Hostages

[TakeMe2Insanity]

This is running on Al Jazeera and others - apparently Israel refused to take back two hostages.

https://english.alarabiya.net/amp/News/middle-east/2023/10/21/Hamas-says-intended-to-release-two-hostages-but-Israel-refused-to-receive-them

@Trulywonderful I don't think @Desertrose2023 speaks from hate, but from grief. I don't feel qualified to judge whether conditions in Israel and the OT meet the definition of apartheid, but it's an opinion expressed by reputable organisations. You can argue against it or disagree, but it is an opinion not simply hate. And I can fully understand the grief of Palestinians, who have their lands and homes removed daily, see their journalists and children killed over years, their friends and family denied the right to return to their houses, their people now killed in appalling numbers by bombs, thirst and starvation. This did not all start on October 7th, and it's been decades of suffering. The attack on October 7th appalled the world in its cruelty and I understand the grief of Israelis too. It is a tragedy that the one place in the world they should be safe, they are not. After centuries of persecution, Jewish people deserve better, they deserve a land where they are safe. The whole situation is unbearably sad, but the only solutions are those which involve justice and empathy. @desertrose must be in agony, that shouldn't be hard to understand.

@queenofarles I agree. Which makes you wonder even more why Hamas would bite the hand that feeds, waters and employs its people. They are not thinking of the Gazan's.

They are war mongers and are only interesting in their 'aim' ridding the world of Jews. By provoking.

What would you have Israel do under the circumstances?

Interesting to see Qanta Ahmed spelling it out in no uncertain terms.

Let fuel in for babies on ventilators would be a minimum starting point

Iv just seen a video from a journalist live in gaza with a young boy with blood all over and both his legs blown off by the strike screaming
SCREAMING in pain.
My heart has shattered.

@Alcemeg we have had some good discussions and i see you as someone i can have a civilesed conversation with even if we have some differing views
maybe you think that by calling out Israels bombing we are being unreasonable

If you are on instagram go on Motaz Azaizas page and look at his stories just from today. He is a journalist in Gaza

Just so you can maybe understand better why we are so upset

And I watched the bbc last night when they showed a man covered in his 18 year old daughters blood before he was forcibly abducted after she had been shot in the head.

Hamas like televising things don't they. That footage came from his body worn camera. Whilst her siblings screamed.

It's a propaganda war with horror on both sides.

Hamas are evil scum of the earth
Israel is a democracy. This is state sanctioned terrorism

Thank you, @Parkingt111 😊

As @Stomacharmeleon says, this is a propaganda war. In the days of social media it is very easy to be manipulated by powerful images of suffering and destruction, and to seek out an echo chamber.

You've probably guessed I've had a quiet work day today/yesterday and I have honestly tried watching all sorts of things to get a balanced picture, including Al Jazeera. I've sat through whole interviews with all kinds of perspectives e.g. Lauren Booth, whose terminology I see repeated a lot on these threads. (It helps that I've discovered the "playback speed" setting and can now whizz through things at 1.5x 😉) I've read YouTube comments applauding things I disagree with, in an effort to understand things better.

I've taken a look at that Insta profile and, sorry to say, have not learned anything new. Honestly, this is not because I have a cold heart. I'm absolutely aware of the desperate plight of the Gazans. I just think it serves absolutely no one to keep pinning the blame for it on Israel when there is a far more ferocious and ruthless monster to be dealt with.

TRIGGER WARNING

@Alcemeg i saw this today and I am totally broken. I dont think il come back on this forum this evening but rather take some time out

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyyixvIroPw/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Just read 50 have died cuz of Israel air strikes

They need to do what the WHO said and confirm or deny who they have and who is alive.
I see no moral high ground when your possibly holding a three month old baby.

Yes I saw that yesterday in the Guardian [from Hamas} wasn't sure if that included the 20 or 30 that had already been reported killed in bombing last week [from IDF}

Very sad

Hope that the negotiations are going well and soon all will be released alive

They could just say who is alive now and give the bodies back to be buried of those who have died. If they can muster up every persons details who has been killed in Gaza and their id numbers they can do that.

It is prolonging the agony and far removed from the kind 'they looked after me' narrative they want us to believe.

I'm not sure that there's a system as everything is breaking down and I'm a bit sceptical of the list but who knows - there was a process for recording deaths in Gaza before the war like in any country

The first report of the 20-30 deaths from official Israeli sources made it sound like the IDF had found the bodies on a sortie - no mention of retrieving them but maybe IDF got their information from Hamas. Can't find this report now as flooded with most recent reported deaths no matter how carefully you word the search.

The first report of the 20-30 deaths from official Israeli sources made it sound like the IDF had found the bodies on a sortie - no mention of retrieving them but maybe IDF got their information from Hamas.

This report says the IDF found and retrieved them.

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-768211

I hope Hamas disappear.
May the victims rest in peace

There has been reports that 8 more hostages may be released
By the request of Russia

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-said-to-tell-moscow-its-looking-for-8-russians-among-hostages-will-free-them/

It's just horrific. Not necessarily the ill , the babies, the elderly.
Those who have Russian duel nationality, if they can find them, as they don't know where they all are and some other Terrorist groups have some of them.
I feel physically sick....

"All hostages are considered Israeli" - unless they're Russian. I wonder why? (Rhetorical question.)

https://www.newarab.com/news/hamas-says-cannot-release-hostages-until-ceasefire

The group of Thailand workers that were taken definitely are not Israeli and don't have dual citizenship

Hamas just took random people and knew they were not soilders or all Israeli.

Latest update was Hamas said they would release all hostages in exchange for all palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails

Of course they did, they don't care. More than one of the migrant workers was murdered too.

Israel has said they will go in to gaza and release the hostages but it seems like an impossible task to do right now especially in taking the hostages out alive

It just said on Sky that when Gilad Shalit was released in exchange four 1000 Palestinians, one of those Palestinians was the senior Hamas commander on the ground right now. Another black mark against Netanyahu as far as many Israelis are concerned.