TTC after pregnancy loss 32 - the penguin huddle

[ReeReeR]

New thread 🐧🐧🐧

I have accidentally created a thread 33 as well but will delete that!

@TwittleBee that is amazing news, wishing you the best of luck going forward xxx

@TwittleBee I do see what you mean. It’s just rubbish. I hope your scan goes as well as it can.

@Sunflower1608 Thank you. I think you are right that people are judged whatever happens but it’s not so much being judged as a mum or not a mum as such. I don’t even know how to explain it but I feel I have experienced something huge and there’s a small group of people who know some of what I’m going through but it’s not like the normal groups of those with kids and those without. I think it’s more about relating to people and them relating to me.

@Anny27 I’m not surprised you didn’t know what to say... I go to Sands meetings and that helps. I made a friend at one of the meetings (she is the one who is pregnant again and laughed when I said I’d had a mc in August) and another one online through Sands who I message most days but she is pregnant too so I feel a little left behind at times. I do feel part of the baby loss community though unfortunately.

@TwittleBee yay! So pleased for you x

Sooo many interesting discussions in the same time it's hard to keep up!

So I'll leave a general message having read most of the recent messages.

I wholeheartedly agree that we are constantly judged as women (or at least it might feel like it). It seems we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. I am only now, at 33, fully adhering to not giving a fuck about other people's opinions. They really don't know us. They are not in our shoes, no one is. Let's just all focus on living our own lives the way we want to live them and do our best to stay away from people who make us feel inadequate or inferior. We really do not need this, full stop, and especially not now.

Secondly, to all the ladies struggling with tough times now, whether due to various symbolic dates or otherwise feeling down - I hear you. I have many days like these too. I'm learning to listen to and acknowledge my own feelings instead of running away and desperately trying to be happy and enjoy life or pretend to do so. The truth is we're now carrying something difficult and heavy in our hearts forever, and there will be times when it is tough, or even extremely painful. These times may be very long and dark. But I say to myself, what choice do I have - do I give up, and what, die? Or do I get through it, kindly and gently at times like these, and wait for them to pass so I can still have better days, which hopefully at some point will turn into better months and years. The truth is we do have a lot to be grateful for. I am personally finding the emptiness of losing my first and only baby excruciatingly painful, I wish I could have a child to go back home to. But I don't, sadly, and there's nothing on the horizon. But I am sure that we all have that one person, family member, pet, hobby, someone or something in this life that makes it truly worth living. So I try to focus on them when I feel really low. I wish things were different for all of us. They won't change immediately, but we ought to have trust and faith that eventually they will. If we're lacking it temporarily, we have each other to refill ourselves ❤️ So keep your chins up, as much as you can, you are doing amazing, every day xxx

Hi ladies, for some reason I stopped receiving updates from this thread so apologies that I went off radar for a while. It looks like there's been lots of chat and I haven't managed to catch up on all of it but I did just see your update @TwittleBee, congratulations!

I am currently in the 2ww following an FET on Saturday. Not feeling particularly positive about it currently but time will tell I guess. Feel like my bladder is going to explode from the amount of water I've been drinking today

I saw some chat about a book club. Sounds like a great idea but I take an age to read a book so not sure I'd be the best person to join.

What a lovely group thread, I really needed to read some of these stories today. I am currently having a massive bleed, presume another miscarriage and it feels good to have read your stories and feel a bit more hopeful about the future.

I will definitely be back here once I've got my head and heart back together.

@TwittleBee Delighted for you, fingers crossed everything goes well now ❤️🤞

I'm finding the talk about who we are as people, and as women, quite refreshing. There's been so much thinking and talk about the sad times that it's nice not to forget that there is life outside of the sad space of baby loss. Let's continue with all the recommendations, I am all ears! 😊

Also, just to cheer you up, I asked my DH this morning what food my new hair colour reminds him of, thinking he'll say honey, Biscoff spread or something along those lines. My DH: "Hmmm, top of the oven baked lasagne? You know, the melted cheese?" 😳

I despair sometimes 😂 Laughed so hard I cried! Xxx

@TwittleBee that's so wonderful to hear! Really made me happy!

