To TTC or not to TTC, that is the question... as Hamlet sort of said about something else entirely

[CHW]

Hi,
Had few glasses of wine and have spent large part of the evening on this site. I am in two minds about a baby - or really, at the age of 35 (but Type 1 diabetic which can complicate thingss) and really ought to make a decision about whether to have a family or not.
I worry about cost, the changes it will make to our lives and, well, if I am actually just happy as I am. Me and DH discussed going for it, so to speak, sometime after the start of Aug (as did the London Triathlon before then so couldn't before then) and decided we would once the triathlon was out the way. Now it is and we are both stalling. But it is playing on both our minds - in the do we, or don't we way.

My babyometer keeps going haywire - any tips or things for me to also consider which may help us make a decision. I am also wondering if we are simply analysing things too much but beeing diabetic makes things more complicated (ie they need to be planned, in an ideal world at least.) Any help or food for thoughts would be MASSIVELY appreciated!

Confused- what's wrong with animals anyway? my dog is my most precious baby and will always be my first baby.

Many of us have substitute babies little pets. Confused is famous for her love of doggies and indeed dog-sits for a lovely beagle, which I may dog nap. Although Im more of a crazy cat person, having two.

It's nearly Christmas..... Whippeee!!

Morning all! Am now concerned about LST - where are you...??

Animals - no, nothing wrong with them at all, I agree! But then, I would do. I am dog sitting this weekend for the girl who has the baby which had a strange effect on me, in fact. Seagreen what kind of dog do you have? How old? Mine is a 2 year old Border Collie.

HP - BUYING BABY THINGS? Fuck me! (S'cuse my French so early in the morning.) I am shocked. Shocked in a good way, but shocked all the same. I feel as if I am starting to lag behind in the 'shopping for virtual baby' stakes.

Today I am very green, which is a hangover from last night where I was also very green. Me and DH ended up talking about baby related things and I ended up Googling things about childbirth for people who are Type 1 diabetics.
I didn't like what I found - it all seemed to focus around having drips in each hand (one of glucose and one of insulin) as well as lots of other medical procedures which really shouldn't be neccessary if you (as in the patient) know what you are doing. I am suspecting a lot of it may be due to hospital polices rather than the individual, but this doesn't make me feel any better.

These findings last night got me and DH talking about Doula's - he, understandably, hadn't the foggiest what a Doula was so I showed him the website and he seemed really interested. I am also keen on exploring the idea, as someone who know's exactly what is going on and can help you through it sounds great. DH liked the idea of someone helping the pair of us too, and said he did find the whole birth thing, esp with me being diabetic, very daunting. Me too, matey!

He seems really keen on everything, as am I (today at least) but then he also said 'just think, in a year's time we'll be in the perfect situation to do something about it.'

A YEAR?!

Bugger.

Whoaaahhhh! Reading back my post it may look like I am buying baby things eg clothes! To clarify, I have only, repeat only, bought the pregnancy book. Although, that is bad enough, I admit!!!

Cant type more, at work, will post later....

Confused I think it all rather depends on how you define "do something about it". I think it is perfectly possible to interpret it as in a year?s time you will be ready to produce and house a baby, which means that in 3 months time you could potentially start TTC.

It can take up to 2 years to conceive naturally, so remember to factor that in when forward planning. If you think you'll be ready for a baby in a year?s time, then you really should start trying well before that.

Sorry, I'm getting a bit soap-boxy about the whole 'it can take ages to conceive' thing. But I really don't think you should leave it until you want a baby immediately to start TTC, cos it doesn't always happen on cue. If I'd spent 15 months TTC and was in a state of perpetual greenness, then I think I'd have gone mad by now. As it is I've been dithering for months, so my panic is much more measured (honestly!)

Pregnancy book HP? You?re getting greener and greener. Any chance this batch of pills could be your last? I may be the front runner for first BPF here, given that I am actually trying in earnest now (unless LST gets there first ? is radio silence from LST indicative of offline IVF activity?) but I still think the narrative thrust of this thread is that HP should be first.

HP a pregnancy book is almost as bad!

LST I agree that HP would be the first but do hope, after everything, that it's actually you.

