To TTC or not to TTC, that is the question... as Hamlet sort of said about something else entirely

[CHW]

Hi,
Had few glasses of wine and have spent large part of the evening on this site. I am in two minds about a baby - or really, at the age of 35 (but Type 1 diabetic which can complicate thingss) and really ought to make a decision about whether to have a family or not.
I worry about cost, the changes it will make to our lives and, well, if I am actually just happy as I am. Me and DH discussed going for it, so to speak, sometime after the start of Aug (as did the London Triathlon before then so couldn't before then) and decided we would once the triathlon was out the way. Now it is and we are both stalling. But it is playing on both our minds - in the do we, or don't we way.

My babyometer keeps going haywire - any tips or things for me to also consider which may help us make a decision. I am also wondering if we are simply analysing things too much but beeing diabetic makes things more complicated (ie they need to be planned, in an ideal world at least.) Any help or food for thoughts would be MASSIVELY appreciated!

Laydeez,
I am back from the appointment and feeling very smug indeed!

The diabetes specialist nurse was lovely; not remotely patronising and there was no talk of food diaries or the like which I was expecting. Instead, I was asked about what I knew about all things baby (rather a lot it turns out) and then she elaborated on how she and the team could help support and assist with it all, as well as what to expect from them in terms of care. She was especially impressed with my blood readings - 'close to perfect' - and also that we had done a triathlon (her husband does them so she knows what's involved.) She said that I clearly think for myself and know my own mind and body and then added, the piece de resistance of the appointment , 'there wouldn't be a single healthcare professional would'd be able to come up with a single reason for you to not to go for it as soon as you want to.'

A lot of the stuff she talked to me about was what to expect if you are a diabetic mum to be, which means a scan as soon as you get a positive, scans then every 4 weeks which then go to every two in the last few months and how to be aware of things like hypo's (when you need sugar) being more sudden and you not having the warning you'd usually have (knew this anyway, she was telling DH more than me.) Lastly, she is going to refer me to the obstetric team who deal with diabetics so I could meet them and find out in detail about their end of things (so to speak!) but that could take a while so we don't have to hold of TTC while we wait for it to come through.

All very positive! And, DH said he's happy to dramatically cut back the booze in the new year too (which, considering recent conversations, is a bonus too!)

ps will reply properly to other's posts when not at work as can only type sneakily at work and not have MN on the screen!

Great news, confused, not all health professionals are idiots! So are you GREEN?!?

Green? Er... yes, but quite a pale green (ridiculous all things considering I know!)

The nurse I saw today implied that she didn't really know why Val (nurse at GPs) was so insistent I went to see them and why she listed a load of things I needed to be 'taught' too (the nurse said this in a nice but bemused way) before being 'allowed' to TTC. Glad it's not just me who thought odd then! Overzealous comes to mind...

Thats good news from both of you, Confused and LST, sounds like both of your appointments were productive () and positive. So, is the plan for both of you to go at it like rabbits and see what happens?! Not together, obviously, but with your respective DPs. And its great news that both DPs are willing to cut down on the beers, not only for technical reasons but as a show of committment to the process. I have my fingers crossed for both of you that everything works out exactly as you want it to, daily changes in colour notwithstanding!

I hope that even if most of you are TTC despite red or amber status', that you dont leave me and disappear completely off to the pregnancy threads, or bloody hell, the childbirth threads. I can picture myself still in here in two years time, typing messages to myself and lamenting my inability to make a decision to an empty thread

Great that the appointment went well and the nurse was nice and sensible and gave you the credit due, confused - hopefully the other nurse was the exception. All sounds good, anyway. Exciting that there is nothing holding you back!

Good news re. DH and the drink too. I'm not seeing vast amounts of evidence of mine cutting down at the moment, I have to say, but the odd small concession, which is a start, I guess.

My plan is certainly to have masses of sx and try very very hard to conceive naturally, HP* - it sounds a whole lot easier that way, frankly. But if not, at least there is an alternative and might as well get onto the waiting list. But don't worry, I won't be vanishing anytime yet - treatment won't start until at least March (and, good as he's being, in general, at the moment, I anticipate a fair bit of feet-dragging, or just general slowness, from DH over the remaining tests he has to have so it may even be longer...). Others very likely to be pregnant first, in fact!

Never mind, feel very motivated and getting down to IT, albeit a little unspontaneously, quite well at the moment.

HP from my limited experiences on other threads I think I'll still be on this one regardless of whether I have 10 kids (god forbid) so no worries there! I certainly won't become a regular on the AIBU threads, that's for sure!

