To TTC or not to TTC, that is the question... as Hamlet sort of said about something else entirely

[CHW]

Hi,
Had few glasses of wine and have spent large part of the evening on this site. I am in two minds about a baby - or really, at the age of 35 (but Type 1 diabetic which can complicate thingss) and really ought to make a decision about whether to have a family or not.
I worry about cost, the changes it will make to our lives and, well, if I am actually just happy as I am. Me and DH discussed going for it, so to speak, sometime after the start of Aug (as did the London Triathlon before then so couldn't before then) and decided we would once the triathlon was out the way. Now it is and we are both stalling. But it is playing on both our minds - in the do we, or don't we way.

My babyometer keeps going haywire - any tips or things for me to also consider which may help us make a decision. I am also wondering if we are simply analysing things too much but beeing diabetic makes things more complicated (ie they need to be planned, in an ideal world at least.) Any help or food for thoughts would be MASSIVELY appreciated!

I was so angry about the voucher-abandonment plan that I have signed the petition on the Downing Street website. Stick that one, Gordon. After all my research, I found out that the tax relief you get comes to about £70 per person per month, so if myself and DH claimed it, we would knock £140 off the £800 a month nursery bill. Which brought it into being covered by our salaries (just). Without the scheme we would pay out more than we both earn.

(calming breath)

In the spirit of the New Plan (which is that you ladies tell me what to do) I did indeed bring up the pill situation with DH...

Me: What if I came off the pill in the New Year, not to TTC, but to see what my cycles are like and how we both feel? We would have to find another method of contraception.
DH: No probs. Whatever you want is fine by me.
Me: Ok then.

So now of course I have gone instantly red, and cant imagine anything worse than being utterly skint, totally tired and feeling drab.

How is everyone else doing? Tell me your DIY exploits, I am vicariously decorating your houses. Any TTC/baby-news?

Evening all,

Exciting news on the pill front HP, a move in the right direction I think. See how decisive we ditherers can be when it comes to making other people's decisions!! I have also signed the petition. Hopefully Gordon will see sense (or fear electoral disaster) and this will be nothing more than a slight plot twist.

Much rejoicing in our house today. I had my first shower at home for over a year. DH fixed the shower screen in place last night and this morning we were good to go. I spent so long in there I was nearly late for work. I think I may have a ceremonial throwing out of the little plastic cup I've been using to rinse my hair in the bath with since last September. We still have no floor, and two walls without tiles, but I don't really care about that, the bathroom is now fully operational and I am happy .

I am hoping this will have a positive effect on our TTC. We are moving into what should be the productively amorous phase of my cycle next week and the fact that DH has finally got the bathroom functioning makes me more inclined to do the deed.

Having said that, I?m not massively green at the moment. We?ve still loads to do in the house. I am planning to take out a loan to do the kitchen (our kitchen is a disaster area beyond our DIY capabilities, needs lots of intervention by a variety of tradesmen) but I don?t want to do that until the t loans we currently have are paid off (next March). So I don?t actually want to conceive until next spring really. But given that we?ve not had any conception success so far, and babies don?t appear on demand, we?ll continue as we are and only panic if we have to .

Maybe after coming off the pill in the New Year, you could try the sort of discussion that got me and DH initially TTC :
ME: I?ve forgotten to go the doctors to get some more pills, so I?m not taking any at the moment.

DH: hmm
ME: That means if you don?t wear wellies when we shag I might get pregnant.
DH: hmm
ME: So are you gonna use condoms then?
DH: hmm... nah
ME: So what would we do if I got pregnant?
DH: hum...well... it wouldn?t be a disaster would it?
ME: ok

Since then we have had maybe three or four baby themed discussions. When I switched jobs I suggested going back on the pill for a while, but DH said not to (on the grounds that we weren?t full of fertility anyway), which I interpreted as a sign of keenness on his part. A few weeks ago a did a quick commitment to baby making check and asked him if he still thought it wouldn?t be a disaster if we had kids and reminded him that his DIY speed would have to increase significantly if I was pregnant. He responded by telling me that he had a dream a few days ago in which we had a child. He couldn?t remember any details, but did recall that in the dream he felt quite happy. I interpreted that as a sign of extreme greenness!

