Why did Israeli settlers move into the Palestinian Territories?

[MaggieFS]

Firstly, please excuse my naivety and note that I don't support either side in the current conflict. I am appalled but the atrocities inflicted by both sides.

The media attention has caused me to read up on the complicated history.

One thing I can't understand. After 1967 Israeli settlers moved into what had been proposed as Palestinian Territories after 1947. Why? At an individual level, were people incentivised?

A city near me used to have a thriving Jewish Community in the early 1900s-1970ish. There are two synagogues that aren't synagogues any more, and a Jewish section in the cemetery. I visited the current synagogue not so long ago, and the man giving us the talk about the history was a "Christian of Jewish descent". The community has virtually disappeared due to people marrying out and/or moving elsewhere. I was shocked to discover in my 40s quite a few people I know have local Jewish ancestry, but don't consider themselves Jewish.

This is so poorly thought out it's staggering. Immigrants to the US don't have the right to choose a property with a family living in it and have the US army remove the inhabitants at gun point so they can move in. Which is what happens when Palestinian land is forcibly "settled".

You should read this book: https://www.amazon.com/Lords-Land-Settlements-Territories-1967-2007/dp/B003STCPSK

It explains how the settlement movement managed to gain traction and become government policy. In the early days, it absolutely was not government policy.

It's not so long ago that the US did behave like this. Both forcing native Americans onto reservations and then re-allocating land if minerals/oil were discovered.

Another question, again, pardon my ignorance I am seeking to understand facts.

If the West Bank and Gaza were designated as Palestinian Territories. And given they have such robust fortified borders with Israel, how was it possible for the Israeli government to giver/determine land within them for settlements?

Indeed. And most of us take a dim view of anyone who still thinks that's acceptable behaviour in 2023.

@MaggieFS They should not have- That is why it is illegal.

My point was in reference to a poster who said that the Jews are discriminated against wherever they go, hence the need for Israel. If you had to walk in my shoes a statement like that hits really hard. A Jewish person is not clearly an other, a dark skinned person like me - it’s very obvious. So I do have a right to a voice and does not make my opinion anti semitic.

This is why most Palestinians are pissed off.

Netanyahu is a zealot. A supremacist. He does not believe that the Palestinian territories are Palestinian- he believes they should belong to the Jews. He also panders to the far right ultra groups who believe all the land is their right

@LondonMummer

also @MaggieFS Netanyahu believes that encroaching on occupied territories 'wins back' land.
You see, if you encroach and build settlements- this requires police and military presence to protect the settlers therefore indirectly keeping a very close eye on the Palestinians

That's now, not then.
First of all, Gaza and Wb had been previously occupied by Egypt and Jordan respectively from 1948.
Why they never established a Palestinian state in those years is a good question.
After winning the 6 day war (when israel was attacked by Egypt, Syria and jordan), Israel won all of the sinai, gaza, wb and Golant heights.
There were settlements established in sinai but they were dismantled when israel gave back all of sinai for peace.

Previously, there was no fence or it was easily crossed. Palestinians used to work freely in israel, you used to see Palestinian cars everywhere.

It's crazy how much it's changed. The restrictions really started with the hamas bombings in the 90s and got super strict during the 2nd intifada when the separation fence was built

Everyone has been horrified to hear the chants of 'Gas the Jews' in Australia and the outpouring of jew hatred across the country and around the world. It has woken people up to the fact that anti-sematism is real and deep rooted.
I think that it is a turning point in understanding in the West.

Many ordinary Israelis do not believe settlers should be on this land either and resent that the IDF are often put in harms way to guard them.

The government is that of proportional representation so Netanyahu has (I think) allied his already fairly right wing party with the ultra hard right who believe in the right to settlement.

6 million Jews slaughtered in the holocaust may beg to differ.

