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Conflict in the Middle East
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Wonkasworld · 24/10/2023 10:20

Parkingt111 · 24/10/2023 10:18

I did see on the news the name of these two hostages on Friday. That Hamas said they wanted to release them on humanitarian grounds and they said Israel had refused. And only accepted the two American hostages.
And then I saw there were some protests in Tel Aviv. Now before you all jump on me and say how can you take Hamas's word over Netanyahus, I'd like to clarify that I'm just relating what I read.
As many of us on here have agreed that in war their are alot of politics. As a rhetorical question IF Israel did reject the release what reason could there be?
Would there be more pressure on them for a ceasefire? Is that something they wouldn't want at this stage

Bit late now for Hamas to be thinking about humanitarianism.

Maireas · 24/10/2023 10:21

Yes, that was a confusing story.
I know that there have been demonstrations against Netanyahu and the most popular Israeli paper has claimed most people want a ceasefire (according to Haaretz).

Parkingt111 · 24/10/2023 10:21

Wonkasworld · 24/10/2023 10:16

I dread to think what the hostages have witnessed.

Show quote history

Are there any interviews with the released American hostages?

Wonkasworld · 24/10/2023 10:23

Parkingt111 · 24/10/2023 10:21

Are there any interviews with the released American hostages?

Show quote history

I haven't looked for any. I saw one with the man whose wife and daughter had been released. The look of relief on his face said it all.

beachcitygirl · 24/10/2023 10:24

Parkingt111 · 24/10/2023 10:18

I did see on the news the name of these two hostages on Friday. That Hamas said they wanted to release them on humanitarian grounds and they said Israel had refused. And only accepted the two American hostages.
And then I saw there were some protests in Tel Aviv. Now before you all jump on me and say how can you take Hamas's word over Netanyahus, I'd like to clarify that I'm just relating what I read.
As many of us on here have agreed that in war their are alot of politics. As a rhetorical question IF Israel did reject the release what reason could there be?
Would there be more pressure on them for a ceasefire? Is that something they wouldn't want at this stage

Good question & well phrased- there is obviously propaganda on both sides but i also seen this on a reputable news site.

Certainly worthy of discussion

Efacsen · 24/10/2023 10:27

Parkingt111 · 24/10/2023 10:18

I did see on the news the name of these two hostages on Friday. That Hamas said they wanted to release them on humanitarian grounds and they said Israel had refused. And only accepted the two American hostages.
And then I saw there were some protests in Tel Aviv. Now before you all jump on me and say how can you take Hamas's word over Netanyahus, I'd like to clarify that I'm just relating what I read.
As many of us on here have agreed that in war their are alot of politics. As a rhetorical question IF Israel did reject the release what reason could there be?
Would there be more pressure on them for a ceasefire? Is that something they wouldn't want at this stage

Yes ongoing very public sit-in of hostage families in Tel Aviv

Large proportion of hostages are dual passport holders with a disproportionate number of US individuals

Many governments putting pressure on Israel to negotiate and delay the land invasion most notably Biden

Hamas yesterday offered to free 50 'foreigners' which was apparently declined

All very complicated like all of this

Stomacharmeleon · 24/10/2023 10:29

@beachcitygirl I was just coming on to say thank you for apologising after baying for my blood last night but I see your rhetoric of inflammatory posts directed at certain posters hasn't changed?

I have loved ones in the West Bank. I have family in the Middle East. I respect your views although I do not agree with them and I ask that you respect mine.

I stand with the Israeli people (me and my dark soul :/)

Shalom.

Parkingt111 · 24/10/2023 10:29

From the BBC today on the issue

And there’s an additional calculation here - the families of hostages are getting more vociferous.
They have a permanent protest in Tel Aviv outside the army headquarters. I don’t think people will be that keen on the idea of a great big military operation when their families are still captured and there’s a chance of a negotiation.
So it’s getting more complicated for the Israelis. They may have thought at the beginning that this was going to be very simple - the language they have been using is "sort Hamas out once and for all".

bluegentian · 24/10/2023 10:30

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25milesfromhome · 24/10/2023 10:31

Parkingt111 · 24/10/2023 10:07

The hostage situation has really put Israel into a predicament. I'm assuming that the families of the hostages are calling for a ceasefire as their is a greater possibility of them being killed in the bombardment

@Parkingt111 the detached speculative tone in which you discuss the Israeli hostages and possibility of them also being killed in Israeli airstrikes is quite dehumanising compared to the emotive rhetoric you employ for discussing the Palestinians. The “hostage situation” includes babies, children, women and the elderly whom, based on the evidence of Hamas’s attack on the 7th, are still probably being raped and tortured in captivity. Many of them will have seen their families murdered in front of them on the 7th. Any hostages released will not be able to speak the truth of what has happened to them for fear of reprisals for the remaining hostages and Hamas are absolute masters of optics and manipulation. Please show some compassion.