Its probably just as well its taking us ages to conceive. It's taken us a year to get to the stage where we are both almost sure that we think it might be a good idea!

I am currently a steady underlying green with flashes of amber and occasional redness.

I cannot think of anything baby related, just DIY hell....

Sorry.

So, HP are you really going to come off the pill? I had to and, and sorry if this is TMI, was meant to have a coil fitted but it proved impossible to do. And, my god, it hurt! Some people seem to think they are brilliant, but that was not my experience. Horrid! Good to give your body a break from artificial hormones though.

Sorry, can't type more as at work

Congrats on the new shower, YTD! Our house doesnt have a shower, only a bath, and I would love a shower. And its good news that it has made you happier and more TTC-inclined. Given your current good feelings and green-ness and the prospect of the week of good lovin', maybe this month is the one and you can be our first dithering BFP! Speaking of baby dreams (a green DH, crazy!), does anyone else have them? I sometimes dream Im either pregnant or have a baby, and then the baby disappears.

Ahhh, Confused, you know me too well! As I said, the instant DH and I had our brief conversation, I went instantly red, got a bit freaked out and all the worries resurfaced. Your coil experience sounds horrible. Frankly, non-hormone contraception options are poor. When I spoke to my doctor a year ago (yes, a year ago) about coming off the pill he said he wouldnt advise me to use the coil as I hadnt had any children (ironically). Maybe that was your problem, C, you were too...erm...pert?!

Bloody hell, we had slipped off the bottom of the page!

Hello...[echos]..hello...hello..hello

Hi HP,

Just passing briefly through MN before retiring early (its that time of the month ). We are doing all the right things at the right time and I think I probably want a baby, but I'm still not entirely sure about it. Still, can't let fleeting indecision interfere with the important business at hand...

Hello! I hear you, HP, I hear you!

Currently hiding upstairs while poor DH is tiling, a job he started at 7am. We have both had a bugger of a day - him due to his tiling and me due to being told I couldn't take off the day next week that I had booked off to go away for the weekend while DH and a mate sanded and varnished the floor (I was taking the dog with me so DH could get on with it and not have the hassle of the dog - dogs and drying varnish or dusty machines don't mix well.) So, even though we have now booked the friends, the tickets and the sander and then I get told I cannot take the day off after all Try as I may, after all this is now costing me cash as well as the inconvenience, they would not budge. (The girl I work with is now unable to be there that day due to something medical and they think it's crucial at least one of us is in - it isn't.)

Then, to round off this shitty day, I weighed myself at a friends (we don't have scales, am now remembering why.) Have been feeling big and blobby (having no kitchen has not been helping as either eating quick and easy stuff or in the pub escaping from the mess) and I am... A STONE HEAVIER THAN I THOUGHT. [SHOCK] Yes, a bloody stone. I can get a job as jabba the hutt's body double now with no problem at all.

Due to both dog and house logistics and rapdily expanding waistline (and hips, and thighs...) I am a very deep and vivid shade of RED.

Yeah, I'm here. Just grumpy because of (a) period (not that I wasn't expecting it) (b) a whole load of shit-the-walls-are-caving-in DIY needing to be done right now when I haven't got time (c) work (d) work (e) work and (f) fatness - confused will have to push me out of the way in the queue to be Jabba's body double, as I too seem to have managed to put back on over the course of a week all the blubber I've lost in the last three months - if I look at myself sideways in the mirror I can almost convince myself that I'm already 5 months pregnant.....

Suerock we can have a belly off! I currently look as if have recently given birth - bloody awful it is too! I was kinda hoping it was all in my head, which is why I went on the scales in the first place, and instead made the discovery I am now eleven stone. I was thinking I was just over ten stone, which seemed bad enough.

Oooh, got to go (am at work so typing sneakily)

Something to think about now we're all on, er, red...

