TTC after pregnancy loss 32 - the penguin huddle

[ReeReeR]

New thread 🐧🐧🐧

I have accidentally created a thread 33 as well but will delete that!

@LASandOtto It absolutely isn't about being "deserving", if it was, mothers who don't look after themselves or who are abusive would never have children. That's not the case. It's a pot of luck, sometimes very cruel. Sometimes there is a reason, a medical one, which can be addressed, but again, there is never a guarantee. I agree, AI had to get out of trying to find a reason, an answer, or a guarantee for the future. There won't be any, it's as simple as that, and I have to live with it. We all do. I absolutely hate the comments "it's happened for a reason" or "it wasn't meant to be". Death of a child does not happen for a reason or because it wasn't meant to be. It's painful and senseless and that's that. We can only try to grow from the experience and become better people, but things will never ever be the same. That said, there is joy in this life which we shouldn't deprive ourselves of. Not everything has to be forever overshadowed by our tragedy. Xxx

@MrsMGE I do feel a bit down but then I can feel really on the next minute. I think for the most part keeping busy helps a lot but I do have those moments of sadness no matter what. I don’t think there’s any avoiding it. But I am planning to seek more counselling. I got it through work before so might see if I can have more sessions with the same woman. Sometimes it helps just knowing I have that appointment in the diary where I can say what’s on my mind without bothering my DH or friends or family.

I don’t know if being a lawyer changes things but maybe you are right about it being who it control. One thing that bothers me is that I tried to do everything right. I didn’t drink when I was pregnant, I didn’t drink caffeine, I slept on my side, I wouldn’t have put my baby in a car seat on a pram and pushed her around for hours like some people seem to do (not advised), I’d gave had her next to me for at least six months, I didn’t get over excited and start buying things until quite late on in the pregnancy and so it does seem unjust that my baby died and it annoys me when I see people seemingly not being as diligent as I was and their babies will probably be fine! I even know people in situations where the pregnancy / baby is somewhat unwanted and I am sure they will be fine. I remember having my glucose tolerance test and one of the women was having child number five and telling me how she has to have extra growth s and because she smokes. She was almost boasting that her children were big despite her smoking!

However we can’t control everything or even know what the future holds. The buddhist monk I listen to says that when something bad happens to us we ask “why me?!” but he says we should be thinking “why not me?” If the stillbirth stats, for example, are 1 in 225 then someone has to be that 1 so why not us? I also remind myself that whilst what happened to our babies my be relatively rare, horrible things happen every day. I know someone who had her baby when I had mine and her baby is fine but her husband left her for another woman and she is heartbroken.h cousin has a ten month old but just lost her mum. I have a colleague who lost her husband about a year ago and has been rebuilding her life. I have a somewhat estranged relative who has been in touch because they are being evicted and have three kids (we are the lawyers obviously).

I think we do need to try to stay positive and not let what has happened get us down but I think it’s inevitable that sometimes it will

I hope you’re ok and sorry for the rambly post everyone xx

@ReeRi I so agree with "doing everything right" and yet things not having a happy ending. It is very difficult to accept, there's no reo ways about it.

I also agree that we inevitably will have bad times, and that's part of the experience unfortunately. I sometimes try to detach myself and think if this happened to someone I know, would I expect them to be absolutely fine and just move on? And the answer is, I wouldn't. So I try to be kinder to myself as well. It's actually OK to live through the bad times and keep yourself in check by making the most of the better times and looking after yourself so that you have some energy to bounce back easier when you're feeling low. I've been doing this for a few weeks now and it's the best approach I've tried so far. Xxx

@MrsMGE @ReeReeR @LASandOtto you all speak so wisely. I think it's easy to get hung up on statistics and whilst they can be useful in terms of providing reassurance that things are likely to be fine in particular circumstances, unfortunately all of us on here have drawn one or more short straws in our life. If I rack up what has happened in the last ten years the odds would be insane - divorce, serious blood clot, DH's heart attack, two pregnancy losses....each of these things was statistically unlikely but someone has to be the 'one in....', and ultimately I feel blessed for the fact that we have survived. @MrsMGE you are so right that things don't always happen 'for a reason', some of us are just dealt a really awful card in life and we are the only ones who can decide if we will let that break us or keep journeying on.
During the past few years we (like many of you) have lost love ones, and in spite of everything we know that making the most of each day is the most important thing as every one is precious. Though don't get me wrong not knowing if I will ever have my own baby is cripplingly painful, and does sometimes hold me back from making the most of things.

