Why did Israeli settlers move into the Palestinian Territories?

[MaggieFS]

Firstly, please excuse my naivety and note that I don't support either side in the current conflict. I am appalled but the atrocities inflicted by both sides.

The media attention has caused me to read up on the complicated history.

One thing I can't understand. After 1967 Israeli settlers moved into what had been proposed as Palestinian Territories after 1947. Why? At an individual level, were people incentivised?

I asked Chatgpt this question and this is what it came up with:

ChatGPT

Israeli settlers moved onto Palestinian land after the 1967 Six-Day War for various reasons, including religious, political, and security motivations. Some of the key factors include:

Religious Beliefs: Many Israeli settlers have strong religious convictions tied to the historical and biblical significance of the West Bank and other territories. They believe that these areas are part of the ancient Jewish homeland and that settling there fulfills religious and national aspirations.

Political Objectives: Some Israeli governments have supported settlement expansion as a means to strengthen Israel's territorial claims and maintain a strategic presence in the West Bank. Settlements can serve as a way to establish "facts on the ground" and influence negotiations.

Security Concerns: There has been a perception among some Israelis that having settlements in the West Bank enhances security by creating a buffer zone between Israel and potential threats. Some settlements are strategically located for this purpose.

Economic Incentives: The Israeli government has at times offered financial incentives and subsidies to encourage Israeli citizens to move to settlements, making it more attractive for some to do so.

Nationalist Sentiments: Settler communities have been driven by a strong sense of nationalism and a desire to assert sovereignty over these areas.

It's important to note that settlement construction has been a contentious and divisive issue in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, with many Palestinians and the international community viewing it as an obstacle to the peace process. The status and expansion of settlements have been a source of ongoing conflict and diplomatic tensions in the region.

Very interesting. Thank you. I didn't think of asking AI!

All these photos show are illegal Jewish settlements in the occupied Palestinian territory of the West Bank. These are called settlements. According to the United Nations resolutions, Israel cannot build any colonies in the territory it occupies. But why would it be Israel? Approximately five million Jews live in the settlements built since 1970.

The Israeli government gives grants to these colonies. It gives tax exemptions to Jews living there. Although the area where these Jews live is not Israel, Israeli law applies to them. For the rest of the Palestinians, the laws of the Palestinian Authority apply. This means that even if a Jew kills a Palestinian, even if the killing took place in Palestinian territory, he will be prosecuted under Israeli law. How is Israeli democracy?

Who is to say that the colonists treat the native Arabs as worse than vermin because this is the Jewish state? And the kingship is his, and the Arabs are the owner of the land.??

Following as also confused.
On a very simple level my understanding is that the conflict over land goes back to Abraham who had two sons, Isaac (with his wife Sarah - this is the Jewish line) and Ishmael (with Sarah's servant Hagar - this is the Arab line) Abraham was given the Promised land - modern day Israel.

I know that doesn't answer the question but it's helpful to remember (I think)

@garlicandsapphires Yes, as part of what I've been reading it's definitely important to remember this goes back an awfully long way, and a lot further than is typically talked about.

In the last Ottoman census (around 1878) the population of Palestine consisted of approx 3% Jews, 2% Jewish foreign born (who were migrants) 5% Christian and the remaining Muslim. In 1948, within weeks of the state of Israel being official, more than 70% of Palestine had been confiscated. Land, homes, schools, farms given over to Jewish people.
What I find most strange is that the posters who claim that the Palestinians are "unreasonable for feeling tied to the land" then go on to say that the Jews were there 4000 years ago so have more right to it. Totally disregarding that this is the home and land that Palestinians have lived (and owned!) for centuries. It totally defies common sense and logic.

If nothing else, settlers in the West Bank seems wrong.

What i can't understand is how when the Jews were treated so terribly in the war with their homes and possessions stolen from them by the nazis, they feel it is their right to do that to the Palestinian people.

On the back of millenia of persecution and forced expulsions, it fostered a mindset that the only people that care about the Jews are the Jews.
That they are the only ones who can keep their people safe, and that the protestations of other nations are heard but not acted on, because the motivations and sincerity and promises are doubted. That when Jews were oppressed, expelled and genocidal murder was thrust upon them, no nation stood up for them. So they became self-reliant. USA can ask, as can the UN, but Israel will forge its own path.
Abused people sometimes become abusers.

Well absolutely!

Abused people sometimes become abusers

And this is where the cycle continues 😔

Anecdotally settlers are often Jews making aliyah - moving from elsewhere in the world to come “home”. There are generous subsidies from the gov’t for this. And this land is obviously less desirable than Tel Aviv or similar, so cheaper.

Lots of Jews and Israelis are not fans of the settlers either, it’s not that the policy is popular or supported among many ordinary Israelis (though you could say that about the gov’t as a whole at the mo).