LST I hope you are so busy shagging (shag, shag, shag) that we hardly hear a peep out of you all weekend - and I mean that in the nicest possible way!

Me and DH have decided to go for it come January so we can enjoy (ie get pissed guilt free) the festive season. The nurse I saw at the hospital said something about potential damage being done to the foetus in the first few days which has made me think that we ought to be quite careful. I personally thought it was kind of okay for the first ten days as the baby isn't attached to anything but the nurse seemed to think otherwise and I suppose it isn't really worth the risk.

Good plan, confused - you'll feel all virtuous and ready for clean living in the New Year (not that you're not pretty healthy and moderate already by the sound of it). And that's sobering (if you'll excuse the pun) advice about the drinking. Will bear that in mind, at least in the last two weeks of the cycle...

Aargh, don't know what's happened to me today but I've gone all red. Had a conversation with dear friend of mine, who has two boys, 3 and 1. She's dying for me to have kids, and loves hers dearly, but in the next breath talks about how she "just has to accept that she can't turn back the clock and make things the way they used to be", i.e. before kids, but makes it clear that (in some respects at least) she longs to. And somehow the daily grind of it always sounds really unappealing, without her intending it to - no sooner has she cleaned up one mess, another is created, 3 year old is taking months to potty train, one of the two is pretty much always crying etc. There are things about her life that make it difficult - she lost her dream job, through no fault of her own (they moved the whole dept to Singapore), just before she got pregnant and can't get back into the workplace at the moment in a very competitive field, she lives in London and her parents live in the North of Scotland, and his family abroad so they have zero support, and so on. But still.

Having got this far, I just don't know if I can do it. And DH doesn't want to - can't help wondering if he's right.

Sorry a) to rant, and b) to set cats among pigeons when most of us were at least semi-green. But just woke up feeling "gulp", somehow. (Don't know why I'm worrying as it will be months if it happens at all...)

We're off to Ireland for a christening tonight with DH's family - hope to have a chat with my lovely and very sensible SIL about motherhood, as she has a one year old girl. Subtly like, obviously - not "I hear it's awful"...

And, will try to keep up the bedroom action - today is an exception and have been green, more or less, for ages. But a bit of a wobble.

Worry not, LST, I too have fallen into the red zone, both figuratively and literally as I am on the slide into my pill-free week. Do you think its the reality of your appointment, that it all feels a bit real now?

The story of your friend is probably a summary of why many of us on here were/are struggling so much with the whole TTC/children issue. How much are we giving up? What if I regret it? What if it wrecks my relationship?

Well, I dont have any answers, thats for sure. I wish I did. But being on here with you lot is making me feel better!

Evening ladies,

Glad to hear the appointments went well for you both LST and Confused and that its all systems go (sort of) for baby making! LST, despite my occassional bouts of extreme greenness the reason I hang about a lot on this thread is because I too sometimes wonder whether its really worth it.

I met up with a chum who had a baby in April last night and she was being a bit giddy cos her dd has just learnt to clap. It's quite sweet to see her geeting so excited about baby's progress, but I did think fleetingly that it was a bit sad that her life has become so entirely baby-centric. I'm not sure that I want to swap my currentl life for one so constrained and domestic. At the moment work is just starting to get interesting and quite challenging and I'm not really sure that I want to take a break. Also, I am so looking forward to a lazy weekend and long lie ins - nappies and five am starts doesn't seem too appealing.

Pretty amber at the moment, if not actually downright red. Maybe I'm just too lazy cos my primary question tonight is are babies really worth the hassle?

HP I'll still be on this hread even if I get preggers. Where else on Mumsnet could I confess the fear that it was all a huge mistake and I'd like to send the baby back please?

thread even

Aww, LST, sorry you're having a red wibble. I hope you have (had) a good weekend away and feel a bit more certain one way or the other next week. Aren't christenings supposed to induce green-ness?! (I was born 10 months after my parents went to one!)

Great news on your appointment confused - you have every right to feel duly proud of yourself!

For what it's worth, I reckon most parents have moments when they wish they could post the children back where they came from, but overall it's something they're glad they did. And while I have friends whose sole topic of conversation is their child's potty training/progess in toddler French/musical genius, I also know people who still enjoy their pre-baby interests, even if they have to compromise a bit. So it's possible. I seriously hope that if I ever have a child, I can still be the old me as well as a mother.

As you might gather, I'm feeling relatively green at the moment, possibly because spending a six months in the company of a screaming infant looks quite attractive compared to work at the moment! Or possibly it's because it's coming up to a suitable time of the month to try and cajole DH into some action.... Oh, and BTW I'm sure I'll still be here in future, whatever happens on the baby front - unless I get rumbled by DH, family or work, in which case I might have to disappear and reappear under another identity.