@ReeRi I hope you feel a little better this evening and don't ever apologise for rambling!

@ceebee21 hard doesn't even scratch the surface! You are right, I have found it so much easier when I've been open and talked about my experiences but so many people still suffer in silence. After my second unsuccessful pregnancy I shared an article on social media about miscarriage and as a result several people I know publicly replied talking about their own awful experiences. I don't want to be a poster girl for miscarriage but I feel good for knowing that others might now feel slightly less alone should they experience loss in the future. Talking about my experiences and feelings is what has got me through the past two months since I lost our second baby. This group is incredible for giving a place to let out exactly how you feel with no judgement, no fear, just love and support from an amazing community.

I’m ok thanks @Avocuddles I think I am starting to realise I am dealing with something very difficult (loss of our baby girl and also the fear you have that I might not have a healthy child of my own) and it does affect me in a daily basis and that’s ok but it doesn’t affect all of my day and everything I do. I’m still me. I think sometimes we are too hard on ourselves and maybe don’t acknowledge that we are doing well. As you say we’ve all handled some of the hard stuff but we are here and still trying and we are supporting each other.

@ReeRi you are right it is very easy to be hard on ourselves but it's rarely productive. I love how supportive and uplifting this group has been recently, and I hope that once all of you amazing women get your BFPs (ones that stick for 9 months!) you will regularly pop back to keep the motivation going. I hope we have a flurry of BFPs before the year is through and that 2020 is filled with rainbow babies for all of us....

I hope so too @Avocuddles This is a lovely group and we all deserve some joy, although I want my baby to stick not “just” for nine months (my baby died unfortunately at 40 weeks) - we want healthy babies delivered! Maybe 2020 will be our year 🤞 I pop onto the graduates thread from time to time to see how people are doing. It really is a supportive group x

I think the same, I'm now aware of all the risks, early miscarriage, late miscarriage, stillbirth, and really, I want to things in life, 1. to have a healthy baby that will live, and 2. to be happy. 2. at the moment seems to depend on 1., but I'm working on myself to make this connection a bit lighter. I don't want to be miserable forever because I haven't got my baby (yet). I think there's a difference between grieving and being completely miserable about the here and now, and the future. Of course our misery is linked to the loss as well, but at least this is something we can work on, I believe, and make it easier, whereas grief is something we have to live through and carry with us, individually. Grief does feel easier in time, there's hope for us in this as well.

We are way too hard on ourselves, I haven't noticed this before, but the more I listen to you all as well, I see it so very clearly. I think the more ambitious and hard working you are, the harder you are on yourself. I was unforgiving and beating myself over the littlest of things. I only now realise this was the wrong approach all along and it took away so much joy from my life. I can't afford more of it to be taken away now, so I'm working hard on myself to become my own friend, not an enemy. Xxx

Oh @ReeRi I'm so sorry. I've just slapped myself on the forehead over the insensitivity of the nine month comment!!! I obviously know all about your heartbreaking journey (and that of the others here who have had late / full term losses), this group has taught me that whilst we might fixate on the first twelve weeks, the whole of pregnancy is incredibly dangerous and there is no guarantee that being 'healthy' at 12 weeks, 20 weeks or 40 will result in taking home a baby. Like you I often take a look at how familiar names are doing on the graduates thread and it's lovely to see how well they are getting on. I hope I get there again one day - I will definitely need that support as any future pregnancy will be even more terrifying than the previous now I've read and learned so much about what can go wrong. But as so many others have said I know that I need to try to remain positive and hopeful that the next pregnancy will progress further than the previous two, and hopefully result in a live baby. Because if we don't have hope, then what's the point in trying?

Yes, we are all very hard on ourselves. What we didn't do but should've done. What we ate but shouldn't have eaten. The exercise class we didn't go to. The friend we didn't call. And the list goes on and on.

