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Conflict in the Middle East
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Chocolata82 · 26/10/2023 19:39

I turned on the news at around 4 and saw a man talking at the UN conference about the horrendous footage he had seen from the kibbutz. He described that he couldn't get out of his head the footage of a man who was alive getting decapitated with a garden hose. He then proceeded to say I will now show you and he turned his tablet around to the cameras and showed everyone. The BBC then turned over to a different news story. Did anyone else see that? When I search there's no news stories relating to it.

Chocolata82 · 26/10/2023 19:40

It was totally shocking 😪

Yorkshirelass04 · 26/10/2023 19:44

Unfortunately I think it's going to get a whole lot worse and won't stop until Hamas and the Palestinians are basically wiped out.

If the posters on this board can't agree on who is wrong and right, and what sort of acts are justified under what circumstances, what hope is there for the Middle East?

CaveMum · 26/10/2023 19:59

@Chocolata82 that footage was shown at the IDF briefing a few days ago where they showed the recovered CCTV and bodycam footage. There are horrifying stories being told by those that saw it - hardened war correspondents crying and retching.

I can’t bring myself to post any of the details but several journalists who were present have posted Twitter threads describing what they saw, and the BBC posted a toned piece about it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67198270

Still from video showing Hamas militants point gun at car on road

Israel shows Hamas bodycam attack footage to journalists

The Israeli military screened 43 minutes of raw footage from bodycams, dashcams and CCTV.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67198270

StarbucksSmarterSister · 26/10/2023 20:01

Chocolata82 · 26/10/2023 19:39

I turned on the news at around 4 and saw a man talking at the UN conference about the horrendous footage he had seen from the kibbutz. He described that he couldn't get out of his head the footage of a man who was alive getting decapitated with a garden hose. He then proceeded to say I will now show you and he turned his tablet around to the cameras and showed everyone. The BBC then turned over to a different news story. Did anyone else see that? When I search there's no news stories relating to it.

I've seen that footage on Twitter. As soon as I realised what he was trying to do I scrolled on quickly but I didn't realise he was still alive. Apparently it was one of the Thai workers on the Kibbutz. I've seen journalists on Twitter talking about it

Chocolata82 · 26/10/2023 20:09

StarbucksSmarterSister · 26/10/2023 20:01

I've seen that footage on Twitter. As soon as I realised what he was trying to do I scrolled on quickly but I didn't realise he was still alive. Apparently it was one of the Thai workers on the Kibbutz. I've seen journalists on Twitter talking about it

Show quote history

Yes, it was a Thai worker, so sad. Also yesterday I saw footage of a family on the kibbutz, the fear on their faces, Hamas live streamed the mothers phone so all her friends could see, the dad had been shot in the leg. Their 17 year old son was led away and from the description he was forced to talk to his neighbours to lure them out then when they came out they were shot infront of him. Unimaginable horror.
I really want to find out about that family as some people said the son, mum and dad were murdered and some said they were kidnapped.

StarbucksSmarterSister · 26/10/2023 20:16

Chocolata82

Yes, I have heard that the parents and son were murdered and the two girls kidnapped.

Chocolata82 · 26/10/2023 20:18

StarbucksSmarterSister · 26/10/2023 20:16

Chocolata82

Yes, I have heard that the parents and son were murdered and the two girls kidnapped.

Oh, that beautiful family, they looked so afraid and the mum was holding on so tight to her little girl.

SharonEllis · 26/10/2023 22:50

ProvincialLady1 · 26/10/2023 10:58

The worst part is over? They have released the hostages, Hamas is gone? They no longer want to destroy Israel and kill the Jews? They're not sending hundreds of rockets a day into Israel? Great news.

Show quote history

My god, I had missed this. The worst is over? The survivors of the attack have to live with seeing the depraved torture & butchery for ever. Some are wounded. Most hostages not released. Hamas will keep killing unless they are stopped. This is one of the nastiest, stupidest things I've read on all these threads.

SharonEllis · 26/10/2023 22:51

@provinciallady so sorry I was referring to the idiot you were quoting. What you say is right.

Noicant · 27/10/2023 10:09

What I find strange is not drawing immediate parallels to terror attacks such as the bataclan. They weren’t targeting the military or the government. It was very much directed at civilians, anyone who casts doubt on that is an idiot. I think the torture is what takes it up a notch as well. 2 scenarios

  1. an attack on IDF military posts or government buildings or
  2. an attack on people at a rave, families (children, how does anyone torture a child) anyone they crossed which involved torture

clearly there is a difference in a child dying accidentally in 1) vs being tortured and murdered in 2). I would have thought it was obvious there is a vast moral difference there.

I mean it’s pretty clear this was a terrorist attack. If it happened on London, Paris, New York etc it would be viewed as a terrorist attack.

I remember the attack on the school in Pakistan which mainly educated children of military and police. 134 kids murdered. The purpose is to terrorise, their is no military or strategic advantage in torturing people is there.