LST I think you have just summed up why I have my red moments too. I do know people, admittedly one's who had their families very young, who have said things along the lines of 'if I knew then what I know now I wouldn't have bothered' - and while said in a jokey way there must surely be a thread of truth in there too...? I also, like YTD said, hate the idea of everything being so baby centred. I would too want to be still ME and not just 'so and so's mummy' - ugh! I think I'd go insane if I didn't, surely?

We have made a major decision this weekend. We had some friends over for dinner and got talking about our dire cash sitation and how we can't seem to get out of it. I mentioned at the beginning, we are hugely in debt - another small bonus from my dear father - and while having an income of between £2500 and £5500 a month between us just cannot pay off anywhere what we need to pay off. We also cannot save so every time something goes wrong (last year it was the boiler) it has to be put on a credit card and it's not getting any better. To have a child now would be stupid, but if we wait till we are better off financially I'll be close to 40 (and DH 45) so that doesn't appeal either. So, in short, we have decided to sell our house and move up north (I am from the grim north) and buy something smaller, pay off our debts and be able to save. With our current income (we currently have outgoings of a ghastly £3000 a month and that's just paying off interest) we'd be able to put away a grand a month and that's not even being that frugal. No brainer really.
So now getting the house ready to sell (one's similar to ours have gone for £240k upwards) and we will then buy one for a less stretching £125k to live in for 3 years before we buy something big beautiful and rambling, which was our idea for three years time anyway.

All very exciting if a little scary!

Need to go as DH is trying to get me to help him clear stuff. Back later if I can!

Just about to eat, so will be quick...

Confused, thats SO exciting! Im from the North as well, and would move back if I could. Mainly, its not grim, but beautiful, interesting and friendly. And if it will sort out all your financial stuff in one swoop (grrrr to your dad), then so much the better!

Back later.

Thanks - my thoughts exactly! We would be moving to Hebden Bridge which is fab - very broad minded and forward thinking. Me and DH went and had a look the the other week and he loved it too (he was a bit sceptical considering it's a mere 7 miles from Halifax which is a shit hole.)

Our intial plan was to move there in three or four years anyway but we'd still have some debt (or maybe even all the debt) but this way we can move forward and also draw a line under all the negative dad related stuff.

Got to go now and look for beech worktops - back later on too

Back again, but not for long as we are going to watch a film. (BTW, DH still doesnt know Im anywhere near this website - long may that continue!)

Ages ago you said that once you make a decision, you like to get on with it - I see what you mean! Its so great though, and sounds like a really good plan. If you were going to move in a few years anyway, you may as well use the equity in your house to have a fresh start now rather than later. How exciting!

Hope you found some worktops that you like!

Worktops are all ordered, thanks!

I didn't realise I had said that. Guess it must be true though! It feels like a very positive decision, and a very wise one (long term too.)

All excited and want to MOVE RIGHT NOW.

Oh oh...

Enjoy the film and hopefully 'speak' soon x

confused - gosh, how exciting! Have you got a timescale in mind or will it depend on when you can find a job/sell your house/find another house/get pregnant? I'm quite jealous - would love to be able to move somewhere I want to live, rather than having jobs dictate where we end up! (Both DH and I do jobs which are not evenly distributed over the country unfortunately - I knew I should have gone into dentistry like school told me to....)

We hope to have gone in 6 months but, really, if we can get the house ready and it sells quickly then we go even earlier. I think about six months but it maybe more and it maybe less; guess we don't know till we try. Then, due to the move etc we'll have both money in the bank and time to do the new house up (without worrying about finding the cash for next months bills - we can cover what we need there easily) so we can, gulp, really do the baby thing! I was worried about being squashed up in a house at the moment but, looking at the house we like the look of now, it's not that much diffference to the one we're in now which is plenty big enough.

Have been quite amber / red this week but now am feeling rather green!

Suerock - what do you do (as you're not a dentist?)

Oooh Confused, that?s great. I?m from the grim North myself, (near Skipton) and am currently exiled in the Midlands. Hebden Bridge is fab ? all the friendliness and cheapness of the North plus cappuccinos and more than one type of tea!

Hopefully you can get moved and on your way asap. You certainly sound to be getting on with it! You know, you might not need to wait too long before TTC. My best friend found out she was pregnant on the day they moved house. Her DH has been pretty highly motivated on the DIY front since then ? there?s nothing like an immovable deadline to get you cracking on with things!