Edited to remove an accidental extra word.

beachcitygirl · 24/10/2023 10:33

I have a close friend min Palestine working with MAP
I stand with Palestine

I see some uncaring attitudes and dehumanising language & that us ongoing.

I did misread your pos and apologised as is appropriate.

I still don't like dehumanising language - it matches the Israeli government and that's why the world is finally waking up to the reality of the Israeli Government. Thank god.

A Palestinian baby is equal to an Israeli baby if anyone disagrees with that. They are the inhumane & inflammatory idiots.

Namaste

Maireas · 24/10/2023 10:33

https://www.axios.com/2023/10/24/israel-hostages-delay-invasion-gaza-hamas
This is from Axios: disclaimer - I don't know how reputable it is. The claim is that Hamas wanted to release some hostages in exchange for a ceasefire, Israelis think it would be a precedent to their detriment, and encourage more hostage taking. Egypt now is negotiating for women and children to be released - I'm guessing without conditions?

Maireas · 24/10/2023 10:34

Thanks, @Parkingt111

beachcitygirl · 24/10/2023 10:35

Ps @Stomacharmeleon I also stand with Israeli people.
Plenty of them do not support the action of their government i much the same way as I don't stand with Suella Braverman or Sunak.

I don't stand with Israel.
I recognise the difference.

Parkingt111 · 24/10/2023 10:35

25milesfromhome · 24/10/2023 10:31

@Parkingt111 the detached speculative tone in which you discuss the Israeli hostages and possibility of them also being killed in Israeli airstrikes is quite dehumanising compared to the emotive rhetoric you employ for discussing the Palestinians. The “hostage situation” includes babies, children, women and the elderly whom, based on the evidence of Hamas’s attack on the 7th, are still probably being raped and tortured in captivity. Many of them will have seen their families murdered in front of them on the 7th. Any hostages released will not be able to speak the truth of what has happened to them for fear of reprisals for the remaining hostages and Hamas are absolute masters of optics and manipulation. Please show some compassion.

Edited to remove an accidental extra word.

Edited
Show quote history

I am sorry if that is what you took from my message or if I should have articulated it better. As its a written message it's not easy to tell the tone but I can assure you I have been praying and hoping for the release of the hostages.
Rhe interview is on now which I am watching, I have put the link above if you would like to watch it too

beachcitygirl · 24/10/2023 10:36

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Same.

Wonkasworld · 24/10/2023 10:36

When you actually compare the life of a Palestinian baby to an Israeli one is when you have bought into the PR spin. So ironic.

Maireas · 24/10/2023 10:37

Interesting interview, translated by her daughter Sharone, who is a peace activist. No dehumanising there.

EasternStandard · 24/10/2023 10:37

beachcitygirl · 24/10/2023 09:56

@EasternStandard which part of my subsequent post can't you agree with. Not a provokey question - just generally can't see what's controversial about that one & want to try and see it through your eyes.

The horrors detailed on the Hamas attack are so atrocious and barbaric, I just keep thinking how terrifying and extreme it was and is.

I just heard an Israeli woman talk of an open letter to condemn

‘We strongly implore UN Women – and all other human rights agencies – to gravely condemn the brutal attack and atrocities committed by Hamas to Israeli citizens as well as the abduction of innocent hostages, to urgently act to protect the special humanitarian rights of women and children, and to do everything in their power to expose and recognize these atrocious and horrific acts of violence against women and girls and to bring the release of all hostages immediately.’

These women are in my mind and I hear them

Wonkasworld · 24/10/2023 10:38

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beachcitygirl · 24/10/2023 10:41

@EasternStandard nothing I disagree with there.

That said bares no relation to my post to which you refer.

There can be nothing but revulsion for Hamas and their atrocities. Unequivocally. I've personally stated that many times.

Dehumanising language makes us more not less like them.

Alcemeg · 24/10/2023 10:42

A Palestinian baby is equal to an Israeli baby if anyone disagrees with that
No one disputes the equal value of any baby's life!

What's shocking to me is anyone, ever, saying "Ah, but" about this level of atrocity.

Israel music festival survivor describes attack | 'It was like animal slaughter'

Video via CNN Newsource. Sahar Ben-Sela spoke to CNN Anchor Christiane Amanpour.Israel has vowed unprecedented retaliation against the Hamas militant group r...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO1ji7le_x0

beachcitygirl · 24/10/2023 10:42

Wonkasworld · 24/10/2023 10:36

When you actually compare the life of a Palestinian baby to an Israeli one is when you have bought into the PR spin. So ironic.

What is the difference in your eyes.

beachcitygirl · 24/10/2023 10:44

@Alcemeg who is saying ah but ?
That's horrible.

And @Wonkasworld certainly seems (in her last post) to disagree that a Palestinian baby is equal to an Israeli baby. I'll give her a chance to apologise/clarity/edit/delete

People do make mistakes