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Conflict in the Middle East

To be horrified re the 2000+ children killed in Gaza.

390 replies

SoShallINever · 24/10/2023 22:57

The news tonight was unbearable.
I am sickened that the West is not calling for a ceasefire or some restraint.
I found out today that Gaza is almost exactly the same size as the small Hebridean island of Jura. But whereas Jura has a few hundred residents, Gaza has 2.4 million packed in. You couldn't throw a stone into Gaza without it hitting someone, never mind a missile.
The children of Gaza are not terrorists and I wish Israel would stop.

OP posts:
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17
bathrobeandpie · 25/10/2023 09:28

Coughingdodger · 25/10/2023 08:57

It’s so odd. We’re watching innocent people being murdered live on TV night after night and no one is stopping it.

we always do.

Entire populations are being victims of genocide across the world, and we do not much, more often than not we do not care.

We occasionally send support when it's in our interest, but the media never bother reporting about it. You vaguely hear about one of our soldiers being killed on a foreign land when the West has taken sides.

LakieLady · 25/10/2023 09:30

Lolapusht · 25/10/2023 00:05

Gaza has a population density similar to London, has a lower population density than New York and is by no means the most densely populated place on Earth. Comparing it to Jura is a bit disingenuous. Why not choose a piece of land the same size in somewhere like Manila?

They’re also not entirely without electricity (lots of solar panels), food and water (Israel supplies around 10%). Hamas could have provided solutions to these problems and actually provided for and safeguarded their people instead of committing terrorist atrocities while sacrificing those same people.

Britannica online gives Gaza a population of 2,229,000 in an area of 365 sq kms.

I make that 6,107 people per sq km*.

According to Statista population density figures, that would make Gaza the 5th most densely populated country in the world, if it was actually a country rather than an enclave (top 5 are Monaco, Macao, Singapore and Hong Kong).

Density by country

Most densely populated countries worldwide 2021 | Statista

City-states and regions such as Monaco and Singapore dominate the list of the most densely populated countries worldwide.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/264683/top-fifty-countries-with-the-highest-population-density/

Saltandvinegarsquares30 · 25/10/2023 09:40

AllowMePleaseAnna · 25/10/2023 09:23

I know I will sound totally stupid and naive now but you take Hamas and all their supporters on one side and Israeli army on the other, go find some desert or any uninhabited place and just go and kill each other if that’s what you want. Ok. Kill each other, cut each other into pieces, I don’t really care, resolve this between yourself. Leave the women and the pure and innocent souls of children alone! Don’t bomb the fucking hospitals, go bomb each other in the middle of nowhere!
I know this sounds stupid but my emotions are high! I follow a reporter,journalist on IG Motaz Azaiza in Gaza right now and the pictures and videos are nothing but hell on Earth. It’s beyond horrific and barbaric .

Edited

I've seen Motaz Azaiza IG this was what upset me so much last night. I can't get the imagine of that boy out of my head.
This doesn't mean I'm not also thinking about the little girl that was hiding under a table who was shot by Hamas. The hate and suffering is just awful.

LakieLady · 25/10/2023 09:42

Tonkerbea · 25/10/2023 08:53

Anyone who thinks YABU, that excuses the murders of babies and children in the hunt for Hamas, needs to worry about their moral compass.

And I feel deep sorrow for the victims of 7/10, which horrifically included children too, but the punishment metered out in response, to innocent civilians, is wrong on every level. There is no excuse for the war crimes taking place right now.

Totally agree.

The actions of Hamas are utterly despicable, but the killing of ordinary civilians in Gaza on the scale that the Israeli government is doing is a totally disproportionate response.

MarySmit · 25/10/2023 09:44

EasternStandard · 25/10/2023 09:21

@MarySmit just due to the way the quote reads I want to say I entirely agree with you and found the post I was replying to the same as you

Absolutely, sorry I didn't mean for the quote to come out as it did, I meant to quote the horrific post.

Thank you for showing compassion.

