To TTC or not to TTC, that is one of the many questions...

[YorkshireTeaDrinker]

Ok fellow ditherers, as we have filled up one thread (and still not made too many firm decisions) here's another one for us to continue to procrastinate and worry on.

Here's to more monitoring of relative green and redness, mutual support and occassional chivving, discussion of everything baby or not baby related, and perhaps even our first BFP...?

Just got in from a meal out, so have prob missed you. Will be around tomorrow at various points! Hope u are ok and haven't been too dismayed at the doggies conversational skills!

Hello,
Nice meal out? I ended up going to bed about 10pm last night (was feeling a bit flat but not really sure why) and was out at 9.30 on a massive walk (now have very tired dog.)

Today is meant to be spent cleaning and tidying as we have someone from the estate agents coming round on Tuesday. DH is on his way back from his parents (he stays with them when he see's his son) and said we've loads to do to get it ready. I can tell already that over 70% of what he is going to think needs doing, I won't agree with. People, ourselves included, get a feel for a house regardless of decor (and most want to decorate it in their own taste anad style anyway) and as long as it doesn't stink, isn't faling down and similar it'll be fine.

DH's parents annoyed me by proxy too last night and I am starting to see them as a bit controlling. His mother is nice enough in many ways but very timid and a 'fretter' (this word was made for her!) This fretting then tends to influence DH as he doesn't want to upset her / them (his dad isn't as bad) Apparently last night she was 'fretting' about us potentially moving to this house we like as it's by a river and was getting all upset. DH then got upset as she was etc etc etc and rang me up to vent. I just got annoyed - neither of us have a long track record of stupid decisions and this is something we are THOROUGHLY looking into before we make our minds up finally. His parents though just don't want us to, and think we should look elsewhere as there are plenty of others etc etc. When DH said we are, but will probably go for this one etc she gets upset. Again. Argh!

Rant over! I can't obviously say to DH how infuriating I find her / them (they are VERY conventional, very bland but their hearts arer in the right place, even if they do spend half their time worrying needlessly about nothing). I think he might too but it's different for him as they're his parents. I'm used to a banter with my family whereas his all sit quietly making polite conversatiuon about bland things - it can be hard work!

So, ladies - tell me about your in-laws....?

Yes, it was lovely thanks! Good to see friends and catch up.

Ooo, other peoples families. Can be a tricky one, epsecially men and their mothers. But at the end of the day you are his wife, and his mam isnt going to be living in the house in DreamTown by the river, so its up to you and DH which way you want to go. It is frustrating when an external person has undue influence on something that should be between the two of you. Maybe once he gets home and away from the fretting he will be able to put it in perspective and the two of you can have a rational discussion about what has been said. If you have the desire to, you can address her concerns regarding the house, show her the checks etc, but if you dont think it will make any difference because this is really all about her not wanting you to move, then perhaps you both will have to just let it go and focus on the goal - finishing your current house so you can start your new life. Speaking of which, lets hope he hasnt cooked up a massive list of problems to 'fix' in your house . When I was looking round places, I just wanted to see a nice, clean happy-feeling place with no obvious 'red flags' like an ancient boiler, crumbling window frames or half done DIY jobs (but thats because we wearnt looking for a fixer-upper). You never know what someone is looking for.

I've known my in-laws since I was a wee lass, so we have a slightly different relationship. They are very kind people who lead a very simple life. They have had a lot of stuff to deal with over the years, like health stuff, and sometimes they are infuriating, but I couldnt be without them. I hope they think of me as a daughter, and I try hard to deal with their 'little ways' in the same way I accept my families - with a straight face and a small rant to DH!!! The only bone of contention was their previous putting first of DHs brother and their undeserved worship of him, but that may be coming to an end. Oh, and the baby thing.....

My impression of TCOYF, by HoneyPetal SparklePants.

I have had a first pass of TCOYF, as it is a pretty large beast to take on board (or 'internalize' as she would put it....).

I have to say it was an interesting read. Just out of interest, is anyone using it on here, either to prevent or encourage baby-formation? And I assume Im not the only one of us to read it, has anyone else?

Anyway, mainly for Confused as I know she hasnt read it for sure, the book descibes the Fertility Awareness Method, or FAM. The author takes great pains to distinguish between the rubbish rhythm method, which uses past fertilty signs (like length of cycle etc) to predict in future cycles when you are safe to have unprotected sex. Rather, FAM requires that you monitor daily signs as and when they happen to make a decision on that day whether to bag-up or abstain or go for it. The three signs are 1. Cervical fluid (or as I prefer, eggy juice) 2. Basal body temp (your core temp on waking) and 3. Cervix position. Seriously.

