To TTC or not to TTC, that is the question... as Hamlet sort of said about something else entirely

[CHW]

Hi,
Had few glasses of wine and have spent large part of the evening on this site. I am in two minds about a baby - or really, at the age of 35 (but Type 1 diabetic which can complicate thingss) and really ought to make a decision about whether to have a family or not.
I worry about cost, the changes it will make to our lives and, well, if I am actually just happy as I am. Me and DH discussed going for it, so to speak, sometime after the start of Aug (as did the London Triathlon before then so couldn't before then) and decided we would once the triathlon was out the way. Now it is and we are both stalling. But it is playing on both our minds - in the do we, or don't we way.

My babyometer keeps going haywire - any tips or things for me to also consider which may help us make a decision. I am also wondering if we are simply analysing things too much but beeing diabetic makes things more complicated (ie they need to be planned, in an ideal world at least.) Any help or food for thoughts would be MASSIVELY appreciated!

Well, given that in the early days of NPP I was very uncommitted and therefore employing the 'headache' method of contraception (100% effective!) that bebefreakout is currently using, I think 'natural' family planning can have some merit.

Obviously I am clearly not dripping with fertility so I'm not a good test case, but given that there are actually only about 4 days a month when you can conceive, I think that withdrawal and / or headaches from days 13 - 17 could be effective.

I've never been a fan of wellies, its all the stopping and starting and general faffing about that irritates me.

Interesting point about whether we'd have anything to say to each other if we met in RL? I think we have the advantage here of being able to talk at a level we don't usually do in RL (at least not without the assistance of a couple of bottles of wine!) so we enjoy a level of frankness that is not always possible elsewhere. I think the wierdest thing would be working out how to address one another. Whilst my mental pictures have easily been replaced by the real ones, I'm not sure if I could ever refer to HP for instance as anything other than Honeypetal!

Oh, sorry to hear about the wobble, confused - hope you're feeling a bit better now (not that the cause is going to go away, but just the worst of the downs do come and go, at least hopefully they do). It really really sucks, the whole business. Very glad you have a dog (and doubtless a man before too long!) to hug, at least - it's a nice image!

Can't remember the time we had to worry about contraception - it's been so long without anything, which is weird in itself. After some of what you've all been saying, I half want to go on to the pill just to come off it and have the surge in libido! Not that mine's disastrous or anything - but could definitely be improved, especially after more concerted efforts to TTC over the last year... (Feel like I've already said this, but think I just thought it.) Never mind, am also trying to lose some weight (though a disastrous day involving Starbursts AND crisps today...) so will try to get back to the sexy-ish nightwear soon (when the house warms up, anyway!).

I think HP should pop along to deed pol and get her name changed to HoneyPetal myself! Not sure if I feel the same way about being called Confused though! I think you're right, YTD, we can be more frank on here than in RL (I never talk about sex so graphically in RL!) However, despite not even knowing anybody's name I do feel as if I have made friends (I hope that doesn't sound too weird!)

Yup, 'wellies' are bloody horrible and I also feel as if they make the whole debacle more clinical (or, at least, less spontaneous.) Due to being advised against other hormone type contraceptives I only really had the option of the coil and, as that didn't work, we don't use anything as the options we do have are crap. (Not used a diaphram but they look both weird and fiddly too, as well as not being terribly effective either.)

Thank you for the kind words re the wobble. I am okay now - it still comes in waves (I may be quite wobbly on Weds when I know he's having first chemo session) but it's not as dramatic as before. More like a background sadness (an acute one, but I don't have uncontrollable crying fits constantly now.) Guess that must be how these things work. And on that gloomy note, I'm going to have some dinner

I should change my name to HoneyPetal

When I chose my nom de plume I went for something no-one would expect me to use. But I have susequently given away enough details to not worry too much! I'm waiting for the day at work when one of the fertile, married, baby planning 23 year olds at work look at me questioningly and whisper 'HoneyPetal?'. Never mind.

There is money to be made developing a non-hormonal, instantly reversible, hidden, 100% reliable contraception. Knowing our luck, one will be developed..for men! Then we would have to trust that they either were or weren't using it, depending on the situation. I've been really happy with my pill, a bit too happy as I can't let it go! I'm also scared it's messed me up or hidden some problem or other. My first massive step will be coming off it. We have used condoms on the rare occasion that I miss a pill, I don't mind too much, DH has mentioned slightly reduced, urm, sensation.