What do you think about home births? I ask as I have been trawling through threads on MN at work and actually find the prospect of a hospital birth quite horrendous. I have also come to this conclusion after listening to quite a few of my friends who are mothers.

As I am diabetic I would be classified as 'high risk' but that is because a) diabetics can have far bigger babies due to poor blood sugar control (which isn't an issue for me, as we know 'officially') and 2) diabetics are usually put on a glucose drip and also an insulin drip when they arrive at the maternity unit so they don't have to test when labouring and their sugar can stay on an even keel - to put this in perspective, a test takes 3 seconds, any jab would take less than 2 seconds and a small sip of, say, orange juice would sort out any hypo's (low blood sugar.) Me and DH have decided that monitoring that would be his job if we did find ourselves in that situation - am training him up on all the in's and outs of being diabetic all the time at the moment (ie asking him to test me and then asking why the result is a certain result, how much food or insulin I need and why etc.) Lastly, diabetics can often be induced due to both the tendency towards larger babies and also as it can be timed for when a consultant or whoever is there. All of this does seem very medicalised and, from what I can gather so far, not completely neccessary. A friend of mine is aiming for a homebirth and says that the midwives monitor everything so closely that they can stop most potential problems and transfer you to hospital before they crop up. Also, a transfer by ambulance means the neccessary team is waiting on hand for you, which means it could actually take longer for you to be 'seen to' by a team if you were already in hospital as they'd have to be bleeped / prepped etc (something that could be done as you're on the way to the hospital.) Hence, I think I would personally explore the option of homebirth (and would not stand for simply being told it's not hospital policy for Type 1's or whatever with no negotiation or discussion.)

What does everyone else think (and don't tell me that the thoughts have never entered your heads!)

Hmmmmm....(pretends to muse as if havent thought about it at all).....

Well, like most people I guess I just assumed that if I had a baby it would be born in a hospital. But there seems to be many more options these days, and I know a few people who have had or are planning a home birth. I never thought being in hospital would be a problem until I heard the stories about what you might encounter - the noise, the constant staff change-overs, the food, the cleanliness. So I definitely think its worth looking into all the options. Maybe a midwife-led unit might be a half-way place, not quite as clinical as an old school style labour ward but still with medical support. But a home birth would be great, especially going to your own bed afterwards. I think if you were lucky and got a forward thinking midwife/doctor who were relaxed about the T1D, you might be able to discuss it in a sensible way. Perhaps its the more old fashioned consultants who tend to be a bit more cautious.

Right. Belly size. Ladies, Im with you. If I see one more person glance at my budda-belly in a 'is-she-or-isnt-she-' way, I will scream. In fact, Ive taken to saying 'No, its just fat' when they do the glance. Poor sods. Since I wrote up, I have put on three quarters of a stone a bit of weight that I would be happier without. Saying that, I like the bigger boobs. Im going to try and lose a bit before Christmas.

Good luck with all the sex (YTD) and period/DIY nightmares (Confused and Suerock).

PS. Did anyone else look at the cervix photos? Oh. My. God.

Hi folks,

Feels like forever since I was last here. Nice to catch up with you all. Very much in awe of your DIY exploits, especially confused - sounds horrendous, but so very very impressive (MIXING CONCRETE???!!!) - no help now, but hopefully you will feel a huge and lasting sense of achievement and lots of deserved smugness for many months and years to come. Take my hat off to you. Sorry to hear you've got house woes too, Suerock. Whenever we get prolonged rain our house starts feeling damp and I know we need to do boring things like chimney flashing, probably quite urgently if I did but know it - but sticking my head in the sand, fingers in my ears, la la la la la, can't face it at the moment. (And as I'm not earning, we definitely can't afford expensive people like roofers).

Hope you're ok and over your infections HP. Exciting thoughts being voiced these days... And what's all this from YTD??! We could be falling over BFPs on here soon!