So far, so simple. The interesting bit for me was that these things actually do occur - I had picked up a lot of stuff on MN but it was interesting to see it spelt out. Your eggy fluid apparently changes consistancy around ovulation to the famous twangy egg white stuff, your temperature increases just after ovulation and your cervix bounces around in there as well. Im trying to cast my mind back 17 years to see if I recall any funny juices, but cant seem to recall ()!

She provides explanations as to why these patterns are seen and gives you charts to plot them all out on. I am loving the idea of making a graph out of my monthly cycle . What you are required to do is take your temperature at the same time every day, on waking, and check your gusset (or other more intimite bits) for the flow of juices. Cervical position is optional.

The tone of the book is very passionate and in my opinion a little bit too dismissive or critical of conventional hormonal methods that have worked for many women, myself included, and have prevented many an unwanted pregnancy or upsetting abortion. She raises many interesting points about the politics of contraception and questions why the focus seems to mainly be on womens bodies when men are fertile every day of their adult lives. But thats quite a big question!

So, my summary is:

1. Am I glad I read the book - yes. I learnt a lot.
2. Would I use it for my sole method of contraception - no. (More below)
3. Would I use it to try and get a BFP - yes, but maybe not straight away.
4. Would I recommend it - yes, its worth a read for sure.

The reason I wouldnt fancy relying on it 100% is Im not sure about the first half of your cycle, building up to ovulation. You have to really know when to stop the unprotected loving and switch to abstainance or whatever. Im not sure my interpretation of eggy juice would be up to that! But maybe an experienced person could do it.

Saying that, if and when I come off the pill, I will definitely give parts of FAM a go to see what is happening in my body. Cervical position will have to forver remain a mystery to me though. No way.

Hi all,

Actually back from a week staying with my in-laws, well my MIL anyway, and two SILs and their kids (well, most of them were only there for three days, to be fair). I have to say, though, that I'm very very lucky with mine. They are lovely, and live in Ireland so couldn't be controlling if they tried. I guess some people might find my MIL a bit intrusive - she's quite direct, and has asked about the IVF, but then I did talk about it in the first place with her, so I can't really complain. And I'm quite open about things and am probably at one end of the spectrum over privacy (i.e. ridiculously over-share with almost everyone - a huge surprise to you all on here, right?! ) so she and I are fairly like-minded. Was the tiniest bit miffed that she didn't wait until I raised the whole IVF thing this week, and as she asked directly I ended up telling her I was having it next month (something I haven't told my own mother, and don't intend to as I can't cope with their expectation and possible disappointment). I think it's probably good we don't see too much of them, as there would probably be lots more of this - but if she has a fault, it's one I totally understand (though hope I'm never intrusive with other people), so don't mind too much. And DH's dad and siblings are lovely. His dad doesn't say much about anything personal but is nice and affectionate. I always feel a bit dull when I'm with that family though, as it's big, and there are big personalities in it, and there's a kind of value placed on wit and banter and storytelling (it's such a cliche about the Irish but really true about them) - something I like about my DH but don't feel I can always compete with. But I'm quite close to a couple of his sisters, and also his brother's wife (who is also English), so that has helped. And I definitely feel close to his parents and feel that if anything happened to mine, they would be even more important to me.

We had a slightly hilarious time this week, though - it was prime TTC week (sure there's a code for this but can't remember it!!) and so we were trying to do the deed at least a bit (last chance, after all!), and one day wanted to do it one afternoon as we were going out later and DH at least was going to have a few drinks. So I said I was going to have a shower before going out, and DH came into the bedroom with me (it's an en-suite). I ended up shutting the door with his little niece (who has just turned three) in the corridor and she went running back to the assembled family saying 'Two of them are going to have a shower together. Two of them are going to have a shower together.' x 100! I don't know what they thought but it felt to us that it must have been totally obvious what was happening!!

Really really hope you get the house, confused - it really sounds like he might drop the price - he must be wondering what's going to happen after this time. And if the other house is only £2k more, with so much less to do on it, that's got to be a powerful argument for this one being 'worth' less (although what a house is 'worth' is such a fiction anyway in any context). I'm with HP (and indeed you!) on not doing too much to your current one - people like to have some sort of project in mind when they look round a house, and are looking for basic soundness rather than anything too finished. Or that was us, anyway.

