If you are pro Israel when is enough killing enough?

[TakeMe2Insanity]

Plenty of people have repeated “1400 Israeli’s were killed on 7/10”, but when is actually enough? The count is above 5000 in Gaza alone. Seriously when is enough enough?

They avoid answering that question by saying “Hamas are to blame for all of the Palestinian deaths” thereby continuing to support the IDF killing as many as they want without accountability

That's a really goady question like how many Palestinians have to die before you can say that Hamas has been decimated.
There's no limit to the number who'd have to die before Israel can be guaranteed its safety as a nation or you can be sure that Hamas is destroyed.

That’s my point there seems to be no end.

Daniel Hagri - has said the purpose is destruction not accuracy.

Benjamin Netanyahu - we’ll turn Gaza into an island of ruins (8/10)

I could go on with quotes but todays comment from the Whitehouse about ceasefire not being on the agenda just feels beyond humanity.

It’s not goady it’s a genuinely that question.

I am concerned about the comments about ceasefire too.Biden should be using his influence to calm things down rather than cause more loss of life. It's the only way to save both hostages and Palestinians.
I've been thinking about the Good Friday agreement recently and how that's panned out despite the slim odds.

Really? You can make that statement - that there is no limit to the number of people destroyed for Israel - and yet find the question goady? I can see why it has to be asked if that's the response. Why on earth would the world agree with you when you would clearly sacrifice every child of every other nation to the cause? What a moral blindspot or dangerous sense of entitlement, I can't tell which. Of course Israel deserves to be safe but other ways must be found and Israel must act with morality like any other country. None of us deserve to have every one else sacrificed. The world doesn't work like that.

I’m not sure this applies to me because I am very much pro Israeli and Gazan civilians, but enough killing in this region was enough a long time ago, and it is about time that the International community came together to put measures in place to give the Gazan’s hope for a better future, and to address Israel’s very real security concerns.

Someone mentioned on another thread some kind of International occupation of Gaza with focus on rebuilding and rooting out violent organisations. I’ve not seen any other suggestion that comes close to actually tackling the issues without bloodshed.

There needs to be peace. Even if it is enforced. The alternative is more bloodshed.

Something needs to be done now.

It's not really down to Israel to be measured. Hamas leaders should be handed over so Israel doesn't need to continue.

Israel's existence shouldn't be threatened but the reality is that it is. You could kill everyone in Palestine but there will still be people that threaten its existence.
Of course Israel should act with morality but the reality is that if you're an ally on the US then the rules are different. For example there was no repercussions on the UK population over WMD and Iraq. Plus it's politicians rather than normal people with morals who are in power. Netanyahu is trying to improve his popularity rather than focus on more moderate actions like a ceasefire that would save human lives.
I know that Hamas have said that the destruction of Israel is their purpose and that Israel haven't said the same but their actions suggests otherwise.

Effectively what seems to be said is that Israeli lives are worth more than Palestinian lives.

The fact that the power has now gone in the Indonesian hospital in Gaza so all those people in the ICU and those tiny babies have been given a death sentence. I find it horrifying how many people can just accept/swallow this as collateral damage.

Okay so direct your anger at Hamas. This would all end if their leadership were handed over.

Stupid question as we cannot stop the killing but I would like to see a Palestinian party for peace. There have been attempts over the years for 2 states, peace, compromises ... palestine rejected them all.

so when Palestine has a party for compromise and peace, then my support for Israel would be less automatic.

@WeeStyleIcon absolutely agree with that

What a curious post. Who should hand them over? Do you honestly think they’re in Gaza themselves?

And when you say not down to Israel to be measured, what do you mean? That it can do whatever it wants without regard to law or consequence?

Or it would end of Israel took some responsibility for its own agency and choices, and realised cutting power will not make Israel any safer and took the step entirely within its ability to turn the power back on.

Honestly this attitude of Israel can slaughter as many as it wants by its own actions and bear no culpability because “Hamas started it” is just so inhumane. No one but no one is forcing Israel to respond in this way. It is choosing to - and maybe the choice is justified, that is a matter of opinion - but the choice is Israel’s and it is accountable for that choice.

Doesn't answer your question directly, but: here's a genuinely great thread on Twitter/X that lays out some of the strategic interests at play, and hence does give you somewhat of an idea of what needs to happen for it to end. Some good comments, too, that include some additiojs and objections! https://x.com/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/1716532694564127072?t=sYLV4ygh5nQNnsaWtUe6jw&s=35

For the sake of transparency: the author is a) an expert, b) personally pro-Palestinian, c) doing a great enough job of trying to look at the situation objectively that some people in his own "camp" are calling him out for "wanting to appeal to white people". Also, it's really long (but we'll worth a read)!

Having said that, and to answer a horribly cynical question: I am going with "minimum 25k", based on a somewhat arbitrary "algorithm" of "past record and an empirically untested factor for the unprecedented nature of the 7 October attack and various interests at stake".

I hope it's far, far, far fewer! And I fear it could be a lot more!

There can never be enough killing according to these Israeli politicians

My question would be: what is Israel hoping to achieve?

It’s all very well saying that Hamas are embedded within the population, and so they have to attack the population as a whole, but what is Israels endgame going to be?

One day the bombing will stop and unless Israel really are planning genocide (which is very unlikely) people will still be alive and some of those people will be members of Hamas. Ok. Then what?

Wow. This thread contains some of the most messed up hate speech I've ever seen on mumsnet, and that's saying something.

I came across this twitter thread from a Jewish man from France who was raised in a Zionist household and it explains a lot. It's very interesting and worth a read.

I see the same lies and lines coming up from the Zionist side over and over again and this thread explains the mindset because it's genuinely hard for someone who is aware of the reality of the situation in Palestine to understand the comments coming from Zionists. https://twitter.com/RaphMim/status/1392323061513297921?t=eVo_uI7fbIOjIxFtmHaLOw&s=19

@Crabble if, say, France's governing political party sent in a huge number of terrorists who raped, mutilated, murdered, burnt and kidnapped women and children on England's south coast would you still expect the uk to help rhem?

When Palestinian stop attacking Israel

Just read this
BREAKING: Israeli official says fuel will not be allowed into Gaza even if Hamas releases all the hostages

are you really sure this war is all about Hamas and not about killing as many innocents as possible ?

So never because Israel will never stop
attacking Gaza

“help” is doing some heavy lifting there. It’s not right that Israel has power over Gaza’s access to power in that way.

you’ll also be aware that the UK and France are sovereign nations whereas Gaza isn’t. It’s a really poor comparison.

but to answer your question, I definitely would not support our government punishing 2m civilians for the actions of a minority by cutting their supply of power. It doesn’t make Israel safer. It’s just spite.