Be ashamed of yourselves

[Thisworld10]

That’s right be ashamed of yourselves. I come in these threads thinking I’ll read someone saying what’s happening to the people of Palestine is awful but what I end up reading is people saying they brought it on themselves because they elected Hamas.

So, what if they elected Hamas. We elected the Conservative party but they don’t speak for me, they certainly don’t act on behalf of the everyday citizen of this country. Be ashamed of yourselves for not valuing the lives of Palestinians but putting so much value on the lives of Israelis.

be ashamed of yourselves for justifying the ethnic cleansing of over 2 million people because Hamas attacked Israel in early October. Be ashamed of yourselves for standing for genocide in 2023!

be ashamed of yourselves for saying we would never allow the holocaust to happen again yet Palestinians are held in an open air prison. It’s literally been called a concentration camp, with no way in or out and they are being rampaged with bombs, white phosphorus bombs being dropped on them non stop. On Sunday night 400 died because of the bombs, over 2000 children are now dead. Be ashamed of yourselves for justifying their deaths and blaming them for it.

be ashamed of yourselves for condoning the protestors for wanting Palestinians to have a right to live a peaceful existence.

be ashamed for bringing history into justifying the slaughter of so many people. Yes, Palestinians did welcome Israelis into the holy land in the 1940’s, it doesn’t mean they get to die now. Yes, Israel has a right to exist, but that doesn’t mean Palestine doesn’t. Yes, Israel has land grabbed and continues to do so but no one is allowed to say anything. Yes, their is no Hamas in the West Bank but why are the Palestinian still being killed. Why are so many people illegally arrested mainly kids - held for decades in Israel prisons. Are they not hostages? Yea, Israel asked asked the Palestinians to move to the south with 24 hours notice for their ‘safety’ yet they are being killed in the south.

be ashamed if you ask any one who stands to defend the rights of Palestinians if they condemn Hamas. Everyone condemns Hamas. Being pro Palestinian doesn’t mean your pro-Hamas. I also condemn the barbarian acts of genocide committed by Israel. I condemn the open displays of hate for Palestinian people - calling them human animals etc.

Be ashamed if you think it’s so great they are letting a trickle of aid in but no fuel to run hospitals. Electricity ran out last night in the hospital. So many babies reliant in incubators will die as a result. be ashamed if you think it’s okay for world leaders to not call for a ceasefire and instead show 100% support to what Israel
is doing.

no one has the right to hold one life more dearer than another.

you should be ashamed of yourselves for valuing some over others.

another thread on this.

I know right. Another thread on this. I mean it’s not like it’s a world issue and people have feeling about it.

You don’t get to project your hatred onto me I’m afraid. Look somewhere else for blame.

@RudsyFarmer are you okay? If you stand for genocide then you should be ashamed of yourself. I’m not projecting hate, I’m stating facts alongside saying if u value the live of one set of people over another you should be ashamed of yourself. I’m sure I’ll get called a anti Semite any minute now. That’s to be expected.

You have no right to dictate how others feel or post or react

so I should be ashamed because I don’t support Hamas and the people who voted for them who attacked another country
grow up and stop being entitled people are allowed their own opinions
I think anyone who supports Hamas whose constitution is to kill every Jew on the planet are those who should be ashamed.
the fact is people who vote for Hamas know what they stand for
they know that every few years Hamas will attack Israel
they know that Israel will respond
what do you think Israel should do invite them for a coffee and a bun
i note you don’t seem bothered about the Israel people who were killed

Were you one of the ones celebrating the attack & deaths on Oct 7?

For goodness sake there have been loads of threads saying what your saying or haven't you noticed over the last fortnight? Hardly a unique opinion.

Thanks @Thisworld10 I sadly agree that there are so many trying to justify the unjustifiable. That said, I believe that more and more people are now trying to find out what's truly happening instead of blindly following the propaganda of most of the mainstream media.

Because I'm not emotionally invested I'd say it's 50/50 to blame . Both sides are wrong but think they are right . Same as the conflict in Northern Ireland.

All I see is people. People suffering. There's good and evil on both sides. They're all just human beings who want to live without fear. I wish there was a solution.

And here is yet another conflict.

I don't feel any shame.

I feel sorry for all innocent civilian casualties caught up in violent conflicts throughout history.

It does seem fairly clear now though that the worst attacks on the Palestinians have come from Hamas not Israel - when it looked like Israel had bombed that hospital there was angry condemnation. But now most independent observers are saying they didn't, you have to wonder what else they are being blames for that they are not doing

On Sunday night 400 died because of the bombs, over 2000 children are now dead.

and this all started because a similar number we killed by Hamas in Israel, including a load of kids at a music festival.