I agree that you don't know how long it will take. I have had various medical people implying that it could happen IMMEDIATELY but, really, I think one has to be realistic. Isn't it one in four couples have trouble? Or am I thinking of something else altogether? When you put it like that, ie in a year we could be ready to hatch one out, it does sound rather scary. I mean, three months?! Yikes.

Still think HP will beat me to it though!

Stats from NHS Choices website are as follows:

The length of time it takes to become pregnant (conceive) is different for everyone, but on average, for every 100 couples who have sex two to three times a week:

• around 30 will conceive within one month,
• around 60 will conceive within six months, and
• around 85 will conceive within one year.

The remaining couples take longer, and some may need medical help to conceive. A small number of couples may not be able to conceive at all if one, or both, of them is infertile.

So 15% of couples can take longer than a year, and I think that percentage rises as you get older, but I don't have stats to support that.

Think I've read the same info somewhere.

Hmm, wonder if I can convince DH that we should try and get cracking sooner rather than later (patience isn't one of my strong points)

Maybe not too soon (she says, changing her tune completely!) as there is always the possibility of a first time hit, so don't TTC when it is really inconvinient. But I think you are realistically on the way to being in a situation where you can support a child. Remember, you also have to add 9 months on to however long it takes you to conceive in the first place. Babies have a pretty long lead in time!!

I am off to the docs in 30 mins. Am strangely nervous about the prospect...

Confused - mine's a labrador..

OK, before this gets completely out of hand, has anyone here actually bought anything for her virtual baby?! I confess to a handful of pregnancy/birth/early years books picked up secondhand and kept out of the way of nosey, well, noses. And I've 15 or so cardigans/jumpers/hats that I've made. Judging by the leakiness of most babies, that'll be enough for, ooh, about a morning

HP I know everyone?s different, but coming off the Pill doesn?t necessarily mean teenage period unpredictability so don?t let that stop you! My cycle is annoyingly variable (+/- 5 days ish) but I can nearly always tell when my period?s about to arrive, with increased accuracy as I get nearer. And my cycle?s gone back just the way it always was within a couple of months when I?ve come off the Pill. Without wanting to sound like a complete earth-mother you?ll probably get to know your own rhythm pretty fast! (Especially if you end up obsessively monitoring every nuance of your cycle to identify (in)fertile times!

YTD Hope the appointment went well. Let us know.

HP I can echo Suerock's advice re post pill periods. Mine have been fairly predictable since coming off the pill and, whilst heavier than a pill bleed not (with a couple of notable exceptions) anything like the painful heavy periods I used to have as a teenager.

And you do recognise the signs, which rather ironically are similar to early pregnancy signs. Another of Mother Nature's evil tricks!

Drs appointment was quick and relatively painless. I just said that we had been TTC for 15 months (well, 14 1/2 actually, and the first few months we we're being exactly scientific about it) and thought it was probably time we starting looking in to possible problems. Dr asked me if I drank smoke or had an underlying medical condition and same for DH and then said we quilified for intervention and needed to make appointment for blood tests and semen analysis. Took about 5 minutes in total. I was expecting to have to produce my charts, to prove that we'd done everything at the right time, but there was no interegation at all. So mission accomplished - looks like we are now in the system.

Only minor problem was that I have to go for my blood test during my next period. Periods currently last about 4 days, and next one is due New Years Eve, meaning that my window of opportunity falls neatly over the bank holiday weekend when the drs is shut! So if AF doesn't arrive on schedule on the 31st, I may miss out this month.

It feels a bit wierd. I know I've been green as anything for the past couple of months and I pretty sure I do want a baby, but going to the docs makes it all official now. We really are TTC and the NHS is involved. Public money is now funding our conception efforts, so we'd better be serious about it!

YTD - that is exactly how I felt when we went to see the nurse at the hospital for the preconception 'chat'! It seems so much more official now, doesn't it? My fingers are crossed they can get to the bottom of things for you very quickly. I too would have expected the appointment to last a bit longer and, even though realistically I suppose this isn't the done thing, to somehow 'prove it'. Why do you have to have the blood test during your next period? I take it it must be something to do with your hormone levels?