@MrsMGE I was in tears of laughter. I almost choked on my pasta as I was reading 😂😂😂😂 I'll never be able to go to the hairdresser again to discuss blond tones. 'Yes, I'd like to go for lasagne colour, when it's been in the oven, you know....' hahaha! This was made my evening!!!!

Your words earlier on women were so great as well, really, wonderful words that I'm sure didn't just lift me but everyone else on this chat as well. What a great point of view and way of thinking....

I'm just relaxing watching David Attenborough on the BBC, new One Planet... loving it!!!

Came home late from work today as was in a client meeting and when I opened the door and got into our living area, DH had laid out our yoga mats, lit candles, put on white noise and was running around in Lycra (this part I could've done without) ready to do a yoga session with me. How thoughtful and sweet.... lucky me!

Have a nice evening xxx

@LASandOtto Thank you ❤️ Well, great minds think alike, DH and I just did the 15 min HIIT workout with Joe Wicks. Not as relaxing, but helps with keeping the spirit up too! I had a heart to heart with him and said that I've got too much on my mind to worry about training and exercise routines and he just said "Don't worry, I'll look after us doing something every day." Bless him. It's normally me with a lot of get up and go, but since I'm running low on motivation and exercise isn't my priority now, it's nice that he took initiative & he's making me work harder too, which is great. Your DH sounds so lovely, what a thoughtful thing to do ❤️ Team workouts are the way to go. In fact, I thought today that when we have a baby and s/he grows up, we can exercise together to plant the good seeds early on. I think it's so important, it will make their lives easier when they grow up. How was your Monday, apart from it being busy? xxx

@MrsMGE @LASandOtto I am very impressions at you working out with your partners! The idea of family team workouts is great. I have quite a negative and almost fearful relationship with exercise, I was a clumsy and awkward child and a relatively early developer so I was never the sporty type growing up, music has always been my release but playing the flute doesn't have quite the same health benefits! 😂

I loved the lasagne analogy, and reading your motivational words really cheered me up. This group has definitely lead me to understand how strong our collective experiences make us. Through the good times and the bad we soldier on whilst also holding down careers, maintaining relationships, supporting others. I am proud to be part of this tribe of warrior women and you have certainly helped me to keep going through the toughest of days.

@NotMaryWhitehouse welcome to the group! So sorry you've found yourself here. When you feel ready we're all here to listen to your story / provide a shoulder to cry on when you just want to rage at the world.

@Marmite83 sorry you aren't feeling positive after your FET but fingers crossed this will be the one! How long do you have to wait before you can text?

So I was livid last night after a text conversation with sister in law. She messaged asking if I had a nice weekend which I knew instantly was a 'why haven't you congratulated us yet' hint after they'd shared their news with DH and his mum and grandparents on Sunday. I told her about my weekend and offered my congratulations, hoping she'd reply with something at least slightly sensitive to our situation. Instead she told me that she's 9 weeks and hasn't had a scan yet so only telling immediate family, and that it's exciting but going to be add hard having two relatively close together but she couldn't wait longer due to being geriatric (40). The word lol was used three times in the first message alone, she then went on to tell me that she's being deemed high risk this time on the grounds of her age but that she's not worried, she just thinks its 'quite funny'!
This really riled me as I would have hoped she would have a least the slightly level of tact but clearly not. Even before my miscarriages my pregnancies were very high risk and not just due to being over 35 - I've been told that without heparin treatment my likelihood of having another serious (and potentially fatal) blood clot would be over 25% - definitely not something to 'lol' over in my opinion! DH hadn't told me at the time as he knew I'd find it as upsetting as him but they announced the pregnancy to the family by saying to DS1 'where's the baby' and getting him to point to SILs stomach. I feel quite uncomfortable thinking about the fact that they've trained him to do this when they haven't even had a scan yet. I guess I just feel very jealous not only of the pregnancy, but also of their naive optimism and excitement. I don't think I felt like that even before the first loss and will certainly never get to experience it now I know how difficult not only getting pregnant but also staying pregnant can be! I just wish that those who knew the ins and outs of our journey could be slightly more thoughtful and considerate of our emotions but DHs brother and his wife are clearly too wrapped up in their own happiness to do that......

