How effective is Israeli bombing, anyway?

[mushti]

According to Hamas figures, Israel has dropped 12,000 tonnes of explosives on Gaza. 6000 people have died.

Hamas terrorists killed 1400 Jews with just what they could carry on trucks and motorbikes.

It almost looks like Israel is trying to minimize casualties, doesn't it?

The bodies were burnt from a Hamas rocket that still had fuel on board - cos it fell short - the bodies weren't killed by a normal explosion

Hamas lie all the time, these people kidnapped 3yr olds ffs. I saw their spokesman having his arse handed to him on a Saudi news interview, he claimed they only targeted military and the hostages are military any civilians killed were by accident apparently. I don’t believe their numbers (any of them).

Hamas are still firing rockets into Gaza so I imagine they are bombing launch sites as well as buildings known to be hamas occupied or where there may be tunnels.

Feel so sorry for Palestinians and I desperately want the water turned on and medical and food aid to be given out. But don’t think Israel are just chucking bombs willynilly.

Such fascinating reports such as quoting an intel meeting saying "trust us, it wasn't Israel/our ally".

Brilliant.

So, I'll just ignore the evidence I can see because someone in authority said I'm wrong. Then didn't substantiate it.

"Your honour, I put forth the accused is innocent. Case closed."

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/24/world/middleeast/gaza-hospital-israel-hamas-video.html

I know it's hard to imagine the area being bombed constantly by the IAF actually had a bomb go off in it after multiple warnings and actual impacts nearby, but please bear with me. It may just be that someone is lying.

And no, reality conforming to what Hamas says does not mean you like beheading babies. It just means you're objective. It's like saying anything Trump says is wrong because he's Trump. It's dubious logic.

Tbf in a poll before all this started something like 70% of Gazans supported the idea of the PLO taking over the administration of Gaza. There have been protests against Hamas for just being generally shit. So anyone thinking Hamas genuinely represents Gazans and therefore in anyway support them is off the mark. They also have form for imprisoning and torturing journalists they don’t like.

Their spokesman was defending attacking Israel despite anticipating the backlash by listing how many people the vietnamese “sacrificed” to fight the USA, the number of Tunisians the number of xyz martyrs in xyz countries. They really do not care about Gazans being bombed, they don’t care about civilian casualties at all.

That article is talking about video footage that was shared after the blast saying it was following the wrong rocket. They are saying everyone was looking at footage of a completely different rocket not the one that hit the carpark. I’m assuming that multiple intelligence agencies figured that one out. It’s debunking a video not making a claim about whos rocket it was and quite fairly pointing out that there are a lot of rockets being fired in the vicinity.

NYT obviously doesn’t have access to all the other information intelligence agencies would have access to. I believe the USA had access to infra red sensors, satellite tracking etc as well as bomb blast experts.

The more I've read posts and watched videos on forums or social media. The more I'm realising how much of a cult Israel is. The indoctrination runs so deep. The lack of regard for human life if it isn't Israeli is telling and I think will be Israels own undoing.

Israel have a western military doctrine where you try to minimize your military casualties inside a build up city by flattering it first.
If you compare the most recent street fighting in Bahmut, Russia lost 20 000 solders trying to take the city.
Put it to intimately bigger area of Gaza plus tunnels under the city I can't even imagine Israeli casualties in the street fighting.

Indeed. This has been superceded. There have been lots of experts in military etc rather than journalists giving their best shot 😉

A twitter feed of a journalist doesn't usually trump independent experts either as I was attempting to say to other person who is stuck with original finding 🙄

I don’t think anyone can really answer the question in the thread title. But it does prompt another issue for which there’s a clear answer.

I don’t know, and I doubt anyone outside of Israeli defence intelligence or Hamas knows, how effective Israel’s bombing is.

But I can say with confidence that many of the voices in the media and elsewhere that oppose Israel’s actions would oppose any action taken by Israel. Because they oppose the existence of Israel and its citizens altogether.

Telling they don't release it then and keep people discussing a thing from days ago while they bomb more hospitals. Textbook atrocity laundering.

You are a disgusting troll and should be banned from this site.

The comments I refer to have come from actual military experts online and testimony that directly contradicts what the IDF put out.

Additionally, the IDF tweeted themselves that they hit the hospital literally minutes after it was hit. Then that tweet got deleted.

Apply Occam's razor and it's pretty obvious the Western intelligence agencies are full of shit. Remember that totally not doctored "phone call" between two terrorists?

Many oppose the actions of Israel because they contravene the Geneva convention. There are rules in war that must be followed and Israel has been flaunting them for decades.
Of course, Israel has a right to existence but not at the expense of Palestine.

Look either you are objective about a narrow question or you are not. The point you were making was that hamas didn’t do it. The article you posted doesn’t say that. It doesn’t matter what your view is on the conflict as a whole. The answer will be either that rocket was launched from Gaza or Israel. Only one of those things can be true. Believing something because you just want it to be true is your prerogative.

Are you saying Hamas follow the Geneva convention

Indeed. This has been superceded. There have been lots of experts in military etc rather than journalists giving their best shot 😉

With all due respect that statement just by itself doesn’t mean much. Can you link to some of the evidence/sources you’re thinking of? * *

Bombing isn’t as effective as you think when it comes to killing people and the people of Gaza have lived under bombardment for years. They’ll sleep in cellars and under stairs to stay protected. Whilst they aren’t specifically targeting civilians, they aren’t being particularly careful about protecting them either.

The problem the IDF have is that in order to protect civilian life the you’ll have to risk your own troops life.

What people seem to want to ignore is that Israel have spent billions building theiry iron dome to protect their citizens whereas Hamas have spent billions of aid money in building tunnels underground to protect themselves while firing rockets at Israel from heavily built up civilian areas.
Were Israel not to have the iron dome their casualty levels would be immeasurably higher.

The article, as I mentioned, is the latest thing casting doubt on the Hamas rocket, not the totality of evidence against that story.

There is enough doubt that anything the IDF put out, as with previous instances of them lying about their conduct, should be taken with a grain of salt.

I see the genocide apologists are out in force tonight. Good job guys -keep fighting the good fight trying to convince the world you’ve got right on your side when you’re starving, dehydrating and carpet bombing a civilian population of refugees whose land you stole.

The Israelis are indeed wiping out whole city blocks. The evidence is there. Pictures after pictures after pictures.

Well, the US has spent billions building the iron dome.

@Struggggggling I was thinking about that this week. I like reading about cults and a lot of the features here are the same. Also when you hear from people who are former Zionists it all sounds extremely cultish. Also hearing the same lies and lines and justifications over and over and over from people all over the world. It's like a script or like politicians from the same party being given the same press lines and parroting them out.

Sorry would you mind posting that evidence please.