Seagreen We nearly went for a lab, but got sidetracked and found ourselves at the rescue place looking at border collies instead. We got her when she was 10 weeks and she's been a handful and a hell of a learning curve but worth every moment (I can say that easily when she's lovely and sleepy and curled up at my feet - less so when she's bouncing off the walls or trying to herd up joggers.)

So, as for the shopping - so, I haven't bought anything. Not even late at night when pissed on Ebay! However, what I have bought is a book for DH by Marcus Berkmann called Fatherhood the Truth. I had to review it once for a magazine and, as far as these things go, it's a good 'un. It's currently still in the jiffy bag in a drawer in the kitchen (DH thinks it is one of his Christmas presents) The fact that it's a book for men about the whole debacle, but not too laddish or earnest is appealing. No little white vests though... yet

Just had a friend here dropping off her dog (collie / greyhound cross if you're interested!) and she had her 7 week old daughter with her. DH asked if she, the baby not my friend, had made me go all broody, and then said he had!

Hence, this is very much a green house this evening. Oh yes siree... Not that we would be doing anything about it as, like you say YTD knowing sod's law we'd strike it lucky right away (and the house sale would fall through etc etc.) However, I am now hoping to be in more of a position in, say, early spring**hmmm, bet by the time early spring comes I'll be back on the 'red' again!

I'm not exactly sure why they have to test during my period and I was a bit gormless and didn't ask. I have to have two appointments - one during my period (so cycle days 1 - 4) where they will do a swab and blood test. I think that is when they do the Chlamydia test, which is apparently compulsary. Then I have to have another blood test on day 22, which is the progesterone test - which checks to see if you are ovulating.

It all felt a bit rushed really. The GP took a very brief history, but didn't ask about miscarriage, so I had no opportunity to mention my suspected miscarriage in August. Also there was no physical exam or weighing, which I would have expected. I guess I should be pleased that we are straight on to the first set of diagnostic tests without having to prove ourselves in any way, but I'm feeling a bit like we've been rushed through to level 2 without really completing level l.

However, we are now in the system, and next time I'll ask more questions. I guess I'm just not used to being a patient.

Just been and had a look at the Amazon reviews for Fatherhood the Truth. I think I might get it for DH - capitalise on his current enthusiasm. The other upside of involving the dr is that DH is now a whole lot more interested in the process.

I am confident that you will remain green in the spring Confused. It's the ideal time to start TTC - when the sap is rising and nature starts getting frisky. Couldn't time it better really.

Too tired to respond now but will tomorrow!

Night!

Have not got any clothes etc.. but DO have two books this is one- really like this (read cover to cover in the interest of scientific enquiry)

• and done a lot of random lists of virtual stuff for virtual sproglet after reading reviews and lists of what one needs. Confused - thanks for sharing the breed- am always interested!

Confused, YTD* -this is the other one - I liked this one too. It says Blokes Guide but I don't think it patronises men or trivialises issues. don't ask me why i read this as well but it was refreshing to see it through a man's eyes.

Thats good news about the docs, YTD. You have every right to be put forward for investigations, without having to provide evidence (I'm the same though, I would have taken along my plotted graphs, along with standard deviations and a figure legend ). And once the results start coming in you can begin to figure it all out. I can see why it has thrown you a bit, formalising the situation is counter-intuitive to a Ditherer, even a green one! But all my fingers and toes are crossed for you to get some answers, and good luck with the arrival of the next period, hopefully M.Nature will throw you a bone so you can make your blood test.

(And even though I admit it would be a hilarious and bizarre twist of fate if I managed the worlds least likely BFP, Im rooting for all of you to be the trail-blazers and inspire me to chuck my pills in the bin).

Thanks all for the advice about non-pill real periods. In a way Im fascinated to see what all this business is about. Currently I know exactly when it is due (the Tuesday in my pill free week, 9am +/- 1 hour, FYI) so it would be really weird not to have my much beloved vice like grip of control. Hey, I know, I have issues!!