I take it you and DH have jobs that you can move quite easily? I?m relatively flexible (owing to a recent change of direction job-wise I now have two possible career routes, so have a fairly good chance of finding gainful employment in any location) but DH is an automotive engineer, so he has to be near a car plant ? that gives us not much choice of location! We are juggling various pots of debt (nothing as hideous as yours confused and we created ours ourselves, rather than having it foisted on us by an errant parent ) and trying to do up a wreak of a house with money we don?t have. I have a two year plan for financial stability which comes to an end next March. Part of me still things now is probably not a good time to be TTC, but I just figure that we will adapt and manage whatever happens. And as nothing seems to be happening, it?s probably the right thing to do.

Hurrah for the Grim North, eh! And great to hear that you know Hebden and also what it's like. My stepdad lived near Skipton once, a little village called Hebden (just Hebden, not Hebden Bridge) which as a couple of miles from Grassington. The dales are beautiful but not sure how I'd hope with all the tourists (and maybe it would be a bit Daily Mail...?)

Yes, we both have flexible jobs which is great, no being tied to a certain area. In fact, DH works from the small bedroom and has clients all over the place so it doesn't really matter where we are.

I think I'll, briefly, say what happened with my dad. When we said we were wanting to move from Bristol from London he insisted, yes insisted he wanted to give us £40k towards it. At the time he was driving around in a £150k Maserati etc etc so we had no reason to think this wouldn't happen.

DH had a stress problem which was making work difficult - my dad, John, was well aware of this - and we said that we wanted to use the majority of the £40k as a buffer while DH got himself together, and also for doing up the house. We spent our savings buying our house (the deposit and various fee's were about £25kish) and then, with John's encouragement found a builder to knock walls through, we bought furniture (he even came shopping with us), had various things replaced (wiring, some of the sash windows) and John kept saying he had the cash, but also kept giving excuses. This left us with no choice but to put things on a card, and as we know debt breeds debt - but he kept saying not to worry, he could wipe out the debt and also give us a bit more as he was doing really well etc etc.

This was in October. By March we were really struggling as had a limited income and the mortgage kept going up. We needed to buy things like computers, have cards and leaflets printed etc for DH to get his freelance work going so had to put that too on cards. There was obviously no choice there. Still, John said he couldn't get the actual cash over - various bullshit excuses - but he would, definitely, 'don't worry' blah blah blah. Then, at the end of March he called me and said his business partner had stolen his cash. (At the time I felt awful for him, but now, adding everything up, I think he was lying and never really had the cash in the first place.)
The companies who had said they would certainly use the skills of DH then only got in touch sporadically, and we were relying on just my income a lot of the time. The mortage had gone up massively and we had no buffer, as planned (and John knew all about our plans, Phil's stress etc) so had to pay for the mortage on a card a couple of times and also had all the building work, furniture etc on cards too (we had moved to a 3 bed house from a tiny flat so needed a lot of stuff, and would have waited if we'd known what was going to happen but John was even helping is track down fucking builders! )

So, in a rather large nutshell - this is why we are broke and also why we are moving to somewhere smaller and cheaper in Hebden Bridge.

I suppose on these things one is meant to keep your identity a secret but, well, fuckit.

So now, we have a plan, we can draw a line under everything, and it's onwards and upwards!

Oh yes, and we moved 4 years ago so have been living with the constant worry about money ever since then.

Right, I shall rant no more on the matter!

I am dying to write lots in response to everyone's posts, especially yours, confused what a nightmare......... - but very exciting and sounds eminently sensible on the move front - GOOD FOR YOU - sounds like you're making something very positive and life-changing in a very good way out of a horrible mess. (And went to Hebden Bridge a few months ago as my sister lives not too far away and loved it - what a cool place ). Good luck with it all!

But am utterly and completely shattered after the weekend and a very long day - driving and 7 hrs of lectures without a break - and think I will wait until I'm more coherent before posting properly .

(Have recovered a small bit of greenness, despite spending most of Saturday night kept awake by crying baby at my SIL's... But wobbling all over the place back and forth - it probably is the very-slightly-more-real reality of recent things, though I'm hardly on the verge of anything yet!)

Will write properly soon. Hi to all xx

Hurrah - lets ALL move to Hebden Bridge! I am already working on various friends (some in London who are unlikely to stay there forever, and others in places like Leeds, which they hate but need to be near for work reasons.)

I am trying to crack on with book stuff so need to keep this brief - it's amazing how easy it is to spend HOURS on this site! And none of us are even bloody parents either!

Anyway, tara for now...