Hope no-one is eating.....

Just noticed Confused may have just eaten. Apologies. And also for the use of 'at work' three times in as many sentences (the author types may have tutted and shaken your heads). I'm a bit tired.

DH reports similar lack of feeling when hosed and shod, hence lack of keeness. But contraceptive idleness is the catalyst for us starting to NPP anyway, as he can't be bothered to use condoms and I forgot to get more pills. And somehow we thought me getting pregant would be less hassle?

One advantage of our evident lack of fertility is that is does take away the whole contraception dilema. Even if it turns out that we are both equipped with all the relevent working component parts and manage to procreate in sufficient quantities, I don't think I'd ever go back on the pill again. I quite like the fact that my body is back to functioning as it should. And since I've been monitoring every gurgle, ooze and flutter in my abdomen, I've been a bit in awe of how our bodies gear up each month for the sole purpose of procreation. It would be even more impressive if it actually worked though!

Evening all, there is a definite comfort in confiding in 'strangers'so I don't know if I could talk to people in RL the way I can with peeps online - having said that at least one of you lives in the same city as me so please don't out me if you recognise me!

All my friends seem so sure about the children thing they would actually put me in the nuthouse.

YTD am on CD12 headache/no headache to bonk or not to bonk....Aaaaaahhhhh!

I have been NPP for approx 8 months now... am probably infertile and torturing myself for absolutely no reason.

HP go on change your name... isn't one of Jamie Oliver's kids called HoneyPetal?

Ah that would be Poppy Honey and Petal Blossom... so close

Thanks all for your lovely compliments! Will take the pix off now.
Confused - first up, can see you got thrown for a loop there!
Love the expression about the ?rampant fertility? ( lack thereof!), and due to the number of times we have done the same thing (pull out on time, and the rubber) (and nothing by way of being up the duff has happened!), suspect my fertility is not the most rampant either!!
The pill- ah. I don?t know why, I just don?t like it. I wouldn?t voluntarily go back to it. I thought I started gaining weight because of it (turns out it was just greed because the weight didn?t come off even after I stopped) But that?s neither here nor there. The coil or a diaphragm- I keep obsessing about the tampon string (sorry if TMI!) so I don?t think I could quite get around to having something fitted in me. Oddly enough, a huge personal objection I have to the concept of breast implants is this feeling that one might feel claustrophobic (I don?t know how odd that sounds!) at having a foreign object inside me. I suspect the same rules might apply (oddly I don?t think the same thing will apply to pregnancy).
Irons thanks for your post! But please, please tell me that there was a specific reason 30 was the watershed age for you?

Regarding meeting in RL-I suspect though that in RL we would soon get talking about the uninhibited deep stuff that we usually do! Might take a few drinks though

incidentally, has anyone ever tried a mooncup? saw one in boots some time ago- not really sure would want to try it out though.
sorry if that put you off your lunch!

Morning! I didn't check last night for more messages as DH is getting very curious about the amount of time I am spending glued to Mumsnet. I wouldn't want him to get more interested as, if he asked, I wouldn't want to divulge the details! I am now answering at work so have the screen on small, hence it may be a rather bitty response as I'll keep having to sneak upwards.

HoneyPetal I suspect that it wouldn't just be at work that you wouldn't be taken seriously. However, if you did change your first name I think it's only fitting your change your surname to something more suitable too.

Mooncups - No, not used one. I only know a tiny bit about them, but one of the things I do know is that lots of MNers use them. It was on a thread a while back called something like 'Mumsnet has taught me...' As I don't have heavy periods anyway it may be worth further investigation (but I'll save checking out the link till I get home!)

The Coil and tampon style string - I admit that did make me feel a bit ucky too. However, someone I know with a coil said it's not something you (or anyone else!) could ever find / feel. I think the thing I found most squeam inducing was that it was basically a T shaped bit of wire, and the T bit went in first!

I think I find the idea of NO contraception quite a turn on, in a weird way (and, by the way, I would NEVER say such things in real life!!) Not sure why, maybe as it suddenly makes it more, er, natural? Hmm, might have to think about why and try and word it better. Ha! And I am meant to be a writer!

SeaGreen Can I ask why you have so many links for US sites? I realise it's not hard to find them, but, as there's also so much choice here too for browsing I wondered how you also find yourself readings things on the New York Times.