I have that book, HP! I have to say I didn't fully engage with it or go through it thoroughly, in part because I didn't seem to conform to the descriptions entirely closely and didn't always manage to identify my fertile days - though missed the bit about them being so much fewer for those in their thirties so perhaps that's why. I do worry that if I really tried and paid more attention I could (or could have) avoided the need for IVF. But I did sort of raise this with the doc and she said that I was ovulating and that after four and a half years it was odd that it happened naturally (and I did do peeing on sticks for a few months to identify ovulation...). I now (perversely, after all my wailing about the wait) almost want a couple more months to go all out trying natural methods and cleaner living. But I think I've probably been as sober and diligent as I can be recently (not that that's perfect by any means).

Anyway, sorry for mammoth mail. Welcome rimmer and deliriouscow and everyone, and good luck to you with recalcitrant DHs (in fact that's most of us, let's face it!). If mine can semi-come round, anyone's can, trust me. Really sorry about the whole possible redundancy thing, Suerock (and attendant effects...) - must be really hard. Hope you can find some distractions while you have the difficult wait.

Hope you're all keeping warm - back home now and the house of course has got unbelievably cold in our absence. Going to try to light a fire in our grate for the very first time (the chimney's been swept, don't worry folks!) tonight though so quite excited about that (little things!). xx

Hmmm, families - both your own and one's you've acquired, can drive you mad. I think I may have come across more cross than perhaps I was - I find DH's parents very steady but that, with the endless worry (over a man who has never really given them cause to) is a pain at times. Also, and of course they don't know this, this fretty needy mentality ended up having an adverse effect on DH as he ended up with both destructive relationships and a stress problem - he was told this by a psychiatrist he ended up seeing. I can't remember the specifics but it was linked to his parents. (Might ask him later but it's a tricky one to bring up - watch this space.)

He's just walked in so am going to shoot but will be back again in an hour or so

Am sat in a cafe bar down the road as have left DH sanding a sill above the french windows. I had never noticed it needed sanding, stripping and repainting on account of it being invisible unless I was 7 foot tall, on a ladder in the garden or being dangled out the upstairs window head first. Still, DH has noticed so am biting my lip and leaving him to it. (Madness!)

That book, the fertility one, sounds vaguely interesting but, indeed, a faff. Maybe I would be more inclined to look more into such things if I didn't have things to constantly monitor on account of being a T1 diabetic, but as it is I am embarassingly slack about such things. It is no exaggeration to say that my period takes me by surprise most months and I haven't the foggiest about my, urgh, cervical mucus either. And as for the postition of said cervix, I know where it is but that's about it! I wonder if deciding to start a family would mean that I turn into a temperature monitoring / mucus spotting obsessive to maximise chances? Perhaps if it would increase the chances of a BFP but I think I'd just stick to the lots of shagging for a bit first!

Sounds like you all have some lovely in-laws. I guess mine are okay, they are just NOT my kind of people and DH always acts differently too when he is with them. They all sit together for hours making bland small talk but noone ever seems to have an opinion (might be different to someone else's opinion so they keep such thoughts to themselves) or any feistyness about them. MIL once asked me what my grandad did when he worked and when I told her (lots of things, including running an illegal casino and selling porn from the back of a launderette - this venture folded when porn was legalised) she smiled in a fixed way and has never asked me about anyone else!

I think MIL is all for our imminent move but she just see's the negative (or potential negative) in things and then gets in a fret about it. This in turn affects DH and so on and ON. He said when he came back that he has assured her that it's okay and we're not doing anything silly and seemed to think she got the message. I do hope so!

LST I love the story about your neice inadvertently announcing you were going for a shag! Ha! And too! Sounds good that your MIL is quite direct in some ways as at least you can be straight with one another. Am I right in getting the impression you can tell her to butt out too if you wanted or needed to?

Evening all,

Interesting to read what you think about that book, HP - I've glanced at it on Amazon but always been put off by thinking it was a bit earth-mother-anti-conventional-medicine-ish. But maybe I should give it the benefit of the doubt. However, I think I know when I'm ovulating and am fairly in tune with my body (or so I think at the moment at any rate!) - just need to get DH in tune with his too - is there a TCOYF for Men?

ILs - mine are very lovely, very eccentric and very keen to have another grandchild! Nuff said.

LOL at showering together LST! Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings and all that....

Good luck with the house stuff confused. I think I must've missed a bunch of posts - have you got your eye on a particular property then? Put in an offer? Exciting stuff!

Sorry I wasn't around yesterday evening - I was splodged in front of the TV surrounded by a mound of rainbow coloured knitting yarn and am now up to the armpits of the back of The Cardigan. The race is on, girls!

The cardigan?! You mean THE cardigan? Oooh! It would be a close call, what with LST starting IVF next month (very excited on your behalf LST!)

