Why did Israeli settlers move into the Palestinian Territories?

[MaggieFS]

Firstly, please excuse my naivety and note that I don't support either side in the current conflict. I am appalled but the atrocities inflicted by both sides.

The media attention has caused me to read up on the complicated history.

One thing I can't understand. After 1967 Israeli settlers moved into what had been proposed as Palestinian Territories after 1947. Why? At an individual level, were people incentivised?

I was taught about antisemitism too. It is bit better now once MNHQ reiterated it.

That's why I didn't bother reading the thread!

It is difficult to find resources that are neutral on the Palestinian- Israeli conflict but this lecture from J.L. Gelvin covers most of it in 30 min plus question time

starts at 11.13 min

I read this somewhere that this was one of the reasons it took so long for the IDF to come but I wasn't sure if it was true.
I have seen many videos on social media of terrible behaviour by the settlers. The only thing is though that most won't know that ordinary Israelis are also against this and generally just paints the whole of Israeli society in a very bad light

I dont understand why i was deleted above. My post was then quoted a few times by other posters who gave me well thought out replies to my question. I didnt say anything not repeated here by other posters who's posts still stand. My post was a genuine question.

The idea that Jewish people don't experience racism because they can't be recognised as Jewish is rather incredible. Think about all the persecution and ghettoisation and pogroms they could have avoided if only they had thought about melting away into the rest of the population. Also many Jewish people are black or Middle Eastern. Jewish people are literally Middle Eastern in origin.

Jewish people who aren’t white definitely experience racism (they experience anti-semetism AND racism & racism within the Jewish community too). Orthodox white Jews who dress religiously experience racism, just like strict white Muslims and Hindus who dress religiously do. But moderate white people of any religion who aren’t religious and living their daily lives absolutely do not experience racism in the UK and it’s insulting to imply they do.

Not saying they don't experience racism. The initial comment has been completely ripped apart, and taken out of context.
Though frankly I've given up being on this thread as no criticism is alllowed, as easy to blame someone for being an anti semite, not recognize the plight of Jews. It's not a competition. My initial point was that it it's not only the Jews who suffer, other minorities do too but this does not mean Israel has the right to invade or attack Gaza. But of course, it could be that this thread has drawn in primary Jewish posters who have ignored their own inherent bias.

The Zionists

I'm Ashkenazi. To most people they probably wouldn't recognise that I was Jewish just by looking, although if they saw me with my family they might notice as we have some quite classic Ashkenazi features. I am probably the least Jewish / most white looking.

I'm not really religious, I am certainly not frum. Nothing in the way I dress suggests my ethnicity. My name might give a clue.

Despite that I've experienced antisemitism which is a form of racism. Nazi jokes, accusations of being money grabbing / tight, blame for all sorts of random shit which has nothing to do with me. As a child / teen this included bullying and physical violence.

I guess if I changed my name, was careful not to be seen with family or other Jews, never told anyone my family history etc. then the fact I have fair skin might protect me.

@piddocktrumperiness will the UK government ( as well as Dutch, French Spanish German Swiss Italian Russian etc etc ) apologise for previous wrongs, in my opinion only in a vague way that acknowledging it shouldn't have happened but it can't actually now be changed it is too long ago. Maybe if the English Government at the time hadn't been persecuting non conforming protestants they would not have left for American, if German leaders hadn't threatened anabaptists with death they might not have left, but it wasn't these governments that forced them to take other people's terriotories when they arrived. If the Irish had not been starving from the potato famine tens of thousands of them might not have migrated, but then they might as you can't endlessly keep sub dividing farms so some economic migration would have been necessary some went to London and Glasgow and Liverpool some USA, most people in the midwest in USA have German rather than British origin. All of this is true without going back as far as African american slave trade. or indeed further back

The problem with lots of issues in the world is that the history goes back centuries / milleniums with land changing hands multiple times ( like in Ukraine Kashmir) etc the Balkans
There are other problems elsewhere where borders have been drawn up by "committee" with straight lines rather than follow tribal lands rivers etc ( see Northern Nigeria)
all history and land claims are incredibly complicated how far do you go back and who decides the cut off point. When is too far back ? the Vikings raiding Yorkshire possibly far too long ago the Visgoths invading Rome definitely
It is a minefield

>>Antisemitism cases have risen in London alone by 1,353% in the last two weeks.

source?

@FordAnglia Reuters

link to article/release please?
so can see how framed/described.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/antisemitic-islamophobic-offences-soar-london-after-israel-attacks-2023-10-20/

Thanks for this link. I've ordered the book and await its arrival!

Yep the online newspapers are reporting it too.

This is true. Chris Williamson posted that Israel has lost its right to exist!. Also said that Israel must be dismantled for peace

It's important to remember that for many people, including hamas, this is not about the occupation. It's about Israel's existence. Prior to 1967, Israel didn't occupy anything but it was still boycotted and attacked. That's why the hamas apologists on this thread speak of 75-80 years of oppression, not 50.

I believe Israel should end the occupation, the settlements are wrong. But I won't apologise for Israel existing or that it is illegitimate or unique in what happened or have it painted as some kind of satanic country or the Palestinians as hapless victims lacking all.agency.

And, yes, there is something ironic about queer/gay people using their serial orientation as some kind of identity politics to support Palestine. I mean, of course, how you feel about israel/Palestine is not driven by your sexual orientation but probably good to recognise that going around with a sign 'Queers for Gaza' actually in Gaza would not bode well for you.

On another thread a you tube link was shown- I cannot find that thread please can someone link it for me

@Mintyt what was the video about? Does anyone know what the church thread has been taken down?

why the church

@feralunderclass it was an explanation of the history, loads of people recommend it but I can't find it

That depends on if you sign up to a DNA testing ancestry website, like lots of other people do for fun.

A million Ashkenazi Jews were targeted in a 23andMe data hack, with their details, naming them as Jews up for sale, just before the Hamas attack on Israel.

It reminds me of how the antisemites on twitter signal to other racists whether certain people are Jewish by putting brackets around their name.

Anyone suggesting that Jewish people who don't look Jewish can avoid racism should be aware that there are people out there diligently 'outing' Jews so that people know exactly who to target.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/23andme-user-data-targeting-ashkenazi-jews-leaked-online-rcna119324

@noblegiraffe absolutely sick 😔