We don't stop and celebrate every little achievement. We don't appreciate all the things we do achieve. The daily work challenges. Running a house and household. Being there for friends. Coming on this chat and posting to support each other. Getting up every day and mastering a smile, even a laugh, even when we don't feel like it.

I think we are all more aware.

Xx

Girls, I'm so proud of myself, I said no to a competitor trying to poach me thinking they are "IT", but not paying enough. I am actually delighted, no messing around, no endless emails, no wasting time on updating my CV or attending the interview. You don't pay, you don't get, thank you, next! Hallelujah to assertiveness! I'm going for a promotion soon anyway, so fingers crossed 🤞 Happy to have my mojo back! Xxx

Brilliant @MrsMGE that's so great to hear and what a solid move!

I was meant to have my catch up today with my manager and I've been waiting for a promised pay rise and promotion since August which was promised to come October, which has come and gone and nothing has happened. I had on my agenda today to tell her of my disappointment in having to continuously ask for updates on something that should've been in place since August. Saw her in the office with HR and Comp and Bens after that, so here is hoping my assertiveness today (and standing my ground) will bring some results.

I'm so proud of all your ladies on this chat! X

Thanks @LASandOtto 😊 You go for it too, we'll done!

That Michelle Obama's book is definitely doing me good! There's nothing quite like female solidarity, girl power 💪 xxx

Hello ladies thanks @ReeRi for asking after me. Sorry I've been Awol again. I've been really poorly (still am). I too love to read but I'm more into fantasy. I am currently reading my way through the David and Leigh Eddings books right now.

Bit of a gutting day today 11dpo and a bfn on a frer so deffo out this cycle (not surprising really given dtd timing followed by the worst cold I've ever had).

Good news I had a telephone call yesterday to bring my referral appointment date forward. It was May 2020 but now January 2020. It does mean that we've only got one more cycle to try before we will have to wait until after treatment is done if anything can be done. It might very well be our very last cycle of trying ever for all we know.

@Avocuddles It’s ok, I wouldn’t expect that to be at the forefront of your mind but unfortunately I am very aware that I went through a whole healthy pregnancy only to lose my baby anyway. I don’t think there will be a time when I feel safe if I get pregnant again.

@MrsMGE @LASandOtto well done on the assertiveness!

I’ve got Michelle Obama’s autobiography but haven’t read it

@Mumlili8 it’s good your appointment has been moved forward. I hope you get some answers

I’ve enjoyed our chat about how we treat ourselves. We do need to be kinder to ourselves

DH and I went to an adoption information evening. I think I realise I’d like to keep trying to have a child of my own first and then maybe consider adoption later (whether or not we do manage to conceive) but we managed to have a massive argument afterwards. Different things were said during the talk that made us talk of different things. Talk of harm done to children in utero obviously made me think of my baby. Talk of teenagers obviously made him think of his older children. The fact he said that obviously upset me as he was thinking about his children and not our DD and I don’t have any other children to think about and maybe never will have 🙄 It was a big argument too that had resulted in it’s basically not speaking which is shit because we’re both obviously upset and emotional and this makes it worse! I feel a bit needy like a need a hug but he’s been an arse so I’m trying to ignore him 😬

@ReeRi I know arguments are never nice but you could us it as a good time to talk openly and honestly about your daughter, future children and both your feelings. So times it clears the air. Nevermind if he's in an arse if you need a cuddle ask for one, you never know he might need one too but to stubborn to say so.

Morning ladies 😀

There's so much lovely positivity going on this thread that thought I'd add my positive bit for today. Just walked my little boy to school, he's 5 and has special needs and is absolutely fascinated by rainbows.

We start walking to school with it raining heavily when all of a sudden the rain eases off, the sun comes out a bit and there in front of us is a huge rainbow. My little boy is so excited to see one and says to me that rainbows are magic. We talk about how rainbows are special, that you can never see one when it's all sunny. That the magic of a rainbow is that you always have to have the rain first and then the rainbow comes out and makes you smile.

I suddenly realised that my innocent conversation about rainbows was my important lesson today, that we've all been through our dark times and our heartaches but to keep faith that soon the sun will come out and we'll all be smiling at our own beautiful rainbows 🌈 xxxx

@MrsG3 I love this story ❤️ I think we need to hold on to every little ray of light now, and hopefully this will see us through till things become easier for us ❤️

As we said earlier, there is a lot of pain that people have to go through on life, and whilst arguably losing a child is the worst kind of pain, I don't think anyone goes through life without any bruises. Some may seem to have it easy, but no one knows what's around the corner and the now seemingly perfect lives one day may come crashing down.