Coughingdodger · 25/10/2023 09:50

MarySmit · 25/10/2023 09:18

This is an absolutely horrific, and downright anti-Semitic comment. Babies were murdered and beheaded. Children and their families tortured. People were burnt to death. A pregnant women had her baby cut out of her stomach and stabbed. This was an absolutely horrific attack on civilians in their homes. Many of whom were peace activitists (the peace festival was attacked, as we're kibbutzim, which are left wing)

My comment about the woman hitting the man was clumsy and I immediately withdrew it.

It was not “horrific” however. That adjective is more appropriate for what’s going on right this minute in Gaza.

EasternStandard · 25/10/2023 09:59

Coughingdodger · 25/10/2023 09:50

My comment about the woman hitting the man was clumsy and I immediately withdrew it.

It was not “horrific” however. That adjective is more appropriate for what’s going on right this minute in Gaza.

You don’t find what was just outlined in that post and other extreme acts of degradation and violence to be horrific?

Why not?

Luckydip1 · 25/10/2023 10:04

5,000 Palestinians killed and counting and no this is not an anti semetic comment.

EsmaCannonball · 25/10/2023 10:08

Hamas has spent millions, possibly billions, on building an underground tunnel network from which they can wage a war. They have planned this for years. They have logistical and operational rooms down there. They have medical facilities down there. They have food and fuel down there.

They didn't build a tunnel system for civilians. They didn't build an underground network of bomb shelters, hospital facilities and soup kitchens for civilians. They've stationed their above-ground operations where they place maximum risk to civilians and where they will cause maximum outrage if struck. It says it all.

Hamas started this and they could finish it by handing over the hostages and surrendering. Do you really want the new world order to belong to the men who built themselves a vast, state-of-the-art bomb shelter but placed children on top of rocket-launchers?

bathrobeandpie · 25/10/2023 10:08

It was not “horrific” however. That adjective is more appropriate for what’s going on right this minute in Gaza.

wow

It's beyond anything that anyone could have looked at the event of the 07th and explained it, justified it, excused it, or worst cheered it, but there you go, people did. That's what I meant when I said the hatred against Israel is a thing.

If that doesn't prove that there is no possible easy resolution and rockets being launched at another country was nothing but a declaration of war.

It's a tragedy, and it will only escalate. If someone is up for a Nobel Peace Prize and wants to solve that, they have all my support, who wants a war.

MorrisZapp · 25/10/2023 10:10

Tonkerbea · 25/10/2023 08:53

Anyone who thinks YABU, that excuses the murders of babies and children in the hunt for Hamas, needs to worry about their moral compass.

And I feel deep sorrow for the victims of 7/10, which horrifically included children too, but the punishment metered out in response, to innocent civilians, is wrong on every level. There is no excuse for the war crimes taking place right now.

Anyone who doesn't broadly agree with this has lost all sense of humanity and perspective.

Littlebluetruck · 25/10/2023 10:11

Coughingdodger · 25/10/2023 09:50

My comment about the woman hitting the man was clumsy and I immediately withdrew it.

It was not “horrific” however. That adjective is more appropriate for what’s going on right this minute in Gaza.

It was not “horrific” however.

You don’t think an unborn baby being cut out from it’s mother’s womb, women being raped until their pelvis’ split, parents murdered in front of their children, children murdered in front of their siblings, people set on fire, beheaded, limbs hacked off, eyes gouged out, breasts cut off is horrific?

Littlebluetruck · 25/10/2023 10:14

Anyone who thinks YABU, that excuses the murders of babies and children in the hunt for Hamas, needs to worry about their moral compass.

And I feel deep sorrow for the victims of 7/10, which horrifically included children too, but the punishment metered out in response, to innocent civilians, is wrong on every level. There is no excuse for the war crimes taking place right now.

I agree with this.

However, there is far too much minimising of what happened to the civilians of Israel on 7 October. Anyone doing that also needs to worry about their moral compass.

Maireas · 25/10/2023 10:15

Luckydip1 · 25/10/2023 10:04

5,000 Palestinians killed and counting and no this is not an anti semetic comment.

No, you're right. That's not antisemitic.
Chanting "from the river to the sea" and calling for Jews to be wiped out from the area certainly is.