@Avocuddles I was clumsy and awkward at PE and hated any kind of group exercise, team sports or running (the clues why I hated it are all there...). But, I then went to ballet school and I loved it. Absolutely loved it. In hindsight, I now understand it isn't about everyone being good in the same things, otherwise we'd all be Olympic champions. It's about picking your niche that makes you not only fitter, but also happier and stronger - this is when it turns into a part of your life without making much effort. I did lots of similar things in my adult life, I danced, roller-skated, skated, did yoga, pilates. I actually really enjoyed all this. But an office job and long hours took its toll and now I know I have a size or two to drop ideally. I wouldn't say I love HIIT at all, but it works and if DH can do the hard work of encouraging me when I'm lazy or finding excuses not to, then that's the job done! Xxx

@avocuddles sounds tough with your SIL! I also cringe a bit when people tell their very young children before confirming everything is okay, but then again thats probably my pessimism after a loss!

Saying that, i hope that I am going to whole heartedly get just as excited as i did with my next pregnancy as i did with my first as i'll be just as sad if anything goes wrong so may as well experience some joy too!

I'm so sorry that I've not been on here since I joined and have missed so much, I'm hoping to catch up a bit over the next few evenings!

As a quick update since having medical management after MMC on 1st October I ended up back in hospital twice after haemorrhaging, then I had to go back to A&E last week after haemorrhaging again and then I had to have surgical management, it's been an emotionally and physically draining few weeks but this week the bleeding FINALLY seems to be stopping and the iron tablets are helping me feel much more human again. So think it's time to put my brave positive pants on and look forward 😀

I've got an appointment with my GP on 18th November about having an MMR vaccine (apparently that's something that flagged up on my antenatal tests) and not sure if I'll need any more blood tests to check blood count/iron levels etc. Is there anything useful I should be asking her at this appointment?

Quickly saw your update @TwittleBee and so pleased it's good news for you and @MrsMGE I saw your really positive message a bit further down which really cheered me up. Also the lasagne comment...hilarious!

As I said, so sorry I haven't kept up with everything since I joined but hopefully things will be better going forward. Lots of love and hugs to everyone one here xxxx

Sorry you find yourself here @NotMaryWhitehouse, you're very welcome though, we're here when you're ready.

Some people just don't think, do they @Avocuddles. I have a very close friend who knows about both my mmcs and also our fertility issues but was still sitting there on Friday evening, when out for dinner with a couple of other friends, saying how she was so glad she'd never have to go through labour again and laughing. I know she just wasn't thinking but it still made me feel a bit aggravated. Telling a little one they're going to have a sibling so early on is madness in my opinion but each to their own I guess. I'm very glad we hadn't told our dd, she absolutely loves babies and just wouldn't have understood when I had the mmc.

Sorry you've been having such a crappy time @MrsG3, I really hope things improve for you soon, it sounds like they are starting to.

@TwittleBee this is such amazing news, wishing you all the very best for the next 9 months xxxx

@Avocuddles wow she does seem quite self absorbed in her excitement. I'm sorry she's not being very sensitive. In my first pregnancies I had the same level of naive excitement. Even in my last, I never thought I would be part of that percentage where it would happen to me. But I had a friend who had has fertility issues and tried to be sensitive to how she felt. Well done from r dealing with her with dignity.