Having said that, am quite red at the moment. It just seems very very tough to be a mum, everywhere I look. Even those who are quite happy are really busy, pretty stressed and don't get anything like enough time to themselves. My sister is a brilliant mum and is enjoying some aspects of it a lot, I think, and my nephew is lovely, but she has found it tough and even had moments (and probably more than moments) when she wished she hadn't done it. But I also know that come the end of my cycle I'll be symptom spotting, and then curling up in a miserable ball when I get my AF... Don't know what to think, really.

Anyway, same old same old from me!

I'm also bemoaning quite impressive spare tyre, and haven't been running for weeks after my brief energetic spell in September. This time of year is a bit rubbish - I find it so hard not to put on weight. We should think of it as an evolutionary thing - sort of semi-hibernation instinct... It will all fall off magically in the spring (yeah, right).

Anyway, bed time - supposed to be a week of frantic shagging, though we're both so overloaded with work we're a bit too preoccupied and tired and not going to win any prizes for inventiveness or leisurely seduction, that's for sure. Still, where YTD goes, I must follow (so to speak!)...

LST - hello! It has indeed been ages! Looks like we're all gaining a lot bit of blubber. Shame it doesn't actually come off once the spring is here, in fact, the more I try and diet the more I want to eat and drink things I shouldn't I would suggest we all encourage one another but me and a friend have been doing this for, ahem, close to a year and I think I weigh more now than I did at the start. Even when training to do the triathlon I didn't loose a great deal as I had to eat so much before swimming or whatever (as diabetic, otherwise would pass out) but I was certainly smaller than I am now. Serves me right really, and I will now be trying to curb the bad stuff and encourage the good - and it will be SO much easier when we have a kitchen we can cook in again!

I cannot think of anything I'd rather do less when I got into bed at the moment than frantic shagging (apart from maybe more concreting) so there is no chance of a BFP from me at the moment! Our house, and lack of kitchen etc, is now in it's fourth week but DH thinks he'll be able to grout on Friday evening and then start plumbing things back in come Saturday. God, I hope so! The house is now getting very grim - the tidying and cleaning doesn't make much of a dent on the overall state of the place as there are boxes, cupboards and tools everywhere - and it will be so lovely to have it back to normal. I am off next weekend to London with the dog for the weekend so DH can sand and varnish the floors, which needed doing even before we started dripping concrete all over them. Am looking forward to a weekend away from it, and hopefully it will look almost normal again by the time we (me and the dog) get back. Actually, I suspect it won't as DH's idea of normal is different to mine, but I can dream!

HP No, I have not seen the cervix photo's. In fact, what cervix photo's? Do I really want to see them...?

I spent a bit of time last night reading about home births and Type 1's and found some quite interesting stuff - this link for example Home Birth Without the Drip While I am not sure I would actually push for a home birth, I think I would certainly want to explore it. I get the impression, as time, beds and staff are all in short supply, that interventions happen more than they really need to and obviously I wouldn't want to feel that happened to me. I am also dead set against this sliding drip business that diabetics are put on, it seems unneccessary too (a search just on Mumsnet revealed this.) The lovely diabetic nurse at the hospital I went to see a few weeks ago said she is making me a referral to see the Diabetic Obstetrician (this was before we were moving, obviously) and I think I might air a few of these views and findings when I see them just to test the water.
HP like you, who clearly hasn't thought of it either, perhaps something like a birthing centre or some other happy medium would be a good option.

Am at work, cant post much...

Go to page two of the TTC threads, a thread called 'AMAZING cervical photographs'. The site is called 'My beautiful cervix', I think.

Do not, repeat, do not open the weblink at work, unless very open minded boss!!

Okay - will look at home.
Er... am a bit squeamish, is it not for the faint hearted? Is it post childbirth? Am suspecting it is (hmm, maybe I'll not bother...)

Thankfully there is hardly any difference.

Think, pink snooker ball at the end of a meaty hollow sausage.

Urgh.

I looked at 'My Beautiful Cervix' and, sorry to say, I was very close to gagging (esp the shots with the alll the white goo.)