I am not pro Israel or pro Palestine, I think the whole thing is a mess and very sad, and I have no idea what the solution is, but nowhere in your whole post do you acknowledge that it was started by Palestine. Or that Palestine continues to bomb Israel as well.
It seems to me that both sides are determined to annihilate the other, and it is ordinary people that are being caught in the middle and dying.

My heart breaks for all involved. You seem to only care about one side.
So no, I will not be ashamed of myself.

TL/DR

Hope you feel better after your rant

Maybe discuss the Israeli-Hamas war with like-minded friends and stop winding yourself up with SM and contributing to the bonfire

Most people can see both sides though.. unlike your hectoring rant.

You’ve no right to shame anybody.

I agree that the situation for the Palestinian people is beyond horrendous right now, and unfortunately you don't get to dictate what other people feel or think just because you don't agree with them. No one is going to suddenly feel ashamed of themselves for having a different point of view than you because you told them to on Mumsnet. If you are genuinely so concerned about what is happening in Gaza, maybe you could donate some money or volunteer some of your time to help a charity that supports the cause? That might be more productive than trying to make other people feel ashamed about it. In the meantime I suggest you look up the meaning of telescopic philanthropy.

Do you not see that you are part of the problem OP? Presumably not. You're full of hate. No one needs to hate anyone, it's not compulsory.

No one needs to follow a particular creed or religion, it is a choice. It is a choice to align to a tribe which then by definition 'others' everyone else. Fear and hatred of the others then ensues.

It is all ridiculous. We are all human beings. We are all the same species.

@Thisworld10 I have read the various threads on MN on this topic.

I've restrained myself several times from angry posting but you have said exactly what I wanted to. The general rhetoric seems to be Pro-Palestine = Pro-hamas. Criticise israel = antisemitic. It's not the case. I'm weary of people spouting the same. This is a conflict so long and divided but is now looking like it it is going to end in absolute genocide with Palestine being wiped off the map.

There are so many resources for people to read and understand - I don't get the "I don't know much about this topic" and in the next breath voice anger at the bloodshed hamas have caused without equally condemning israel for the war crimes they are committing.

I follow TorahJudaism on SM - maybe take a look? It gives a good insight into Jewish - not Zionist - core beliefs and how many feel about what is happening.

@steppemum this started way before October. This started decades ago and now over 5000 Palestinians are dead. If people are not seeing this is wrong and Israel shouldn’t have the unequivocal support of world leaders then I have no words. What I am seeing is one Israeli life holds more value than the life of a Palestinian. And that in my eyes is wrong. 5000 and more dead and when will it stop?

to other posters (coz I’m not good at reposting) I’m not saying I don’t feel for what Israel went through. No where have I said I don’t feel for them, but what I am saying is it is so wrong to not condemn what Israel is doing to the people of Palestine, to give it justification as though it’s okay they deserve it they brought it on themselves.

for so many years they have been unable to leave the Gaza Strip without permission, how is this allowed? They aren’t allowed to build their own water pumps? How is this allowed? So many are unemployed. They aren’t even allowed basic human rights and yet the feeling is well they voted hamas so deal with it. How is that allowed? If someone comes and terrorises me for the actions of my government it wouldn’t be my fault! I didn’t even vote the conservatives - whose to say every Palestinian voted for Hamas?

If you don’t like my thread then don’t read it. But this is my opinion and I think people should question why they are okay with the deaths of Palestinians just because of Hamas. I don’t blame the every day people of Israel for the actions do their government.

@steppemum this started way before October.

I am well aware.
I just find your post completely one sided.

I think the world has a lot to answer for as it created this in the first place by insisting Israel had land which belonged to others back in 1947/8

But in this present situation, I think there is fault on both sides.

And as always it is innocent civilians who die. My heart breaks for them on both sides.

I find the fact that you only think Palestinians are suffering distasteful.
It is in fact the very thing that you are ranting about, that people only consider lives on one side to be valid.

@Thisworld10 crikey, you should be ashamed of your somewhat shaky grasp of history.

Why was Gaza blockaded when the Israelis pulled out? Was it because the Israelis are awful and the Palestinians oppressed or do you think there might be more to it.

Also not sure the Tory govt are a good example- they’re not a terrorist group for a start. Although some may disagree with that (sarcasm).

And no one of sound mind thinks the Palestinians deserve it for electing Hamas. They stopped holding elections in 2007 when it looked like they might lose, I wouldn’t call them an elected government on that basis. Where the fuck was your outrage then? Palestinians are being oppressed by their own government and you appear to give no fucks about that. Where was your outrage when they were getting murdered in Syria?

I do not agree with all Israeli actions past and present and I certainly don’t agree with a terrorist group, but I am deeply upset for the civilians that have been dragged into it, both Israeli and Palestinian because all life is valid

And please stop chucking the word Holocaust around, you clearly don’t know what it means.