To TTC or not to TTC, that is one of the many questions...

[YorkshireTeaDrinker]

Ok fellow ditherers, as we have filled up one thread (and still not made too many firm decisions) here's another one for us to continue to procrastinate and worry on.

Here's to more monitoring of relative green and redness, mutual support and occassional chivving, discussion of everything baby or not baby related, and perhaps even our first BFP...?

[puts hand up] -in the south east

Afternoon!

My friend and her son are watching a DVD so am secretly MNing! (Friend too hungover to do anything other than watch DVD's at the moment and I have to drag her out later as we have a house viewing at 3.)

I think YTD and LQ have hit the nail on the head. This thread, for me, is about friendship more than anything else. I too want to know how things go with everyone, and not because I am nosey but because I give a shit! Also, it has been great being able to post whatever is winding me up / making me happy / whatever on here and being lucky enough to hear your often wise / funny or whatever is appropriate. Also, we have been regularly 'talking' to one another on an almost daily basis now for close on 6 months which a long time in virtual years, and I am very glad we started.

Will stop now before I get soppy!

As for where I am based, I am currently in Bristol but hoping to move to Hebden Bridge (West Yorkshire) as soon as we sell this house.

The book is coming along slowly, thanks. A bit too slowly really but it's hard to get in the right frame of mind a lot. Also, a lot of the stuff in it is based on what's happened to me, namely the main character spilts with her boyfriend at the start and that is based on me and S. For obvious reasons, it's tricky writing about it at the moment! I also think that discovering Mumsnet hasn't helped progress! Saying all that, it is steady progress of sorts and I'll get there eventually.

All going okay with my friend and, more specifically, her son at the moment - he has been playing with my dog non stop and she is now utterly exhausted and asleep on my feet under the kitchen table, which is amazing considering she hasn't even been out.

Going to go now as don't want friend to come in and see the screen, esp as she might recognise it! (Though she doesn't go on it herself as I asked her.)

Bye for now!

umm. confused

what i had never mentioned here- i had begun writing a ..book (for lack of better word, since it didn;t progress beyond 30 pages) which starts with the same premise i.e. the female protagonist breaking up with her boyfriend(first page, as a matter of fact). wasn't really based on me except very loosely. am sure apart from that everything is completely different though!
it hasn't been progressing at all because i've lost the manuscript a few weeks ago.

o-kay. freaked out, a bit, right now- not in a bad way at the moment not sure it will ever get done tbh! i am sure you are far more disciplined than i am. so good luck!!! here's hoping you're the next breakthrough author and one day you pop up on this thread and say 'hey, guess what, XYZ is having a book signing at ...- that's me!'

• sorry confused if that came across as a i'm-trying-to-trump-your-post, post.

because that's not it at all- the coincidence really struck me.

Hi, my first post ever on this site

Myself and partner have decided to start trying for a baby, in June. Am 31 (still feel 24 though!) and although nervous, feel i must get on with this before everything dries up down there, plus although i dont have an obvious ticking clock (and no broodiness when i see babies)i think that i'd like to have a baby and that i have a little something to offer it (if indeed we are luck enough to conceive. So i'm taking my folic acid and will wait til june to try
Not sure what else i can do at this stage, but wait and hope we dont have any complications (although i am convinced that we wont be able to have kids as you read all these stories about nice people that can't have children...but i'm trying to stay a bit optimistic)

hello RubyRubes and welcome!!

Hi Ruby,

I'm also newish here, and going to start TTC in July, am sure you will be fine and everything will go to plan, that's what we are hoping for anyway :D

Seagreen the coincidences between you and I are not suprising me any more!

Are you sure you don't actually have a border collie and live in Bristol too?

Can't write more at the moment, will tomorrow or day after at the latest

Hi All.

I popped in to see what was happening, and saw all the discussion following my post. Sorry, perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned it.

When I first wandered in to MN I'm not sure what I was looking for. Information, probably, initially. I saw the 'Waiting to TTC' thread and although the posters seemed nice, I just couldn't relate to it. They were everything I wasn't - counting down to TTC, excited, determined, happy, most of them were sure. Hence my original thread and the undercurrent of 'what is wrooooonnng with meeeee??'.

I was so pleased when Confused kicked off the 'TTCornottoTTC" thread, hurrah, a kindred spirit in indecision and worry and occasional green-ness. And I felt the two threads served different purposes, as no-one would be offended by the occasional anti-baby sentiment (Birth Trauma website, anyone?) on here, whereas that would go down like a lead balloon on the babydust threads.