BebeFreakOut A lot of my friends were sure about the baby thing too. In fact, only one changed her mind (after 18 years together they gave themselves 6 months and if it didn't happen they were getting dogs!) the rest just always knew. I think I am viewed as one of the one's who wouldn't want to, I am too into my animals and also the whole childbirth / pregnant thing makes me very squeamish (some serious design faults there, don't you think?!)

The comments about us not using anything have got me thinking, in more than a just passing way, about whether I really am not very fertile and, if this is the case, maybe it would be worth looking into. I guess there is also a higher risk of miscarriage as I have Type 1 diabetes (yes, TYPE ONE NOT THE FAT TYPE - I hate being confused with the obesity linked one! Esp as on insulin, people with Type 2 assume I am the same as them but with terrible control). Maybe this too should be taken into consideration. I am meant to, eventually, get an appt with the obstretician (the diabetic nurse referred me) so maybe ask them.

Right, from now on I'm HoneyPetal Sparklepants, hang the consequences.

Also, today is the last day Im having my piccies up on my profile, so I have uploaded a little image for those who were picturing me as scientifically attired in their imaginations. Hope that is more to your liking! It was taken today especially for you....

(the resolution isn't amazing, MN squishes my image size)

Better go, am at work. Will write more at home.

Dr. HoneyPetal Sparklepants

Dear Dr H Sparklepants (just say you're a non-famous child of Paula Yates and Bob Geldof)

Thank you for the oppertunity to see you as you really are - Boffinised! I think that may have been more how I imagined you due to the many references to labs, white coats and bloody cells.

Your new name has perked me up as bit as I was feeling somewhat fragile about my friend, S, who I had just spoken to. While the primary tumours have not been found, lots of other little one's have - his words were 'I'm littered with it.' He also sounded really down - I KNOW this is a ridiculous thing to say, of course he's fucking fed up etc etc but he was also quite quiet. Turns out he is knackered. The tremadol (sp? very strong painkiller, one down from morphine) is knocking him out and he had also spent the day cleaning all his sheets as a neighbourhood cat had come in and sprayed. I ended up saying stupid things like 'you alright? you sound fed up' and then cringing! However, I suppose it is better than speaking to him totally differently and even worse if I ended up sounding patronising as I was either skirting round the subject or coming up with trite shite such as 'I know someone who had the same cancer as you and they went on for 10 years' or similar.

Think I am writing this for myself more than you lot. If it's not too gloomy for you, I'd like some advice or pointers on these things. I don't want to act any different (but this may become easier said than done, I realise) and he'd know anyway but, I suppose, for those of you who've been in similar expericences what helped both and the person who had it?

I have sent his parents a card today saying I was thinking of them and things and I also sent S a package with some Bonjela and some fruity Glacier Mints. My mum's friend had cancer (well, she has it again now too, in her bones) and she said chemo makes you want sharp tasting things and not much of them. I couldn't track down sherbert lemons in a half hour lunch hour so he got them instead. Doing things like that makes me feel better (it's just for my benefit, I want to add!) and if anyone has any other ideas that would be great.

And if anyone would just rather talk 'dithering' then that's great too (really, it may take my mind off things.)

Shit - am trying to both diet and not drink and I now I want to have a pint! Shame I'll my spare cash has gone on Bonjela really!

I'm hovering over my keyboard starting sentances and deleting them, trying to write something that doesn't sound accidently patronising or lame. You are being such a good friend to 'S', it is so great that he is surrounded by people who care about him. Even though the battle is his to fight, how can he not get strength from all the support on offer?

I guess practical things may suggest themselves as the treatment goes on, but I think he will continue to be tired, so maybe 'comfort packs' like soft blankets, lovely bed socks, hot water bottles, slippers etc etc. And maybe books to pass the time. Or more lighthearted things like funny DVDs, old-style sweeties for energy, mags. Does he have a current partner? If not, maybe cooked meals frozen in his freezer for when he is to tired to cook? I'm not sure any of that is any good, sorry.

But really, if it was me, knowing that I can talk to my friends, or even that they will give me space when I need it would be what I appreciated.

HP-SP

Thanks HP. It is hard to know what to say, which is why I struggled to not say silly things when we were on the phone. He has put a pic of his PET scan up and he's right, he's riddled.