Yes, Suerock, we have seen a property - it is the only one we have seen so far, admittedly, so we are going to see more this weekend. However, others in our price range are either already done up, a hell of a lot smaller, on a busy road (no good with two cats) or a quieter road but with NO outside space etc etc. The one we have our eye on needs loads of work, but has the potential to be gorgeous when it's done. We can afford to take two months out when we move so would put our stuff in storage and stay with my mum for two months (no more or we'd all drive one another insane) and do what we can, which would hopefully be quite a lot. I think potential buyers for this house have been put off by the amount of work which needs doing - it hasn't been touched since the 70's and then they made a crap job of it - so needs gutting and starting over.

Anyway, tell me about these cardigans?

and he was a private detective too for a while... am sure he is FULL of stories (but not sure how much I want to hear a lot of them!)

Just checking in very briefly as it is way past my bedtime.

Thanks for the review HP. I think I can probably safely give TCOYF as miss, as it sounds to be covering teh sort of stuff that I'm doing (in a pretty hot and miss sort of way) already myself.

I started temping 6 months ago (I use fertility friend to track my temps) having previously been the sort who was usually taken my surprised every month when my period turned up. I sometimes forget to take my temp, and my temps at the weekend are always later, but it gives an indicative guide.

I make a token effort with the knicker checking for CM, but my cervial position will ever remain a closed book. At the evil prompting og HP I made the mistake a while back of looking at My Beautiful Cervix, (google it if you dare) which convinced me I didn't want to be poking and prying in that sort of detail.

Even with all the tracking that I currently do, I can't pinpoint ovulation, so I'm not sure I'd want to rely on it as a conception avoidance mechanism.

In laws eh? Mine are ok, but a bit uninvolved. DH's Mum never calls, but expects DH to ring home every week and chastises him when he fails to ring (it a phone - you can dial out as well as pick up!).

LST I don't think all the monitoring in the world makes a blind bit of difference if you've got underlying fertility problems. You've given it loads of time and had no success so, I think it definately time to bring in the big guns. I realy hope the IVF works and The Cardigan will be yours.

Confused you have my sympathies over the excessive attention to detail. You just need to get it on teh market. Your DH can continue to tinker if he needs to, but as long as you get the for sale sign up, then things can start moving. Speaking as someone who owns a house 400m from a river that is a decorative disaster, I say ignore your MIL and go for the house you fancy. Just make sure you haggle.

Ooops, this is turning out longer than anticipated and I need to go to bed. Just wanted to mention that DH is going for his second sperm test tomorrow (he can hardly wait...) and we are both going to the docs on Tuesday, when they will hopefully have got my tests results back and can give us our referral to the fertility clinic.

Hope you all have a positive week.

DH nearly went out today to buy new a new duvet cover (I managed to put him off the idea by, er, laughing at him.) Admittedly, a new one won't go amiss but for gods sake! Potential buyers will not be put off by our choice of bedding will they! Thank god I just went ahead and booked the visit from the estate agents anyway as this could go on forever!

And breathe...

A new duvet cover? Does he secretly want to set up a B&B? I wish DH gave a shit about our decor!

Unless you have a really bad cover currently....like a Playboy bunny one...or purple silk a la Austin Powers...

HP be careful what you wish for! Our duvet cover at the moment is a plain cream one from M&S. He seems to think we're trying to pass an exam rather than sell the bloody house! He'll be bringing home scatter cushions next! Anyway, thankfully he didn't go in the end (ie didn't want to be subjected to endless ridicule!) and went out instead.

I have got back and tidied up and the house is looking lovely (despite not having new bedding and even though one of the tiles under the bath is cracked.) They are due any minute so am looking forward to hearing what they say, but I think, due to the other houses nearby which are similar going so quickly we ought to be okay with this one...

Ohmygoodness! Our house has been valued at £25k MORE than we bargained for - hooooorah!

Delighted! The agent showed me lots of others in the area and showed ours is a bit cheaper as it's a bit smaller but is also more likely to sell as it is that bit cheaper - as well as being a lovely house!

So chuffed! Having an open house viewing day a week on Saturday and he thinks he will sell pretty quickly. Lots of viewings out the way on the one day sounds better than spreading them out.

Did any of you watch One Born Every Minute last night? I wanted to thump the man with the big ears and felt a lump im my throat when their baby was born as he didn't look okay - that is probably as we don't generally see them like that, they are usually a lot more cleaned up and with it

That's great news, hurrah! DH must be chuffed as well

Does that mean you will be looking at a bigger house, or is it more money in the pot for smaller mortgage/renovations/baby fund (tee her)?