So we have to make the most of the little positive moments, and the big ones too, cause they make it all worthwhile, regardless of what happens to us. Xxx

Yeah thanks @Mumlili8 When he gets like that he won’t even discuss things and then if I show weakness he takes that as proof he is right! I’m home today anyway which is nice as I think I was exhausted. He has called and texted saying he wants to talk about things so hopefully we will do that. It’s a very emotional thing for us and losing our DD is still quite fresh really. I think we are both struggling a bit but maybe also just tiredness etc makes things worse! x

Hope everyone else is having a good day. It’s Friday and all I have to do today is go to book club 🙂

Ladies, after some advice. I've worked out if we TTC this month and succeed, I'd be around 7-8 weeks just before Christmas. I know I want to have an early scan then and part of me is concerned if things go wrong again and the entire Christmas period will be difficult and upsetting. What would you do, TTC regardless or give it a break? Also, I'm about to have a promotion interview within the next 2 weeks (i.e. extra adrenaline) and next month might be particularly challenging in terms of not drinking and people asking questions (although perhaps thet wouldn't as they're aware of my MMC)...not sure what to do xxx

😔 AF arrived 2 days early. Gutted

Hi everyone.

@MrsMGE trust your instincts re what you would like to do. I've taken two months off TTC and it's been the right decision in multiple ways. I'm at a big family do at the moment with a glass of wine and cured meats and enjoying the opportunity to feel relaxed and not worried about either the 2WW or early pregnancy. Personally taking the break has been great mentally for both of us, and we're now looking forward to getting back to TTC after a rest which we definitely needed after 2 MCs in close succession. Everyone's situation is different, but for me having a brief pause was a good call.

@Mumlili8 sorry to hear AF is here. I hope this is the cycle that brings everything you've dreamed of.

@ReeRi how are things with your DH today?

@MrsG3 thanks for sharing the lovely rainbow story. I certainly hope we all see that sunshine soon.

@LASandOtto hope you're ok and having a good weekend

Hey @Avocuddles. Wine and cured meats sound amazing! Right up my street. How is your weekend going?

Thanks for your advice. I've made my decision and bought a tri-pack of Ballycastle from Aldi (is anyone else on this thread a fan too? I hope so, as I find it better than Bailey's!) and I'm planning on thoroughly enjoying it over Christmas, alongside some lovely red wine 😊🍷🥃 I'm definitely getting into the Christmas spirit now.

Have a nice, relaxing Saturday everyone xxx

@MrsMGE Aldi booze is great! Weekend is good thanks. Had a bit of a disaster yesterday as I'd ordered a big food shop to the cottage with the intention that I'd cook for ten, however when I finally spoke to the customer services team forty minutes after the allotted time I found out that all deliveries had been cancelled for the night due to the weather and flooding! Thankfully DH had only had one small drink by that point so we drove five or so miles across country to source takeaway pizza, plus cooked breakfast stuff from a Co-Op, so disaster was averted but I was pretty stressed out..... Thankfully the decision to hold off TTC this month meant I could calm my nerves with lovely wine - if we'd been trying I'd have been in the 2WW this weekend which would have been hard work.
We intend to try again next cycle, I'm feeling pretty nervous at the thought but what will be will be.
Forgot to add @MrsMGE good luck for the interview! I hope you smash it x

@MrsMGE I agree re trust your instincts. Good luck with your promotion.

@Avocuddles I’m pleased you’re feeling good having a break from TTC. DH and I were fine the next day. I think we were both tired and found the talk about adoption very emotive and it made us think about all sorts. He said he thinks we should take a more relaxed approach to TTC ie just have fun and have sex when we want to. I’m agree but thinking obviously I’m going to push for BD when I know I’m fertile 🙄

DH is having his procedure end of this month though so it could be that we end up not being able to TTC the cycle after that

@Mumlili8 Sorry AF is here. Fingers crossed for this cycle 🤞

Hope everyone else is ok x