On the subject of telling young children, I'm so glad I didn't tell mine. They're currently going the JG through a phase worrying about death, them dying and me dying after their great nana passed 3months ago. I've spoken very openly to them about it, and reassured them. I think the loss of the baby would have caused them lots of undue stress.
However my friend told her 2.5yr old daughter I was pregnant 2 month ago and nothing else was mentioned. And yesterday she piped up with aunty j has a baby in her tummy. Her .I'm was so apologetic and really awkward desperately telling her I don't. I obviously reassured her it was ok and explained the baby was with the angel's. She tearfully went "oh no poor baby, poor poor aunty J" and gave me a hug.

I cried afterwards as in all honesty it was the most genuine, heartfelt and innocent acknowledgment and response to my miscarriage.

@Sunflower1608 what a beautiful response from your friend's child. Like you say they captured perfectly all that anyone needs to say when they find out that someone has experienced the loss of a pregnancy.... I'm glad your earlier pregnancies went well and you managed to experience them with excitement. I would be lying if I said I wasn't jealous that you have had that experience, but know exactly how painful it must have been for you when things went wrong and feel sad that your outlook on pregnancy and relationship with your body have been irreversibly changed. Nonetheless I hope you try to stay positive and hopeful that you will fall pregnant again soon with your rainbow baby.

@Marmite83 I hope your DD gets a brother or sister soon. Our nephew is only 21 months so I'm not sure if he'll fully comprehend the baby growing inside his mum, but I still think it was pretty early on to tell him. I know everyone is different but I think I would personally wait until I started showing before I introduced the idea.

@MrsG3 I'm glad things finally seem to be settled and you feel ready to put your positive pants on! You really have had an awful few weeks and deserve some fun and happiness.

@anny27 your positive attitude is great! I definitely need some of that to rub off on me...

I had some unexpected tears at lunchtime today as I was mindlessly catching up with social media when a (beautiful) pregnancy announcement from DHs cousin and her wife appeared. They had taken photos holding up cards at every stage of the IVF process through to the 12 week scan, and made it into a video complete with a gorgeous song. I had to go hideaway in a toilet cubicle for a while as seeing their love and happiness shine out throughout the video made me feel so desperately sad that after 2 losses DH and I will never share that experience..... With all these babies in the family it feels like the next year is going to be another tough one.

Evening ladies and sorry for the radio silence, just been catching up on the thread.

@MrsG3 I hope you're ok, sounds very tough what you've been through.

@Avocuddles it would be very difficult to see such a video. It's hard to think this could be you one day, but don't think it won't be. There's every change you will have your baby and hopefully, soon!

I imagine an IVF journey is hard and preceded by lots of unsuccessful months of TTC before or other health related implications. I can see why some want to celebrate good news openly.

I for one never would as a personal choice after all I've been through and know other women have endured after being on here. I think social media can add to our already existing anxieties, people are on there broadcasting life in it's perfect happy moments and let's be truthful, it's not all glitter and unicorns! But it gets distorted by the fact that most are just finding it necessary to share with everyone else just to get validation maybe, that like or comment, to make them feel good.

Anyway @Avocuddles you will be a mummy one day!

I hope everyone else is as ok as they can be given all the various situations everyone is in!

@MrsMGE wrote it so beautifully for us all, about how we as women are always trying to fit into all these moulds, but the only mould you have to fit it's your own.

I've been on a day trip for work to York which I loved - never been before, had a speed walking tour through town led by my colleague, and just so badly wanted to stop and meander but no change as we were late already. Thinking of going for a long weekend though end of November!

Just wanted to say am thinking of you all x

Thanks @LASandOtto. They are a same sex couple so the journey to parenthood hasn't been that straightforward (and has been very expensive!) for them and I'm over the moon that their first cycle has worked out and completely understand why they want to celebrate and share that news! I personally wouldn't do the whole pregnancy announcement thing based on my own experiences, however I might let photos be posted of me in later stages as think a bump is a beautiful thing and if I made it that far I would be very proud to show it off!

