Be ashamed of yourselves

[Thisworld10]

That’s right be ashamed of yourselves. I come in these threads thinking I’ll read someone saying what’s happening to the people of Palestine is awful but what I end up reading is people saying they brought it on themselves because they elected Hamas.

So, what if they elected Hamas. We elected the Conservative party but they don’t speak for me, they certainly don’t act on behalf of the everyday citizen of this country. Be ashamed of yourselves for not valuing the lives of Palestinians but putting so much value on the lives of Israelis.

be ashamed of yourselves for justifying the ethnic cleansing of over 2 million people because Hamas attacked Israel in early October. Be ashamed of yourselves for standing for genocide in 2023!

be ashamed of yourselves for saying we would never allow the holocaust to happen again yet Palestinians are held in an open air prison. It’s literally been called a concentration camp, with no way in or out and they are being rampaged with bombs, white phosphorus bombs being dropped on them non stop. On Sunday night 400 died because of the bombs, over 2000 children are now dead. Be ashamed of yourselves for justifying their deaths and blaming them for it.

be ashamed of yourselves for condoning the protestors for wanting Palestinians to have a right to live a peaceful existence.

be ashamed for bringing history into justifying the slaughter of so many people. Yes, Palestinians did welcome Israelis into the holy land in the 1940’s, it doesn’t mean they get to die now. Yes, Israel has a right to exist, but that doesn’t mean Palestine doesn’t. Yes, Israel has land grabbed and continues to do so but no one is allowed to say anything. Yes, their is no Hamas in the West Bank but why are the Palestinian still being killed. Why are so many people illegally arrested mainly kids - held for decades in Israel prisons. Are they not hostages? Yea, Israel asked asked the Palestinians to move to the south with 24 hours notice for their ‘safety’ yet they are being killed in the south.

be ashamed if you ask any one who stands to defend the rights of Palestinians if they condemn Hamas. Everyone condemns Hamas. Being pro Palestinian doesn’t mean your pro-Hamas. I also condemn the barbarian acts of genocide committed by Israel. I condemn the open displays of hate for Palestinian people - calling them human animals etc.

Be ashamed if you think it’s so great they are letting a trickle of aid in but no fuel to run hospitals. Electricity ran out last night in the hospital. So many babies reliant in incubators will die as a result. be ashamed if you think it’s okay for world leaders to not call for a ceasefire and instead show 100% support to what Israel
is doing.

no one has the right to hold one life more dearer than another.

you should be ashamed of yourselves for valuing some over others.

@steppemum

It seems to me that both sides are determined to annihilate the other,

except it's not.

if Hamas laid down their weapons there would be peace.

if Israel laid down there weapons they'd be wiped out.

israel have put forward the 2 state solution a minimum of 5 times, Hamas won't accept it, they want to kill all Jews.

it's in no way 50:50.

the hospital wasn't Israel, it was from inside Gaza.

israel have put forward the 2 state solution a minimum of 5 times

my understanding is that the current Israeli government doesn't support this

Not only do they support the killing of thousands of trapped civilians, they also support the far right, fascist, racist, nationalistic Israeli government who are perpetrating these acts. Strange. If someone verbalised the smallest, most grudging respect for Nigel Farage they'd be ripped apart on here, yet a fascist government can do no wrong apparently.

Hamas wasn't created in a vacuum. They're a response to 80 years of being displaced, killed, raped, imprisoned and treated like second class citizens by the Israeli authorities. Try being forced to live like that for long enough and it would tip the most reasonable of peoples over the edge.

The Israeli government need the humility to take responsibility for their actions. But they won't. They'll carry on killing. Hamas are terrorists, but all I now see are innocent civilians being terrorised whilst the world looks on.

Egypt occupied Gaza 1949-67.
I do wish people would get basic facts right.

if you are refering to my comment about 1947/8, I was refering to the formation of Israel after WW2. Which has always seemed to me to be the strangest thing.