MarySmit · 25/10/2023 10:23

Coughingdodger · 25/10/2023 09:50

My comment about the woman hitting the man was clumsy and I immediately withdrew it.

It was not “horrific” however. That adjective is more appropriate for what’s going on right this minute in Gaza.

Really, so minimising the torture, rape and murder of civilians, including children, is not horrific?!

Do you only not care when it is Jews that are murdered?

TheFirie · 25/10/2023 10:24

Hamas is a terrorist group doing horrible things.
Palestinians are not Hamas.

Would you have justified bombarding NI every time the IRA planted a bomb?

Coughingdodger · 25/10/2023 10:24

EasternStandard · 25/10/2023 09:59

You don’t find what was just outlined in that post and other extreme acts of degradation and violence to be horrific?

Why not?

I never said I didn’t.

I find all murders of innocent children to be horrific. Including the horrific and disgusting behaviour going on in Gaza right now as we speak.

JSMill · 25/10/2023 10:26

Queen Rania was interviewed on CNN and she pointed to the difference in language used about the deaths of Israeli and Palestinian children. Israeli children are slaughtered while Palestinian children are killed. I think someone upthread quoted Giles Coren who said something like if we are arguing over which way to kill a child is worse, all is lost. I want to cry but I'm too bloody angry.

Coughingdodger · 25/10/2023 10:26

bathrobeandpie · 25/10/2023 10:08

It was not “horrific” however. That adjective is more appropriate for what’s going on right this minute in Gaza.

wow

It's beyond anything that anyone could have looked at the event of the 07th and explained it, justified it, excused it, or worst cheered it, but there you go, people did. That's what I meant when I said the hatred against Israel is a thing.

If that doesn't prove that there is no possible easy resolution and rockets being launched at another country was nothing but a declaration of war.

It's a tragedy, and it will only escalate. If someone is up for a Nobel Peace Prize and wants to solve that, they have all my support, who wants a war.

I meant that my comment about the woman hitting the man was not horrific.

As well you know.

MarySmit · 25/10/2023 10:26

Coughingdodger · 25/10/2023 10:24

I never said I didn’t.

I find all murders of innocent children to be horrific. Including the horrific and disgusting behaviour going on in Gaza right now as we speak.

You literally said it was not horrific. You are an anti-Semite. You might as well own up to being a racist bigot, at this point. I see you.

Weonlyhavealoanofit · 25/10/2023 10:27

Why am I feeling very pessimistic and genuinely fearful for the next generation?

I hate the divisiveness of this conflict, it is a human rights issue and it started years before the dreadful murders of the 6/7 October. Before that weekend, one population has been dispossessed of its lands, and moved either into miserably overcrowded ‘refugee camps’ or marooned into a ghetto [I don't believe that any other word is suitable] and subject to a 16 year blockade which has reduced a stateless population to utter misery, and without hope, and without any real support in the wider world. Who was posting about these things before the 6th October? The silence was deafening. International Law has been ignored at every turn and the world’s only super power gives unilaterally allegiance and arms to Israel. If one takes the words Israeli and Palestinian out of the equation and substitute them for Nation A and Nation B people are horrified at the sufferings of Nation B notwithstanding the history of racism perpetrated against Nation A. The USA even blocked a proposal that their be a ‘cessation of fighting’ at the UN. Where is our humanity?

The West through the British Mandate and through the machinations of the UN helped create Israel as a way of dealing with its guilt over centuries of Western anti semitism and the refugees created by Nazism, I think the dream of a nation where Jews could live free from racism and as a beacon to other nations has failed. How many of us as young people wanted to visit Israel and work in a kibbutz, I know I did, it was a very idealistic society but over time the idealism seems to have been replaced with a very violent and racist underbelly, and its racism is directed at Arabs, be they Christian or Muslim. Now it seems to be about a land grab where only people claiming Jewish ancestry have any rights. Yes it will tolerate Western holidaymakers especially of the evangelical Christian persuasion, but it will not tolerate any Arabs living on the land. Netanyahu and his present cabinet contain some truly appalling people, who are trying to destroy Israeli democracy. A political settlement is the only way peace will be established. It requires all the protagonists to negotiate. It requires compromise and a respect for international law. It requires political will, it will require the USA to demand certain things of Israel and I cant see that happening anytime soon.