Haven't watched this weeks program yet. DH is away this weekend so will have a catch up. Not massively impressed with the men they have shown so far. Poor girl married to that tossed Steve has my every sympathy. And the others have been a bit damp. Although I do love Fabio and Joy-less. Bless her and all of her pillows. The 20 year old Sam (?) really shocked me, apparently according to the thread on here that was critisising her, you can have something called a back-to-back labour, which is like having your guts ripped out from the first contraction.

Colour, anyone ?

Ok, the iPod has spell checked me...should be

Tee hee and tosser

Colour? Colourless. Not really thinking about babies right now, though did have it brought forcibly to mind when trying to find my way out of a hospital this afternoon - only to end up in the antenatal suite by mistake.... Must be some sort of homing instinct, like pigeons. Or something.

Anyway, will be back and taking sense again (maybe) next week.

[ hello all ] just a quick one to say hi and that i am still alive! have been travelling with work lots, and more planned this month so will probably be out of circulation for a bit.
take care.. i can see i have lots to read through and catch up on!!

Hi all,

Yay, confused!! That's great news. Down to all your hard work thus far, no doubt. How exciting - hope that opens up some further possibilities for the new place. Or, as HP says, just allows a buffer for fun things (or future plans.... [meaningful look]). Like HP, I wish DH would be a bit more houseproud, and be motivated to find a solution to the muddy-bike-in-hall problem, for instance, but he has sorted out our boiler problems recently (traditional division of roles, us?!), which is a godsend.

I am experiencing a challenge to my hardened scepticism about any sort of alternative medicine - had acupuncture on Monday (to prepare for forthcoming treatment), and for the next few days and nights was calmer and slept better than I have for months. This could have been because I had a bit of a break last week, or simply a placebo effect, but it really was quite uncanny and quite unexpected. I like the woman who does it, and she doesn't charge you for the first few sessions (after which you could do a runner without paying as nothing is written down so I thought that was quite confident on her part that you'd get something out of her treatment). I imagine the scientists among you might be a bit dubious though - any thoughts, anyone?

(I also - and this is where it does sound a little crazy - have two tiny seeds under plasters stuck to 'acupressure points' on my ear (and looking rather horrible, I fear, though seeds and plasters v. small). I'm supposed to press them three times a day. )

Hope you're ok, Suerock - you sound a bit preoccupied and stressed (unsurprisingly). And hello again, Seagreen! It's been a while. Hope all's good - can't work out if I'm envious or not that you're travelling with work. Sounds at least semi-fun?

Hope you all have a great weekend. DH is off to Seattle for work (am quite envious of that one...) on Saturday, so it's going to be a quiet one, but actually quite looking forward to having the house to myself for a bit (is that terrible?!).

Is anyone around? Am home alone for the weekend.

Me too, HP (though you probably left ages ago). DH is on a plane to the West coast of America. What are you up to? I'm sadly thinking tomorrow is going to have to be devoted to dealing with the fairly horrendous state of the house (in the knowledge that it will stay at least a little bit tidy for the week DH is away, at least, and so there's some incentive to sort it). Is anyone else a bit of a sloven on the quiet? (I suspect it may be just me...)

Am wishing we'd recorded One Born Every Minute (is it on IPlayer?) as I'm quite intrigued by all the comments. The only time we're in front of the tv these days we're committed (almost grimly!) to getting through more episodes of the West Wing, as it's taken us literally years to get through four series and there are still three in the box set to go! (Am enjoying it really.) Still, am wondering whether seeing stuff about childbirth is a good idea at the moment.

For no reason I thought I should share with you all an exchange I had with DH the other day: he saw me on Mumsnet (don't worry, he has no interest in reading the thread) and said 'Oh, are you talking to the mums again?' I had to point out that you weren't mums, and that was the point... I don't think he quite got that, but I don't think he's sufficiently interested (in the nicest possible way) to want to learn more, perhaps just as well!

Anyway, enough pointless rambling from me for one evening...

No, I'm still here. Watching 'The Break Up' on ITV and thinking I should go to bed.

One Born Every Minute is on 4 On Demand, I think. I was on there earlier seeing if Embarassing Bodies is on there. Now that is graphic. The weak of stomach should avoid at all costs!

'Talking to the mums' is sweet, and kind of the exact opposite to what we are!! I really, really hate the thought of DH ever having a mooch in these parts and finding us.

I am much more tidy than DH. His clean-up threshold is about three days after mine. I'm having a clean tomorrow, it's crap weather and I'm a bit bored so may as well do out a cupboard!

I have no idea when DH's clean up threshold is... always assumed he didn't have one! It's longer than three days though, I know that for a fact!