Stomacharmeleon · 27/10/2023 11:17

@Noicant I also find it odd that Hamas is not the target of the kickback on both sides. I wanted to write ire or something else then but it seems inadequate. Wrath?

Hamas that own million of dollars of land. That have a budget of millions of dollars for weaponry. That sit in mansions in Qatar and have close links with other countries surrounding Israel calling for death to all Jews. Iran? That is inconceivable to westerners that after being the target of such a premeditated act of horror that is reminiscent of isis (they liked burning people alive and videoing it) they expect, they demand, that Israel does nothing.

Hamas that site their weaponry amongst their own civilians. That put rocket launchers on schools, that inflate death rates of their own people..... the UN stands by all data released by Hamas although for example the hospital strike most western countries concede was a Islamic Jihad rocket and Italy said yesterday they think 70 deaths was more accurate not 500 plus.

I am so angry that seemingly educated people cannot look beyond the propaganda they are being fed. I implore people to think about how they would feel. No it's not in a vacuum but it's unprecedented and Israel has tried numerous times (16?) to broker peace. It's still firing rockets now whilst demanding Israel stop... whilst they release for the tenth time they have a days fuel left in their hospitals:

I think for a lot it's just carte Blanche to unleash hate to the Jewish people wherever they are, antisemitism is rife. On the streets, our corridors of learning. Targeted hate.And that to me indicates even more why having Israel is necessary and why we need to back them.

EasternStandard · 27/10/2023 11:21

There was a bad thread last night, which I presume had been deleted

The one thing social media does is record the rise in antisemitism in real time.

SharonEllis · 27/10/2023 15:48

Stomacharmeleon · 27/10/2023 11:17

@Noicant I also find it odd that Hamas is not the target of the kickback on both sides. I wanted to write ire or something else then but it seems inadequate. Wrath?

Hamas that own million of dollars of land. That have a budget of millions of dollars for weaponry. That sit in mansions in Qatar and have close links with other countries surrounding Israel calling for death to all Jews. Iran? That is inconceivable to westerners that after being the target of such a premeditated act of horror that is reminiscent of isis (they liked burning people alive and videoing it) they expect, they demand, that Israel does nothing.

Hamas that site their weaponry amongst their own civilians. That put rocket launchers on schools, that inflate death rates of their own people..... the UN stands by all data released by Hamas although for example the hospital strike most western countries concede was a Islamic Jihad rocket and Italy said yesterday they think 70 deaths was more accurate not 500 plus.

I am so angry that seemingly educated people cannot look beyond the propaganda they are being fed. I implore people to think about how they would feel. No it's not in a vacuum but it's unprecedented and Israel has tried numerous times (16?) to broker peace. It's still firing rockets now whilst demanding Israel stop... whilst they release for the tenth time they have a days fuel left in their hospitals:

I think for a lot it's just carte Blanche to unleash hate to the Jewish people wherever they are, antisemitism is rife. On the streets, our corridors of learning. Targeted hate.And that to me indicates even more why having Israel is necessary and why we need to back them.

All of this. And Hamas that have diverted all those dollars into building tunnels but does not use them to shelter their civilians - because it suits them to have them killed.

Alcemeg · 27/10/2023 16:36

Phew, what a relief to read your articulate voices. It's like a little oasis in a desert of indifference to Israel's plight. I'm just appalled by the posts on MN, not just a trickle of snide comments but a raging torrent 😕

thedevilsgift · 27/10/2023 16:42

EsmaCannonball · 24/10/2023 17:04

On the day of the attack I saw a brief two second clip of the video where the man is being decapitated by the garden hoe. The brief clip did not show the man but the Hamas attacker who was enjoying himself. A journalist who has now seen the video said that the victim looked South East Asian and was probably a farm worker. I cannot comprehend how someone can do something so specifically awful to another person and be proud of it; actually post the footage on line because they want everyone to know what they have done and how badly the poor man suffered.

The other video that is burned into my memory is of the two parents and their two children being held at gunpoint, the children in utter despair over their older sister's death. It now transpires that she had been shot in the head and was lying dead just off camera. I can't imagine what sort of man would put children through such a thing and then broadcast their trauma on Facebook Live, using their own mother's phone.

It's the lack of shame which is so disturbing. It's one thing to live somewhere where torturing people to death will bring you opprobrium, arrest, trial and punishment; and another where your own government (and your own parents, seemingly) will laud you and reward you for doing the same.

But you know, Hamas were actually right. They filmed themselves committing medieval atrocities and it didn't turn people off them. It's actually gained them support around the world, boosted the morale of their fans. People in western countries are revelling in this. I guess Hamas now know that if they do execute hostages it's not necessarily going to go down that badly in some quarters.

Israel, on the other hand, is always expected to bring boxing gloves to a knife fight. Hamas, ISIS, the Wagner Group, they can do what they like, while the governments of totalitarian regimes hold western governments to the standards they themselves never intend to keep. Israel knows that every military move it makes is going to be scrutinised to the nth degree. Hamas has just proved it doesn't have that problem.