@TheWayTheLightFalls I think that is my main problem with the notion of a 'homeland' for anyone built upon the oppression and erasure of the people whose home it actually is. I've been to settlements and met settlers. What struck me as particularly painful (if that's the right word) is that many of them were from wealthy Jewish communities in US, they were happy and very much flourishing by their own admission. They weren't living in fear of their lives, they want to move to Israel as they believe it's their right. Many don't settle permanently either, they go between US and Israel.
From a statistical perspective I don't believe the notion of a home land for Jewish people's survival is strictly necessary. I completely understand why they would want it though. Jonathan Faith was part of a BBC4 docuseries on the history of Jewish people in UK, and he said the biggest threat to the religion is that they are marrying out. Can't remember exact figures but every year in the UK the % of people identifying as Jews is decreasing. Not because they are literally being wiped out, but because they marry out and don't pass religion on, so their dc don't identify as Jews. It's the same for Christians. He spends huge amounts of his wealth every year in trying to revive the religiosity of people who are born Jewish.

@feralunderclass arguably the root of the conflict is that both sides believe they have an exclusive right to that land that was granted to them by God. In that sense (I'm not saying in every sense) they are as bad as each other.

For Jews, Israel is the centre of the universe. They have directed their prayers towards Israel for thousands of years. Their God is the "God of Israel". Jews are descendants of the 12 tribes of Israel. All of their traditions and rituals centre around Israel. After the exile, they had no homeland and suffered horrific persecution everywhere they settled. A homeland was essential for the survival of the Jewish race. Jews were there already, bear in mind, just that more came to settle there after the Holocaust.

Also, there have been repeated attempts on the part of Israel to establish a separate Palestinian state and share the land, but Palestine has refused every single request. The only resolution they will accept is no Israel at all.

https://www.civilsdaily.com/news/gandhis-stance-on-israel-and-palestine-a-closer-look/?fbclid=IwAR1EHGyimX7dz62_a1AaiANe3dT7rH7w-IF-me26F554x8bGY5lv3RIYZsY

From a statistical perspective I don't believe the notion of a home land for Jewish people's survival is strictly necessary.

Well… the latter part of the 20th century was about as peaceful as things have ever (ever - 5,000 years and counting) been for the Jews. Jews have been persecuted here, there and everywhere since the dawn of time, which makes a strong case for a homeland. In 1947 that must have been felt even more acutely. I also don’t agree with the marrying out point - Judaism is a race (and matrilineal, if you want the religious perspective). However much I eat bacon / drive on the Sabbath / marry a non-Jew / behave in other ways that seem like a denouncement of the religious aspect of Judaism, I am still a Jew. I am fair game to the next Hitler (or Hamas). Which is fine if it’s one nutter, less fine if it’s state-sanctioned genocide.

Does that mean I condone the settler movement? No. Does that mean that my suffering or risk is greater than a Palestinian’s? No.

What struck me as particularly painful (if that's the right word) is that many of them were from wealthy Jewish communities in US, they were happy and very much flourishing by their own admission.

My family in Germany lived very much like this for hundreds of years. Happy, flourishing, wealthy. Until they weren't. Almost no Jews feel secure anywhere in the world.

Think about it. If they were flourishing and wealthy, why would they uproot their lives to settle in a dusty wilderness with no infrastructure where it was extremely difficult to grow anything?
Make no mistake, Jews returned to Israel for survival purposes. They had literally just witnessed millions of their people gassed. It was clear to them that they would never really be safe anywhere except in a Jewish state.

Also, 1/5 of the population of Israel is Arab btw.

I don't think it's been at all helpful to remember that thoug! In fact, remembering that Abraham gave some land to 'his' people is the source of all the problems isn't it?

3000 years, with no other claim to that land but that "Abraham said...."

The sooner that's forgotten, the better.

there is really no justification for moving into peoples homes and taking their land

Firstly good question

Secondly I don't agree settlements should be built in the west bank. This needs to stop. However I think that integration now needs to be managed so how for those that are there now. No more people losing homes on either side. Plus a better understanding and intergation by all would result in stability.

Thirdly around 70 thousand Jews returned to there homes once Jordan ended their occupation of the west bank in the 60s to 70s. These are the people living there before 1948 and there family. They have now gone on to grow their families. So I have no idea how many people but they are talked about like being the same as illegal settlers. These are not the says illegal settlers. They will obviously only account for a small percentage of Jews in the west bank though. Still you cajust kick them out as sometimes people want to do.

The only thing that matters is peace for everyone living on the land currently. That means no more building settlements. No more evictions for anyone. An outside body overseeing peace until integration is estimated. The PO can still stay in charge until it is stable enough elections at least. However the outside body ideally an Arab state that wants peace polices for the time being.

I don't think many people struggle to understand why the Jewish people wanted a home state after the horrors they had been through. The question is whether it was a good idea to establish that state on someone else's land. There's no denying that the establishment of Israel meant the forcible dispossession of Palestinians who had lived and worked there for generations. It was a violent process. The real villains were the US and British who exploited the desperation and trauma of the Jewish people because THEY wanted a bolthole in the Middle East.

Israel was then created as a buffer between the Arab and western societies... 70 odd years ago. After 2000 odd years of occupation/ foreign rule.

Then you also have to question if the ruling nations did settle there and how long have they been there.... and so on.

It's such an entangled mess, and the people who really suffer are the ones who probably always have been living there. They may have changed religion, taking invaders as spouse or bought land through corruption and bribery. But they might just have been living there from the year dod and are now turfed out.