We are heading to an abyss over the Middle East and the so called ‘Muslim world’. We have the Saudis and their genocidal war in Yemen, which should be a cause of immense public outrage, but as usual we are not bothered about this genocide. Paraphrasing Trump after the murder of Jamal Khasoggi, ‘we do too much business with these guys to do anything’. We have the Saudis and their hands on the distribution and price of oil. We have the Saudis and their policy of creating and funding extremism elsewhere in the world. Accepting Saudi money seems to lead to lower standards in public life. When violent oppressive regimes control the purse strings, people seem to lose sight of right and wrong, they compromise their beliefs they start to tolerate what should not be tolerated.

The states surrounding Israel: Egypt, Lebanon and Jordan cannot cope with any more refugees. They are poor nations and fractured societies where national unity is very fragile. We have the multiple disasters of the Bush/Blair wars in Iraq and Libya which have reduced these states to poverty and rampant sectarianism, we have the civil war raging in Syria and we have been trying for decades to isolate and destroy Iran. A nation were the West’s meddling in the 50s staged a coup and brought down a moderate and democratically elected government headed by Mosaddegh for the sole purpose of protecting British petroleum and US oil companies. His government was replaced by the murderous regime of the Shah which in turn helped create the extremism of the Ayatollah Khomeini.

We have a presidential election in the States being fought by lets face it 2 elderly man who are engaged in the fight for the ‘American soul’….where senators no longer represent the people because they have been bought and paid for by the sectional interests beloved of oligarchs and are, with 1 or 2 exceptions representatives of the fabulously rich, a large part of which is made up of the arms industry, pharmaceutical industry, banking, media and the technology industry.

Ukraine and Russia seem to be set for a long slow painful war that may last years, and China is always the sleeping giant, the West having embraced the philosophy of ‘globalisation’. A policy which made a new class of capitalist , ‘the oligarch’ , people who almost overnight are richer than nation states and wield immense and unfettered power. Globalisation has led to the deindustrialisation of the West and is now leading to a revival of right wing parties, who are opposed to non white immigration and very assertive about patriotism. India appears to be set on a course of extreme Hindu nationalism and is virulently anti Muslim, and Brazil home to the Amazon has a significant population still supportive of Bolsonaro and his environmental thuggery. AND looming over the entire planet is the disaster known as climate change, which will radically alter WHERE, HOW and IF the human race can live.

bathrobeandpie · 25/10/2023 10:27

TheFirie · 25/10/2023 10:24

Hamas is a terrorist group doing horrible things.
Palestinians are not Hamas.

Would you have justified bombarding NI every time the IRA planted a bomb?

I don't justify it, but I understand the reasoning behind.
I suppose I vaguely understand why Hamas started the war, they are against any negotiations and peaceful resolution.

If another country started to launch rockets at London, what would you expect would happen.

What is missing on everything I am reading are reasonable suggestions on how to stop the carnage, I don't think it's as simple as saying "Israel must stop bombing".

Coughingdodger · 25/10/2023 10:28

MarySmit · 25/10/2023 10:26

You literally said it was not horrific. You are an anti-Semite. You might as well own up to being a racist bigot, at this point. I see you.

Your posts are ridiculous.

Nowhere did I say that October 7 was not horrific. I said that my post about a woman hitting a man was not “horrific”.

All of the child murders are horrific. But Israel is continuing to murder and at a much higher and ongoing rate.

bathrobeandpie · 25/10/2023 10:29

Coughingdodger · 25/10/2023 10:26

I meant that my comment about the woman hitting the man was not horrific.

As well you know.

I know no such thing.

I commented on what I read. Glad if it wasn't clear, but i have read enough support over the massacres of the 07th to know they exist.

TheFirie · 25/10/2023 10:29

Who stopped the negotiations? Who increased the colonies? Who has installed apartheid? Are you sure it is Hamas making peace impossible. It takes two to tango

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