Brilliant post.

thedevilsgift · 27/10/2023 16:56

Stomacharmeleon · 27/10/2023 11:17

@Noicant I also find it odd that Hamas is not the target of the kickback on both sides. I wanted to write ire or something else then but it seems inadequate. Wrath?

Hamas that own million of dollars of land. That have a budget of millions of dollars for weaponry. That sit in mansions in Qatar and have close links with other countries surrounding Israel calling for death to all Jews. Iran? That is inconceivable to westerners that after being the target of such a premeditated act of horror that is reminiscent of isis (they liked burning people alive and videoing it) they expect, they demand, that Israel does nothing.

Hamas that site their weaponry amongst their own civilians. That put rocket launchers on schools, that inflate death rates of their own people..... the UN stands by all data released by Hamas although for example the hospital strike most western countries concede was a Islamic Jihad rocket and Italy said yesterday they think 70 deaths was more accurate not 500 plus.

I am so angry that seemingly educated people cannot look beyond the propaganda they are being fed. I implore people to think about how they would feel. No it's not in a vacuum but it's unprecedented and Israel has tried numerous times (16?) to broker peace. It's still firing rockets now whilst demanding Israel stop... whilst they release for the tenth time they have a days fuel left in their hospitals:

I think for a lot it's just carte Blanche to unleash hate to the Jewish people wherever they are, antisemitism is rife. On the streets, our corridors of learning. Targeted hate.And that to me indicates even more why having Israel is necessary and why we need to back them.

This stuns me too. Hamas have very clearly for a very long time had very little concern for the people of Palestine. They are not a political movement, they are a religious movement, like ISIS, whose goal is to establish an Islamist Caliphate. That is why they will never agree a two state solution, no matter how much that is in the interests of the Palestinian people.

They are harder to combat than ISIS as they have embedded themselves in a civilian population. Which means targeting Hamas brings death and destruction to civilians.

Hamas knew the 7th October would bring terrible death and pain to the people of Gaza, but presumably saw that as a price worth paying to kick off a major conflict between the Arab countries of the middle east and Israel. How are people not hating Hamas for this, but many even actively celebrating them?

How such obvious, cynical disregard of civilian life has not caused people to finally see what Hamas are, and condemn them outright, instead of, at best, coming out with 'context;'' 'understanding' bollocks, and at worst. and disturbingly commonly, freedom fighters bollocks, is beyond me.

Mind you, when people who identify as queer, gay, lesbian, trans, pronoun people and some feminists are also happily supporting a culture that would enthusiastically murder and oppress them and have no regard for their human rights at all, I suppose we cannot expect better critical thinking.

SomeCatFromJapan · 27/10/2023 17:01

It's also Team Putin really, which is additionally baffling.

Alcemeg · 27/10/2023 17:05

SomeCatFromJapan · 27/10/2023 17:01

It's also Team Putin really, which is additionally baffling.

Yes, weird! Because anti-West?

EasternStandard · 27/10/2023 17:13

Alcemeg · 27/10/2023 17:05

Yes, weird! Because anti-West?

Show quote history

The reality of actually being anti-West would shock people.

It’s just from the safety and luxury of social media

DyslexicPoster · 27/10/2023 17:22

saffronsoup · 24/10/2023 14:17

I don't watch the footage of the death and torment and suffering on either side. I am aware that is has happened and it is awful but I don't need or want those pictures of words or images in my head. It doesn't change the brutality of anyonne's death or the horror they experienced but for me, I don't need to watch someone dying - by gun or sword or bomb or rubble or fire to realize how awful war is and how terrible some have acted and how much pain and suffering victims and their families have experienced.

Yes me either. I think it's the ultimate humiliation for that dead person. To forever have your death and or dead body floating about on the Internet until humans no longer walk this earth. How would anyone feel about have their child's death recorded like this? I don't need to see it that humans are utterly sick fucks thank you. I sometimes wish global warming would hurry up and wipe humanity out in it entirety.

EsmaCannonball · 27/10/2023 21:24

Oh, I've also seen the claims that Free Palestine is a climate justice issue. Wouldn't you love Just Stop Oil to take their slogan on a tour of the Middle East?

Trulywonderful · 29/10/2023 01:29

😂

ketchup07070 · 29/10/2023 11:10

@EsmaCannonball I suspect the bombs are causing a large amount of environmental damage, contributing to climate change and trauma to wildlife, quite apart from human suffering. I'd be interested to see any analysis of it.

Trulywonderful · 29/10/2023 12:14

ketchup07070 · 29/10/2023 11:10

@EsmaCannonball I suspect the bombs are causing a large amount of environmental damage, contributing to climate change and trauma to wildlife, quite apart from human suffering. I'd be interested to see any analysis of it.

Sure there will be at some point

Probably not priority at the moment mind

Though I still want to know what is happening to the horses in the Gaza equestrian centre.