Oh, and I forgot, I also bought this American book called 'Do I really want to be a Mom'. Seriously. And I was gutted as I wanted to fill in 20 questions and then it would tell me 'yes you do' or 'no you dont'. Obviously it didnt. There were many real life stories though, and one stuck in my head. A woman started TTC age 30, didnt conceive, and at 35 her desire to have a baby went away. Gone. Now, if I could be sure that would happen to me, that there would be no regrets about not having any, I think I would decide not to go for it. The worry about not having any and then being devestated when it was too late is partly why Im exploring the options at the mo.

Oh no HP i find that story very scary! Started TTC at 30 and never made it!

Er... HP I am not sure if this American book is something you ought to follow to the letter. While I may be a bad influence, I think you actually do (on Mumsnet for a start, and buying books etc) but need to get the go ahead from elsewhere - both financially and emotionally from your DH.

As for pill free periods, I thought mine would be horrendous too as I was on the pill since I had learner boobs but they were actually just as predictable as before. Obviously, this may not be the case for everyone but it's surely not unheard of either, is it?

However, nobody listen to me as tonight, Matthew, I am evangelically GREEN!

It wasn't too bad, there was a balanced presentation of pro- and con-stories, but yes, I did want it to Tell Me What To Do. I think I use up all my decision making ability in the lab every day! Anyway, it's available on amazon, if anyone is interested, apparently alongside many other books on the 'motherhood is crap' subject.

I couldn't be more 50/50 if I tried.

So, tell me more about this overwhelming green, Confused. Have you been looking at that baby again? Hmmm? Have you?

PS Also FYI, DH pointed out a cute baby on town today. Mad.

PPS I still have Semi-learner boobs. A tick for the pro-pregnancy option, for me then. I hear they get massive.

There was a beautiful baby in the coffee shop we went in today, I know this as DH pointed him out.

This also lead to the discussion that me and DH are also still 50/50 on the idea.

How big are semi-learner boobs? I ask as mine are only 34.b and I quite like them as they are... Saying that, I am getting that generous around the middle that it might be better to actually be pregnant as then I can stop holding it in!

Tickled by your suggestion "that it might be better to actually be pregnant as then I can stop holding it in" Confused, as that's one of the big ticks on my pro-pregnancy list!

Promising signs from your DH HP, pointing out babies and acknowledging cuteness. Is this evidence of mutual greenness in the HoneyPetal household? I think the tentative green shoots from your DH is probably one of the most exciting developments. I really think this batch of pills could be your last.

However, I am also evangelically green at the moment, so I obviously going to side with Confused on this one.

Interesting story about TTC at 30 and giving up at 35. I still think that if we find out we have no chance at all, I'd be ok with that. But I'd want to make sure I'd explored every possible option before I was prepared to accept that.

I suppose now I am in the TTC system I'd better be a permanent green from now on. Not a problem at the moment, as I am full of the urge to be pregnant (and not just look it! No semi-learner boobs here, I'm afraid, mine are fairly ample graduates!). We've still go a load of decorating to do, and its probably going to be another year before we're are finacially stable (although we're not on the breadline, so we'll manage) but I don't really care anymore, I just want to be a Mum.

Confused, YTD - not having to hold it in- isn't that one of the nicest things? (I assume)
Could get away with ANYTHING. Theoretically at least. I mean, one sees all these women with the same figure+ bump and they look really good. however did see a friend literally explode in all directions. not holding her stomach in was probably not what she was thinking about, given that EVERYTHING had literally expanded.
as former semi-learner, graduated recently to more magnificence (not intended in a positive sense at all!) some time ago i have a horror of the total expansion (as opposed to only bump expansion).
Talking of beautiful babies, is it a sign on the red-to-green-o-meter that one is still reasonably in between, if you DON'T think every kid is beautiful? there are some people who find all babies beautiful, and whilst i acknowledge that they are all miracles etc etc i don't find all of them cute!
HP - i can see why the control would be something one would miss.

I think that, surely, not ALL babies can look beautiful to you, no matter how broody...? I don't think so anyway.

I think I'd be a rapid expander too, in all directions. A friend of mine had one 6 weeks ago and is now back in her size 6 (yes, SIX) jeans. (She is a gymnast so small and bendy.) I suspect I might as well just chuck out my size 12's now as I find it hard to shrink at the best of times.