That is definitely wrong, it was an isolated incident in Aus I believe? Similar to the Muslim boy who was stabbed in US. I’m not saying anti semitism does not exist, it is as real as anti Muslim sentiments and racism that other groups face. What I do believe is wrong is calling someone an anti semite if they hold Israel accountable for its actions. And to say that its actions are justified because Jews are persecuted. I am not an anti semite, I am against this war. I am anti war. If we do not hold both Hamas and the actions of the Israeli govt accountable then this will continue to prolong and lots more children will die.

@Meshigenus Oh ok so slavery of blacks and colonization of Indians was ok then? Lots of people have suffered for generations, but using the holocaust to justify Israel’s actions is not ok. I’m not anti semitic, holding Israel accountable for its actions does not make a person an anti semite. The holocaust does not give Israel the right to invade another country.

As my post made crystal clear I have no right to tell you about your experience as a non white person.

Equally you have no idea what it is like to be Jewish. We are not as you seem to think 'hidden in plain sight'. We are not immune to racism despite our skin colour.

Jewish people are an ethnicity as well as a religion. We weren't just given some random spot of land. It might have been atrociously handled by the British but Jews have lived in Israel which is considered our homeland since biblical times.

The most offensive part of your post was when you stated that racism wasn't exclusive to Jews (who said it was?) and that it 'shouldn't be used to wage a war'. 'Jews' did not start a war. Prior to that you also said "they [Jews] can't keep using the Holocaust .."

Your post was deeply offensive to me for a number of reasons and if you search a previous thread that explained the international definition of Antisemitism you might understand why.

To give you the benefit of the doubt I'm going to assume you don't know what it's like to walk in my shoes as Jewish person (why would you, as I say I don't profess to speak to your lived experience of racism) so please can I urge you to read David Baddiel's Jewish Don't Count as it explains my response with enormous clarity.

Yes, I'm israeli and I don't agree with the settlements. I think the occupation has been disastrous for israeli society too. I think its wrong and makes no sense legally since israel has not actually annexed the west bank

Re the right wing govt, part of the problem is that the centre and left refuse to sit in a govt led by Netanyahu (since he's a criminal). That's why he went to the far right to form a government (together with the ultra orthodox). Absolute shitshow.

You know why it took the army so long to arrive at the villages around gaza? Because they were in the west bank, guarding settlers who had put up a succah in the middle of huwara and other such shenanigans

To say Israelis are mad at the government and Netanyahu is an understatement.

Yup. History is not an excuse. Yes, there is undeniable trauma but people can't just punish people in the here and now for the crimes of the past. We have to try and acknowledge, learn from and make sure it doesn't happen again. All I see is endless suffering as children are born into this, growing up surrounded by scarred and broken adults who cannot find a way to exist peacefully.

Thank you for asking OP.

So Israel was "born" but the government decided Israel wasn't big enough and has encouraged Jewish people to settle just outside it's borders? So this Palestine war is just a basic land grab? All these deaths (on both sides) could have been avoided if the (subsequent) governments hadn't been greedy for power? I really hope I've got that wrong 😱

It's incredible to me that people still refer others to Baddiel for an explanation of antisemitism. Who wants a lesson in racism from a man who donned blackface to ridicule a footballer he didn't like

@LondonMummer of course, I don't know what it's like to walk in your shoes. And you don't know what it's like to walk in mine. My previous comment was directed at another poster and you have taken it out of context.

To be honest, I find it deeply offensive that people can be accused of being an anti semite for calling out the Israeli government.

Is it a genocide contest?. I didn't realise

What country has israel invaded?

And perhaps a little tone deaf considering that 2 weeks ago, jewish babies were beheaded, families burnt alive, children hiding in closets to escape massacre after their parents were slaughtered, torture and rape, children and old people kidnapped.

I really hope I've got that wrong 😱

Great news - you have! Go read some historical sources about the Middle East, the British mandate, the founding of Israel, how Hamas came to be and how they’re funded, the timing of the past week, and then think about whether you still stand by what you’ve written.