York is lovely and definitely a great place for a weekend away. We were there last week, we live on the direct train line so should really make more effort to visit. There is a big Christmas market there so if you plan a return trip it would be worth timing it for then!

Hope we all find our glitter and unicorns soon....

Definitely @Avocuddles. Everyone is entitled to live their life as they wish. I'm sure they're very happy as they should be after such a journey.

My close friends who are both pregnant right now - one of them voice notes a lot with me on WhatsApp and she tells me all about how she feels (sick and tired) and what they've got plans and yes, I think because I come across as very strong to others, they're not so mindful of how their words may impact me. I'm really happy for them of course but my other friend since knowing of my second MC has not spoken to me at all, the opposite, probably because she doesn't want to hurt me by telling me anything.

Regarding social media posts, I for one hardly post on social media anymore. I deleted Facebook over a year ago, I found myself just filling gaps or times by scrolling through the feed as if it was the news or something, I didn't gain anything from it and one day decided it was time to close my account. Many people I wasn't in touch with anymore, didn't see anymore, yet was following but for what? After deleting it I found more time to more actively be in proper contact with those friends I did still have an active relationship with. I still have Instagram but again, I rarely post, maybe an odd nature shot on a walk, a holiday snap, but things that are quite neutral.

I once read somewhere 'may your life be as great as it looks on Instagram' and that's so true...

We'd probably all like an answer to whether we will be holding our baby in our arms soon, one day, but the unknown and uncertainty is also what makes us persevere, makes us keep going. We have hope!

Hugs xx

Hey @Avocuddles, I would have cried if I gad seen this kind of video too. I avoid pregnancy announcements, deleted Facebook and muted pregnant people or pregnancy-related accounts on Instagram. Strangely, like @LASandOtto said, I don't miss Facebook at all. I used to think it was useful because I have friends and family living in various countries, but actually WhatsApp is perfectly sufficient. And it's better for your MH.

I definitely won't be sharing my next pg on social media, if/when it happens. Everyone's personal choice, but I don't feel like making cute baby announcements after losing my first one. In some ways, I've never been a baby shower and certainly not a gender reveal kind of person, to me these things are "oh so American" and I'm just far too European for this, I find it over the top and actually perhaps naive after what's happened? But that's everyone's personal preference, I understand if some people like to share things.

@Sunflower1608 I choked up a bit when I read your post. It's such a precious reaction ❤️ Bless her heart.

@MrsG3 Thank you and glad I cheered you up a bit. I hope you feel better soon, sounds like a real nightmare. Hopefully onwards and upwards for you now.

Have a good night everyone xxx

Oh @TwittleBee I hadn’t seen your update when I replied. Gentle congratulations to you! I hope everything goes as it should

@Avocuddles How insensitive of your SIL. Maybe she kept making the geriatric point because she felt uncomfortable? But quite insensitive and selfish of her to seek out your congratulations.

The video would have upset me too. I think others are right in deleting Facebook. I still have it but have unfollowed so many people who have posted about pregnancy or their young babies as it’s too much. Everything reminds me not only that I’m not pregnant and might not have that again but also that I was pregnant and had a baby and all the love and happiness I had at that time. It’s so sad for me to see that in others and think of how that ended for us.

I’m feeling a bit sad but I’m still in bed as I’m working from home today as we had a bonfire at home last night and I didn’t want to have to get up too early. Should get up and log on by 9 though really. Anyway I’m sure I’ll be fine once I get up

@LASandOtto I can relate to what you say about people thinking you are strong and so maybe not being careful what they say or do. I don’t talk about my daughter much so I think for many people it’s “business as usual” and to a large degree that’s how I think I prefer it but sometimes things are said and done which make me think no thought at all has been given to me.