I think you may be right with the practical things, and I guess that's where I was coming from today. I like the idea of soft blankets (would be top to get cashmere, but unfortunately out of my price range!) and similar too. He doesn't have a girlfriend but he lives with 4 other people, all of whom are looking after him extremley well. I think his food needs will be well taken care of, so am going to pick brains for the more blanket type, I think. I know what he does need but also know he won't like it so I'm not going to get any - PJ's! He doesn't wear them and is highly unlikely to have some, but they'd be bloody handy soon I would imagine.

Talking must be a big help too, you're right. The amount of support he has is incredible and testament to the kind of person he is (I wrote that in his parents card).

Fuck. It's so hard. And so bloody cruel.

Change of subject perhaps...?

Just bought some burgundy cashmere socks - chunky, but not too chunky (he wouldn't do bedsocks) - which I'll send on with a note in a week or so, I also need to think of something funny-ish to write too. I think they'll be nice and comforting if you feel like shit - thanks HP SP for the idea!

Have been very good too and still not opened any wine! Am disproportionately proud of myself (oh dear...)

By all means, if you want to. But don't forget we are here any time.
Right, I believe the subjects being previously discussed were:

1. How uncomfortable baggies are and how most of us on this thread are actually employing a combination of self control, headaches and fate.

1. What a mooncup is and should we try it?

1. If one can feel the string on a coil. BTW, did you see the, er, thread (!) of the girl who just wanted to try and pull her coil out?? Eughhhh!

1. How our friends seem more sorted on the baby issue than we are.

Any more for any more?

Oops, we overlapped! Those socks sound lovely, I'm sure he will love them.

These are the socks S's socks

Think you've covered it all there, HP SP, thanks!

I have just had a look at the Mooncup link and may also have a nosey on MN after. Euw! Actually, I can see the idea is a good one but I guess I am so used to the tampon route that something like that doesn't seem as, erm, safe (or something.)

Who said anything about the thread on a coil? I didn't SEE it, she told me! I saw the one the doc was going to, ahem, put in me and it wasn't too long.

CHW We are on the same boat! I've just posted a new thread. seconds ago. I'm also in limbo and on Sunday I'm doing my last half marathon before decision day. TTC or NOT to TTC? Please read my thread we may be great support for each other?

Silly me.
This is all new to me I realise now that you posted that in August last year. I hope you made a decision and everything is going well.

Dr. HP Sparklepants you've given Confused all the fantastic ideas that one could think of! cashmere socks sounds fantastic Confused. i don't know if you're into crafts but something like a handknitted or crocheted scarf might go down a treat.

Regarding why many of the links i post are amercian , i haunt this site, amongst others ( this being the other one- and i get a lot of links from those. have found some very interesting blogs - let me share some of those with you guys-
how the weiszes built a family- check the archives for the complete list of posts. fascinating.
500 pieces of advice for this blogger's baby daughter (not yet born)
this fantastic blog from a guy who talks about building a family with his wife and her son (and their new baby daughter- charting it from the time she got pregnant). he's a great photographer and he did this series showing his wife week by week and i must say i found it very touching.
i could go on and on but i have no intention of swamping you with links that you may not even find interesting [says she after having done precisely that].
feels lovely to be able to sharethese- wouldnt want to become the tiresomely green member amongst my friends! but here i can post all of these without judgment.
yikes. my browser window hung just now and i thought i had lost everything i had typed but luckily i had put it on preview mode and when i clicked the restart previos window option it had saved everything- phew.

Hey, Triss, we're all still dithering so you are more than welcome to join! We go off subject now and again but the general gist stays the same. You'll find, as well all did, that you are certainly not alone!

Thanks SeaGreen, I'll have a good old browse of those now. Thanks for sharing them and don't worry about being tiresome. Even on the off chance we did find them dull nobody's forcing us to look!

I am into crafts but I can't knit - not sure what would be suitable out of the things I can make (a mobile? fimo figurine? painting of his cats?!) but I'll still give it more thought as you never know when inspiration will strike.

Maybe this is a bit girly, but perhaps you could 'craft' something that all his friends could contribute to, not sure what, but a 'rogues gallary' of photos of people holding signs of positive messages, or a patchwork cushion with everyone donating a square. Perhaps that's too girly for a bloke! I'll keep thinking.

Thanks for all the links, SeaGreen, man, I love a bit of research!!

The coil thread is called 'has anyone tried to remove their own coil to try to conceive' or something. The poor thing wants to TTC, has a coil, the doc is being crap about removing it and she wondered if she could give it a go herself!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Triss - I saw your thread, sounds like you have been through the mill. If you don't mind indecision and mind-changing, feel free to stick around!