Believe it or not, that was actually nine months (ironically) ago, not six, since C and I started chatting (I checked!). And in that time, we have formed a group and I feel very close in an internet way to many of you , and I'm beyond grateful for all the support, discussions and time we have spent with eachother, as a small group. A very small group, in fact, compared to most other threads.

Maybe Amanda is right, it was inevitable that some people would move on and some wouldn't. Maybe I'm just sad that it isn't me excitedly twanging my ovaries. But I think this has happened on other threads as well - for example the BESHies found that when they started to get pregnant, it was better to set up a pregnant BESH thread rather than upset struggling BESHies. So its not just us.

Im not sure when the solution is. I still maintain that its a bit harder posting less-than-green thoughts given the current energy, and LST has picked up on this as well. Perhaps if its all out in the open, and everyone knows and agrees to a set of general guidelines, that will sort it out? Just to stop some of us worrying that we may offend with our views, as this (hopefully) remains the Ditherers thread, not a Waiting to TTC thread? Like YTD says, we are not here biding our time to conception, as there is a real possibility that some of us on this thread may decide not to have a baby at all.

I'll stop wittering on now. I hope you are all having a fun easter and don't feel too sick after lots of chocolate.

PS. CD27. 14DPO. Temp still high. And have strong pills from the doc to hopefully help with the mystery pain.

Happy easter, all!
took a long walk today and had an ice cream too
So - people- what do we do- should we form a general splinter thread then, and leave this as the Ditherers thread? and what should we call the splinter thread?
tempted to start a splinter thread called "Splinter thread from Confuseddoiordonti's thread".
Views please?
because (a) i definitely don't want to upset HP or anyone else with my posts, which from time to time are more green than red (b) am sure no one else here wants to either (c) i definitely dont want to miss being able to post all sorts of random stuff to all you guys, and want YTD and LQ to have a thread which is their comfort zone!

confused - would not be strange at this rate if i did, but i assure you, i don't

SeaGreen, I think you have misunderstood. Im not getting upset with any green posts, or indeed any random posts - why would I be? Part of the reason I am on MN is that I have moments/days of wanting a baby. I hoped I had made that clear in my previous posts.

I am concerned that if people have always been or are now fully green, they will then find the discussions about reasons not to have a baby, which we have had, (as well as reasons to have a baby) upsetting. I have been yelled at for trying to talk about my concerns on other threads by very angry women who want a baby more than anything. Also, some of the reasons not to have a baby are personal and graphic, such as physical stuff etc.

Splinter thread implies conflict, where I hope there is none. To be honest, are we really a big enough group to need two threads?

Look, this is all getting a bit out of hand. As far as I am concerned, the subject can be closed if it is only myself (and possibly LST, although I wouldnt dream of speaking for her) with these concerns.

I will really miss you all but I think a break is now def in order. Who knows, I may get knocked up accidently in the coming months, as my doctor just suggested was likely to happen, although my current slight PMT suggests it isnt this month . xx

ok- whichever way this goes- i can see HP you've had some horrible experiences where busybodies have leapt on you for speaking your mind - just want to say, from my side, whether you're pregnant and i'm not, or i'm pregnant and you're not, i won't be yelling at you for expressing either anti-baby or pro-baby sentiments!
and if you want to take a break from the thread, i respect that.
take care till you post again.
xx

so drunk!! feeling v. emotional.
thanks all of you. it's great to have a non-judgemental forum where one can share one's very deepest thoughts.
also, it's great to be able to down bacardis without thinking twice because one isn't expecting! don't get me wrong. i am at a place where i see a pram with a baby and i am drawn to it though i try not to stare. really, REALLY green. but there are some benefits to not TTCing and not being preggers.
ok.. will now shut up and stem this drunken outpouring before talk sh*t.
am not an alcoholic. painfully aware this is my second post when high. just that being drunk gets me all sentimental and i am inevitably on my computer and want to post something. which ends up being something like this.
they did joke in college that it was enough to get to me to sniff the bottle and that they could then drink the rest
xx

oh and how is that for lust killer- DH and i on couch- things getting hot and heavy- and the dog comes and starts begging for a treat!! he groans!

HP, I echo Seagreen sentiments. I really really won't take any offence at all if you express the most violently red of redest sentiments. Like I said before, just cos I'm upduffed it doesn't mean that I expect that will be the outcome for us all. the content of this thread is that we are all at various stages of exploring whether kids would be a good thing for us or not. Obviously, I'm now at quite a different stage to some of us, and that makes me pretty damn green and, at times, rather envangelical about it. But I know that what is right for me right now, is not neccessarily right for others. And this recent discussion has helped to remind me of that.