I'm referring to posters who think that Israel has occupied Gaza from 1948 until the present day. It's been said many times.
Also that every border Gaza has is with Israel, although I'm hoping that images of the Rafah border may inform people. Fine if you want to support whatever side or not, it's just that some people keep repeating the same misinformation. Doesn't help.

Oh OP, I don't even know where to begin with this tirade. I get that you're upset about the loss of innocent lives. I am too. But you're not even trying to see the other side. The side where Israel has been under constant threat since the day it was formed.

Just so you know, pro-Israel ≠ anti-Palestinian. Plenty of us support Israel's right to exist and defend itself but don't want Palestinians to suffer. I don't support Netanyahu, I think he's a disgraceful human being. I just don't think he's had much choice though in how to respond to the massacre 2.5 weeks ago. Bombings are being condemned yet the world is calling for Israel not to go in on foot. So what should Israel have done? Just sat back and waited for Hamas to come back for round 2?

I don't think innocent Palestinians deserve what is happening to them.

This is also as much a media war as it is an actual war. No one knows how many Palestinians have actually died - the numbers might be accurate but it's just as possible that they're not. The hospital last week would be quite clear evidence of that. I mean, the numbers are being provided by a terror group and haven't been verified.

I hope all the hostages will be released asap so this all-around tragedy and loss of life can end.

Not only do they support the killing of thousands of trapped civilians, they also support the far right, fascist, racist, nationalistic Israeli government who are perpetrating these acts. Strange. If someone verbalised the smallest, most grudging respect for Nigel Farage they'd be ripped apart on here, yet a fascist government can do no wrong apparently.

Yup apparently this is what Western values are these day. I keep hearing I support Israel because they are rhe only democracy in the middle east, they don't see to care who that democracy have voted in. It's clear to see that the Israeli government is full of racist, fascist, murderous people and no one seems to give a fuck because they were democratically elected

I'm with you OP. I cannot fathom some of the things I've read on here. Racist, uneducated and brainwashed by our corrupt media.

I am staying away from it for now because it's affected me deeply but hopefully when I feel stronger I'll come back.

I'm not ashamed of myself OP

Why should
I be

Hamas have done as much to harm Palestinians as the Israelis

The Ministry of Health in Gaza has just announced a complete collapse of their healthcare system and hospital. They are out of water, supplies and power. All those poor premature babies on incubators, all those kids in ICU, all those families that will die today because of this genocide.

They don’t deserve this. I say it again if you should all be ashamed of yourselves if you think the Palestinian people brought this on themselves.

it’s genocide. It’s ethnic cleansing. It’s not a war - how is bombing Palestinians, withholding, water, food, medical supplies and fuel going to affect Hamas.

Hamas literally just released a hostage who said they fed her, gave her medical care, took care of her and they even had toilet facilities. Clearly withholding all this doesn’t affect Hamas only the everyday citizens who will now die. It’s silly to think Israel with its weaponery can’t find a different way into Gaza to get them. They know they are underground. It doesn’t help killing so many people. They know this, yet they continue to do it.

shame on everyone who sides with Israel’s barbaric torture of innocent people. I can’t stand how some lives are more valuable than others just because of where you are born.

The Ministry of Health in Gaza

So… Hamas?

Sigh… No one thinks the Palestinians brought this upon themselves.

WHO confirms that 2 out of 3 healthcare facilities are no longer functioning

more to follow

AP

^^

Although OP, many on this thread seem to insinuate that the Israelis brought the 7th October upon themselves. Hamas not being formed in a vacuum and such like.

This is what I find scary tbh. I think it's really sinister. Anyone with any sense of decency can see what kind of 'democracy' Israel has, yet they're happy to support it. Global politics is dangerously polarised now and it's no surprise the far right are gaining a foothold in many places. This is going to spell disaster and possibly lead to another world war.