You'd think by my age I'd be a bit less squeamish, but apparently not...

Oh, if only my extra lard was going to keep me warm and hibernating all winter, only to disappear magically in the spring! Sadly I am back to the lettuce sandwiches in the hope that it really is all belly rather then bum and thighs, in which case I might have a fighting chance of shifting it again

I can't imagine ever getting as far as giving birth, so I'm not really sure about home vs hospital. A few friends have had very positive home birth experiences, and I quite like the idea of having a serene and relaxed labour in a pool of warm water in the lounge, with my entire CD collection to choose from, and having the undivided attention of two calm and professional midwives who can distract DH by asking for endless cups of tea [disappears off into a warm and fuzzy, soft-focussed baby green-ness.....] But pragmatically, I'm not sure I'd fancy the mess, and I think I might be a bit uncomfortable with being 40-50 minutes drive away from the nearest hospital with a maternity unit. But then again, I'd have less chance of getting MRSA at home (like one friend did) [ponders.....] It does seem, though (and this is not trying to put you off at all, confused) that it's difficult to get 'approval' to have a home birth - if there's any chance of the baby being a bit big, or having its arm behind its back, or if the woman has the slighest hint of anything other than being a completely textbook case, then they want you in hospital.

Those cervix photos were quite impressive. I've often wondered what mine looks like but I am never in a million years going to suggest DH goes in there with a camera (so to speak). But it would certainly shut the inquisitive up if they appeared alongside the holiday snaps

Yuck yuck yuck!

Just back from My Beautiful Cervix. I managed to get to day 20 before wanting to puke. I know I ought to want to know this stuff, but it was a bit too much information. I am trying to imagine what sort of reaction I'd get from DH if i gave him a camera and a miners lamp and asked him to do similar!!

Confused you have my heart felt sympathies re DIY induced house chaos. We've been living in relative squalor for the best part of a year cos our bathroom has turned into such a long running saga. I just clean around the edges of the mess now and tell myself I'll clean it properly once its finished!

I think I'd probably race to the front of the queue to be Jabba's body double. My mate who is 4 1/2 months pregant looks less pregnent than I do. I'm sure one of the motivating factors behind my desire to be pregnant is the fact that I already look pregnant and I'm looking for an excuse! I need to lose about a stone to get to a healthy BMI, but have no motivation to do anything about it.

A friend of ours opted for a home birth, but eneded up having to go into hospital anyway cos they were worried that the baby might be in distress and needed to hook her up to a monitor. She had a c-section in the end, which was a bit disappointing cos she planned a home water birth! However, if there are problems, the system is equipped to cope with it, so you can plan a home birth and get moved if the situation demands it.

I think I'd probably consider a midwife led unit. Our local unit is on site at our general hosptial, so transfer to the hospital delivery suite should be pretty easy if required. I'd want to avoid hospital if possible, just because I think giving birth shouldn't be a medical procedure. But I don't think I'd opt for a home birth cos a) I'd want access to decent pain relief and to be near help should anything go wrong and b) I don't want to have to clean up afterwards! So I think the midwife led unit looks like the best middle ground. A midwife led unit in a community setting would be even better, but we don't have one of those near us. You can find out about your birth options at NHS Choices. There should be links to your local services from that page as well.

Just in case any of us need to know in the near / distant future...

Morning all!
I spoke to DH last night about my home birth ideas (and that's all they are, ideas) and he seemed most disapproving. He said that women used to die in childbirth before all the time, and didn't seem to buy my argument that women are rushed along (hence the forceps, epiostomy etc) nowadays which is why they often have medical procedures that they don't really need. I suppose we (we as in all of us on this thread, as well as me and DH) are getting ahead of ourselves with this, but I do think it's interesting if nothing else. Maybe hypothetically we'll all want serene water births but in reality we'll be screaming for drugs 20 minutes into labour! DH also said that he wouldn't 'want to put me through it' but he's as bad as me with the red / amber / green business.