Even though I am obviously very green, and am now actually going to have a baby (hopefully), many of things that made me worry about whether it was the right thing to do are still pertinent and real. It's just that if, for example, there's another outbreak of collective horror about the traumatic birth threads, my interest in the subject will have an added piquancy!

If you want a break from all the TTC or not related introspection, then a MN embargo is probably the best thing for you. But please be reassured, there is very little you could say here (unless you underwent a sudden personality transplant) that would cause offense. Because we know that you wouldn't intend to give offense. Do take care of yourself and please do drop back in when you feel like it and let us know how you're doing.

BTW - I don't think we need to split threads. Just be aware that we are coming at the issue from diferent angles now, more so now than when we first started dithering.

ok got to get off mn when drunk. mortifying!

YTD, you are an angel.

See you all soon. X

hear, hear, YTD!

I really hope we do HP!

Blimey! Millions of posts!

I must have the skin of a rhino and the shortsightedness of a mole as I never got any of this before HP's post about 'taking a break' (so, are we now 'on a break?'?!) Personally, I think we can see how things stay can't we? Like someone has already said, just because someone may be green it doesn't meant that everyone should be. Having a child is a very personal thing and everyone has different feelings and situations. I can come up with loads of reasons not to have one but only one or two reasons to have one, and even those are a bit wishy washy. (Current reasons to have one are that I might regret not doing and, er, that's it really - I might be good at it? It makes Christmas a bit more interesting? It's an excuse to buy cute things? Or not buy cute things as I'm now too broke after all my cash has gone on child care... )

Seagreen I'm glad it's not me who's had a boozy Easter! I too wanted to drunkenly ramble about what a godsend this thread has been at times but as I had people here I had to keep it short! Probably a blessing really!

HP it's easy for me to say, I realise, but I am really suprised that you have had people having a go as you are in two minds and they can't have one, or are having problems. I guess it is a subject that must get people very fired up indeed, especially if you are desperate for them and it's not happening and it's something you've always wanted etc etc (cannot relate to that, as we all know.) There are lots of reasons not to and, even if you are consumed with longing, it doesn't make these reasons invalid. The world, the overpopulated world, will not die out of everyone doesn't have at least one of two offspring will it?

I have been, lightheartedly,called 'selfish' for not having any children which winds me up big time. Why the fucking hell is it selfish, for gods sake? Yes, it means that I could go through life pleasing mainly myself, but it also means I am not using up resources, adding to landfill with thousands of nappies etc, taking up nursery places, blah blah blah all of which can hardly be viewed as 'selfish' can they?

Polly Vernon is often rabbiting on about how she doesn't want children in the Observer, here, and while I am not remotely that vehement about not wanting them, I can relate to quite a bit of it.

The thing is, often I get vivid green flashes wanting the opposite of all the things I have always said I have wanted (freedom, travelling, spontaneity, a house not full of plastic tat, ability to lay in bed all day if I want to - actually, ignore that last one as it's not possible now with the dog!) which is why, to cut a very short story long, I am here in the first place!

Hi all,

Good to hear from you, hp, but quite understand if a break is called for - hope we see you again in due course.

I think on balance the splinter thread seems to be a bad idea - my only thought was to keep us together, in a sense (by providing an outlet for redness), rather than splitting us - perish the thought. This thread is fab. (Even if I've been too busy entertaining two lots of visitors to come onto it over Easter until now.) And lovely to hear a word of reassurance from YTD. I'll try not to see this as a challenge to find the very worst things to share! (Only kidding.)

Am feeling rather mixed about the whole business at the moment (despite being already on a possible baby train...). For most of the weekend had friends with a young baby (four months) visiting. He's very cute and very co-operative but I didn't feel any massive maternal urges, or find him all that fascinating - though he is a bit young to be so yet so no reflection on him. His parents, who are very dear friends, are absolutely besotted, and fasciated by his every gurgle, which is lovely to see (they've waited a very long time for this) - but also still a bit mystifying from the outside. I know there's no earthly reason why I should feel maternal towards someone else's child (might have been a bit worrying if I had) but I still thought there may have been a twinge of excitement or longing, especially as I'm supposed to be mentally preparing myself for this becoming a reality, or at least the possibility that this might happen. Also two little boys of two and four in the next wave of visitors - cute too but definitely very very hard work. On a more positive note with them, they are getting more manageable, and my DH was quite interested in them, albeit in short bursts, so that was encouraging given his usual child-phobic stance (which isn't softening at all despite me having started on the IVF path).