@Thisworld10

Hamas have so far only released hostages who still have family members being kept hostage. Of course they're not going to dare say anything negative about their experiences. And also, even if they did treat her decently, does that make it all ok?

Hamas know what they're doing. They've been manipulating the media and people all over the world for years. They're very good at hostage taking, they've had plenty of practice. Only releasing hostages who still have everything to lose is an incredibly clever strategical move

Except there wouldn't be peace if Hamas laid down their weapons would there? Palestians would still be persecuted by Israelis who are taught in school that they are 'primitive', 'criminal' and 'vile'. Those large swathes of Israeli youth who say that they 'hate Arabs' aren't suddenly going to stop hating them. People like that politician who said 'Gazan children brought this on themselves' aren't suddenly going to disappear nor is the culture that led to this politician feeling that she could openly state this. The violent Israeli settlers aren't suddenly going to stop stealing peoples homes and land. The Israelis aren't suddenly going to stop imprisoning and torturing palestinian children. The checkpoints that the Israelis impose on Palestinains as they move around their own territory aren't suddenly going to disappear. There are huge problems in both territories that aren't suddenly going to disappear if Hamas do.

Quite!

s

Has anyone ever actually felt shame as a result of being told by a random stranger that they should? It's such a foreign idea to me I just can't get my head around it.

Ah, I see, it’s alright about the hostages because they treated them well (4 out of over 200 anyway). Nice chaps those Hamas lads.
Definitely not the type to behead babies, tie groups of children together with barbed wire and set fire to them or tie parents to their children and set fire to them and glorify in the violence.No, not them.

It’s all those bloody fascist Israelis. Vacuums and all that.

the cognitive dissonance on this thread is astounding. If Hamas have access to medical care, food and water then why are they withholding it from the civilians they claim to represent?

OP, you claim that you can’t stand how some lives are more valuable than others and you are literally doing it on this thread.

You see no one here has said that they are pro Hamas or that Hamas aren't awful. Hamas can be awful and the Israeli government can be awful. Those two things can be true. At the end of the day as the Israeli government are an occupying power they have the responsibility of Palestinian lives on them. That is what they chose. Hamas are a terrorist organisation people don't expect great things from Hamas but as we are told continually the Israeli government are the only democratically elected government in the middle east. We are told that they are peace loving people who just want the right to exist. Yet here they are starving 2.2million civilians, denying them power and proper aid. Of course we think they should do better than a terrorist organisation. Every democratically elected government around the world should do better than a terrorist organisation.

@Gruntsandgroans no they have not but they have minimised the events of the 7th of October because ‘Vacuums, resistance, oppression etc.’

I do not support the Israeli government’s actions but I will not stand by and see Hamas’s actions minimised or the Israelis being victim blamed. I am fed up of hearing ‘yes, what happened on the 7th October was awful, BUT..’
There is no but. What is happening to both the Israelis and the Palestinian civilians is reprehensible.

At the end of the day as the Israeli government are an occupying power they have the responsibility of Palestinian lives on them. That is what they chose.
Really, they chose this nightmare that Hamas has inflicted on everyone? and therefore somehow deserve what came to them???

see 12:00 onwards here

Sorry I suppose I picked up on this from you the cognitive dissonance on this thread is astounding. If Hamas have access to medical care, food and water then why are they withholding it from the civilians they claim to represent?

It felt to me like you were putting the witholding of aid etc of Palestinians all on Hamas when it is actually the Israeli government's responsibility. I'm not saying Hamas shouldn't help where they can but I find it very difficult to believe that they have enough fuel, food, water, medical supplies etc for 2.2million hiding in their tunnels somewhere. Israel have happily applied collective punishment to those 2.2million people for 17years, they have facilitated a humanitarian crisis for 17 years. You cannot talk about the suffering of Palestinians without talking about the Israeli government's part in all of this because they have played a pivotal role, they are inextricably linked. Whether you feel it is right or wrong people expect more from a democratically elected government.