God knows! I am getting rather tired of this loop though. All we need is a perfect house, money in the bank (make that lots of money) a body to die for that would also twang into shape after (and a pregancy that looks like a Formes advert) and life would be so much simpler.

Re loosing weight - I can't be arsed either, but I also hate feeling like such a blob. As it also takes SO bloody long to shift any weight this is not an incentive either. I do plenty of exercise, especially compared to general population, but clearly not quite enough. Bugger.

Got to go, DH rebooting the computer which may affect the wifi

One of DHs 'reasons' for not being involved in the decision to have children is that he says that he has no right to ask me to put my body through all that. So Im not sure what views he would have on a birth situation. Its good you are talking about it, Confused, even if you dont quite agree yet! Its true, birth comes with many risks, and no-one wants to return to the dark days of 30% maternal deaths, but I dont think the 1950s 'lie on your back and shut up while we inject you' is a good idea either.

Perfect house/money/amazing twanging figure?? Sign me up! I totally agree about the loop, I just go round and round in circles thinking about all this stuff all the time. Too much to try and get sorted in too short a time.

Was anyone else surprised at those cervix pictures, like they werent quite what you were expecting it to look like? Im a biologist, for goodness sake, and Ive never seen an internal photo of the snooker ball/hollow sausage set up. And I didnt realise the juices would be so obviously 'present'. I could have lived without the demonstration of twangy EWCM though.

Also, in the spirit of TMI, due to all the extra-strength antibiotics Ive been on, we have had to take some, er, extra precautions (once I started feeling like a bit of action, as opposed to just holding my head in my hands and crying from the pain). So that was a taste of what it would be like if I did come off the pill...sometime...in the future...

I have to lose half a stone, or buy all new clothes. I could get off my arse and go to the gym. Sigh.

To be honest, I have never really thought about what a cervix would look like. In fact, if you'd have asked me 24ish hours ago (well, before I looked at that site) I wouldn't have been able to come up with very much at all. It was the, urgh, 'juices' that made me feel like gipping really. Interestingly (or maybe not interestingly) I sent the link to DH who said it was really interesting (in a non fruity way) and couldn't understand my reaction, especially as I've got one.

I suppose our DH's do have a point in a way about not being the one making the Big Decision as it isn't their body. I can't make my mind up if the whole childbirth thing is as horrific as I think it could be or, er, worse. Guess none of us will unless we get there - and it would be a bit late then to change our minds!

As for the spare situation we all have going on, don't go to the gym. Gym's are evil. Boring, sweaty and evil. I trained in one ONCE when training for the triathlon (the idea being I could easily go from the pool, to the exercise bike to the treadmill and not have to lug Mars Bars etc with me too to stop passing out) and HATED it. I find it really weird that people pay £'s each month to run on a treadmill, for example, when they could don an iPod or similar and take to the great outdoors. And, as I found out several times to my shame, treadmills are very easy to fall off if you tend to run at different paces.

Am green today. No idea why, but I am really green!

Green hmmmmmm. Are you doing anything about it or are you hanging on until after the move?

I was thinking today about why its so difficult to decide either way. Then I thought about buying a house. I know there are financial risks, we are well skint saving up for a deposit and its a massive committment and may well backfire if we get stuck in a neg-equity situation, but still, I really want to buy a house. Maybe thats what happens when you want a baby. The negative stuff matters less, on the whole, and you really see the positives? I just havent got to that point with the baby yet. If I ever will.

(Apologies for anyone offended by me comparing having a baby to buying a house. )

I would LOVE to be the type of person who runs. I look like I should be a runner and it appeals to me. Im just really, really crap at it. I get a stitch instantly, I feel sick, I cant breathe properly and I get bored. Plus I dont like the cold, and its a bit rough where I live, I might get robbed by street gangs hanging aound the allotments. Shameful laughter at you falling off a treadmill

Also, laughing at your DHs reaction to the cervix shots. Maybe he wouldnt be so blah-say if he was looking at photos taken by someone opening his privates with a metal device and crawling up with a digital SLR and a headlamp! Im so tempted to show my DH....