Anyway, apologies for long post but slightly bemused/disquieted by my lack of engagement with real life babies and children (I mean I did engage fully with them all, obviously - and not just so our friends didn't disown us - but felt emotionally rather detached...). Perhaps it's a defence mechanism, but if so it's hiding its true colours very well.

(Mind you, I was cooking for much of the weekend (enjoyably, for the most part) so perhaps that was part of it!)

I feel very much in tune with confused's post, in fact. This has been close to how I feel for a while in some ways. So why am I doing IVF?? (I know this is becoming a stuck record, this cycle of thinking from me - sorry.) I do also have the odd flash of green. I am fascinated by kids in theory (absolutely love watching any tv programme about them, even the tediously-similar-in-format supernanny type ones), and I think I'll be ok at it - as all non-parents no doubt do. I also think I may/will regret it if I dn't, and this is perhaps a stronger feeling than it is for confused (probably because I'm older ). But not sure what evidence I have for this suspicion (I suppose the point is I can't get any at this stage!) or where it comes from.

Anyway, certainly haven't had any panics or any real thoughts that I should stop taking the drugs and get off this particular train, so hoping that means something at least. I must be the most half-hearted IVF-er in the world though.

BTW, like the way that confused has her own sign !

So I'm in the same old place! And think people are right that a splinter thread wouldn't be a good plan - sounds like hp needs a more drastic break than that, and the rest of us are happy to stay put and nourish our lovely community with whatever we are thinking/doing/pondering. And don't ever regret posting when you are tiddly, Seagreen - those are always lovely posts! (I sent my mum some flowers via the internet for mother's day, and as I typed in the message when I was a bit tipsy, it was quite soppy heartfelt about how inspirational she was, which could have been awful, but she was actually really touched and apparently 'moved to tears' so I was glad in the end!)

Wow, I'm obviously lacking an ear to bend now the guests have gone - will leave you in peace! xxx

PS. Many welcomes to our new members (and hi again Amanda).

Should just add, having read through my post (which I posted by accident without previewing) that I sounded rather neutral about hp taking a break etc. whereas what I really meant to say/ felt was 'pleeeease come back soon, we'll miss you massively - but just not before you're ready, obviously'.

I think we need to wait and see what it's like when YTD and / or LQ have their babies and then hear about it 'from the other side', as it were. From the outside, the lack of sleep, lack of spontaneity, lots of chaos and so on doesn't sound that appealing (funny that!) but maybe it really is all that incredible that it's worth it. Worth it ten times over.

A friend of mine had a little boy in January and she is taken aback by how besotted she is and how lovely she's finding it, and I'll listen to her as she's not earth mothery in the least!

We had my friend and her son here for Easter and he was certainly better than last time but it didn't fill me with an urge to have one of my own. Far from it. Same goes for DH too. However, if I found out I couldn't or DH was adamant he didn't want to, I think I'd obsess about nothing else.

How's the injecting going, LST? Noticed any changes?

Yes it will be fascinating to hear YTD's and lq's perspectives! Might even be too late for me by then... Hope they're both feeling ok, BTW. How was Easter pregnant, folks? More or less inclined to eat lots of chocolate? I've been a complete pig this weekend!

Glad the son wasn't so bad this time, confused. There aren't that many of my friends' kids that make me want one, though some are very nice - so they probably have to be your own! It's funny about DHs, isn't it? My sadness that mine isn't keener is almost my strongest sign to myself that I am keen, or at least more keen than not.

Am feeling ok, although I felt very stressed and irritable and anxious on Saturday night - sort of much-worse-than-usual PMT feeling - which I think might have been the drugs kicking in. Wasn't too bad yesterday though so who knows. Today I just feel utterly done in, but I am quite sleep deprived so that might be why. Also started my 'bleed', same day as my AF would have started normally, today so it's almost hard to feel as though anything untoward is happening. DH reckons I might be a bit snappier than usual though so maybe I'm just not noticing! May start the stimulating drugs in 5 or so days, if messageboards etc. are anything to go by, which is quite exciting! Am very relieved/lucky to have got away without anything too bad so far.

I quite like a lot of my friends children but only in VERY SMALL DOSES. Very small! Then, I'm ashamed to say, they get on my nerves and get in the way!

However, people I know with kids also say that they don't really like other people's so maybe that's not so unusual.

Have eaten too much crap and drunk too much this weekend and now feel horrible. Also, found a very old friend of mine on Facebook and been nosing through his pics - his, I presume, Swedish girlfriend is STUNNING - all long golden limbs and so on. This has not helped my self esteem!

Glad any side effects seem to be pretty mild. Hope they stay that way!