@MrsMGE I didn’t share on Facebook with my first pregnancy as I’m not a big social media sharer anyway but especially now I wouldn’t. I did have a baby shower but didn’t want one as I am superstitious etc and never took for granted that I would bring abet her baby home (not sure why). A couple friends insisted (they had been talking about it since I told them at 20 weeks) and in the end I agree to an afternoon tea at Betty’s two weeks before my due date but obviously the baby died a couple of weeks later. In a way though it was nice that we had that little celebration of her while she was alive.

@Sunflower1608 oh that’s so sweet of you’re friend’s daughter

Hi All,

How is everyone doing?

I have found out a few of my friends have had miscarriages recently, but not through them, through others and it is not common knowledge.

It is strange, I would love for us all to be open about it and I have thought about just posting about my experience in our group chat, in the hope that maybe the others would then share their experiences as well, but at the same time I also don't want people to know we are TTC etc.

It is hard xx

@ReeRi You sound quite down. Do you have people looking after you, a counsellor perhaps, or do you think this might help? You've been through a lot and I completely understand it's hard to be positive. I'm going through many, many downs, and looking forward to starting my counselling sessions next year. I don't know if you agree, but as a lawyer, I have had this burning sense of injustice, unfairness and anger at the fact that I've lost my child, why this has happened in the first place, why this has happened to me, and why the hell I can't do anything to change this, I can't fight for the right cause, work harder to win this case, nothing is going to change this outcome. It feels extremely helpless which is not in my nature. I think by nature, we tend to be controlling, organised, we have a plan in our head and a plan B for when things go wrong, there's always contingency planning. But in this case, this has gone out of the window. Our babies are dead, there's no contingency. Even if we get pg again, there's nothing to "do better" or "work harder" on to guarantee a success. There isn't even a guarantee we will get pg again.

It's bloody hard. I'm working on myself every single day to switch off my usual thinking and understand there was no reason for this, it was a tragedy, it shouldn't have happened, and we didn't deserve this. It was a particularly awful case of bad luck that is completely outside of our control, and we can't erase and rewind. What it also means though, is that we can have this good luck that a lot of women have, and things may work out. It means that we need to let go because it really doesn't depend on us. And that we shouldn't feel down about this. Firstly because our children would not want to see us utterly devastated for the rest of our lives. Secondly because we didn't do anything wrong. And we won't necessarily always have this bad luck, you know. We gotta think in a way which makes lives easier for us, because it's sufficiently hard to grieve your own child, and we cannot let this overwhelm us completely. Take care of yourself xxx

@MrsMGE I think asking why is normal, why me, why us. There are no answers sometimes, often even. You look around yourself and yes, shit things happen to good people. Sickness, illness, infertility, theft, the list seems endless.

I had to stop asking myself these questions as there's no answers right now and I felt so drained and lacking any energy because all my thought was spent on wanting answers.

All the above mentioned situations take away the innocence and to some degree positivity away from us, because we've seen the other side now and it's never going to be forgotten. We just need to find varying ways (exercise, therapy, talking, sharing, mediation, yoga, you name it) to help ourselves get through this and not emerge bitter, resentful, angry, envious, disillusioned.

I really feel for all of us in all our varying situations we've found ourselves in and which have united us here on this thread and I'm so glad for this support. Others who make the situation seem more 'it's not just me' and who give strength, compassion, a listening ear (always), wise words, virtual hugs and support. I know we've got all friends, family, a support in our life everyday, but I cannot credit this thread enough for all it has done to make me feel as good as I can feel about it all today.

You'll never be the same you after what we have individually experienced, and whilst you'd never think there's any 'good' that can be deducted from all this pain and sadness we experience(d), it has grown my awareness again, opened up my horizon further, humbled me and reminded me to appreciate life. Life is beautiful, and I am not wishing time away because it can be short, it can be tough, but I'm grateful nonetheless for every moment.

Every single woman on this thread deserves nothing but a happy ending, if there were such a thing as 'deserving' being a part to play in this, which it hasn't. Xx