was doing a showing of the movie Golda. Most of the attendees were elderly people participating in their synagogue's out and about club and the protestors were told to kindly fuck off.

Urm they know that and they feel very sorry for the Gazans. A lot of Israelis even used to drive Gazans to medical appointments (including one of the activists who has now been kidnapped by Hamas). They just think that the terrorist are hiding behind the civilian population and they can't really coexist with the terrorists.

I think they are in fight or flight mode now tbh.

@lavender2023 it may not be your intention but your posts highlighting how hard it is for Israelis is derailing this thread. The number of dead children is unimaginable, there are many threads ' to discuss the your thoughts but to me it's in poor taste to talk about how scared the Israelis are, how scared people are in London to head to the synagogue when there are thousands of dead children dying in Gaza. Dying in the dark. Starving. No access to medical care.
I'm starting to wonder if you're a bot? Or paid to write about Israelis suffering in threads that highlight the plight of Palestinians to derail?

People asked on this thread if Israelis know about the suffering of Palestinian children. As someone with family in Israel, I answered that. They do, but they are blinded by fear. This is causing problems in their judgment.

The israeli government is responding in this way firstly because they are fascists, secondly because they think that if they don't respond in this way, the population would not let them off the hook given the security failures. So they think that the only way to calm the fears of Israeli people is to respond with more violence which is the worst possible reaction but there you go.

Thats how we get even more human tragedy. A vicious cycle of violence.

This happens a lot on these threads and its slightly changing my sympathy for people. Threads constantly getting derailed with posts detailing how people in Israel were killed, using really graphic descriptions. Posts about how hamas use civilians as sheilds. Posts about how scared Jewish people are to go out. On and on. There are separate threads detailing each of these things but certain posters feel the need to try to bring any posts about the 8000 people killed in Gaza to an abrupt end by bringing it back to how bad Israel had been treated.
And if you don't like it you are reported as being antisemitic. Which you clearly aren't but if you refuse to follow the pro Israel narrative you are deleted. And accused of all sorts. I've never seen mn this one sided in nearly 20 years here. It's a shame really.

I'm not sure if I posted this on this thread or not but here it is:

The art of deception: How Israel uses ‘hasbara’ to whitewash its crimes

https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/the-art-of-deception-how-israel-uses-hasbara-to-whitewash-its-crimes-46775

The Israelis have long relied on a public diplomacy strategy to dominate the arena of narrative control and information manipulation.

@lavender2023 your constant long posts on these threads are always mainly about your family's experiences, purely anecdotal. I appreciate that there are people suffering on both sides and have watched as other threads have been derailed by posts like yours (constantly shifting the focus to Israel, aliya and your family), but what the OP has shared is an unimaginable statistic on child deaths in Gaza. I hope the derailing is not intentional. It's hard enough to be discussing this conflict without constant accusations of being an anti semite but it would be the decent thing to do to let people have space to focus on Gazans without diverting the focus to Israel' and Jewish people in the Uk.

@Ohlalalalala Thank you for sharing OP. There are lots of posts on MN that are pro-Israel that come across as robotic and I'm wondering if this is a bot? Or people trained to respond.

In case this makes you feel any better: some of the bravest, most decent, most human people I have had the privilege of interacting with have been Jewish Israelis!

The activists who, back in the 2nd intifada, came to help my Palestinian family during the olive harvest to protect them from violent settlers? Jewish Israelis!

The people currently raising the alarm over the exact same issue, over settlers, literally!, using the opportunity this all out war on Gaza has created to drive entire Palestinian villages away? Jewish Israelis!

The people speaking out that they have lost family - as recently as 7/10, who more so than them should be forgiven for lashing out in anger? - saying that they do not want revenge? Jewish Israelis!

I have honestly met so many great, generous, wonderful Jewish Israelis in my now 20 year involvement with this topic!

And, yes, I am more than familiar with what you are describing! After all, I was married to a Palestinian man for over a decade and spent significant time in the occupied West Bank - including a time of living there! I know perfectly well! But I think the point you make about it being "trauma" is really relevant here! I will never forget that day when three armed to the teeth teenagers and their armoured personnel carrier held me at gunpoint for over an hour. I was the tiniest blonde woman and, needless to say: unarmed - and they seemed utterly terrified of me. I was quite afraid they would shoot me out of sheer fear if I moved too suddenly. I understood something vital about this conflict that day: how deeply, deeply afraid many Israelis are!

Anyway, your post sounded so deflated, my main point was: Jewish Israelis include some truly wonderful humans! Maybe you feel like making contact with some of them? Might help the sense of despair a little!

How lovely to be able to have that option but what a shame it comes at the cost of so much human suffering.