There was a viroid named Just, who was all wanton and lust. But her fanjo's a numpty, so she named it country, and they have a skittletits bust! It's JSing 50!!

[lildottie]

Fred rules (copied and adapted from previous Fred)

1. Thou shalt shag as much as humanly possible in order to get upduffed.
2. Thou shalt not partake of OPKs, temping, or charting.
3. Thou shalt keep symptom spotting to a minimum.
4. Thou shalt share with your fredmates where needed.
5. Thou shalt not be offended by the word vagina.

JSing lingo

ERTD = Evil Red Tide of Dooooooommmmmmm. Or AF to most others. Also known as 'the witch', 'bitch witch' and 'that one with the red shiny convertible'

Viroid = This is you, dear poster. This is from the first JS thread when someone tried to type 'ladies' and it autocorrected to 'Viroids' - so there you go!

Pant snot = Egg white cervical mucus.

Doing a kitten = Getting upduffed soon after joining (warning: may induce envy in other posters).

POAS = Pee On A Stick (of the pregnancy detecting kind, not from a tree). Also known as PIAR (Pee In A Ramekin - cos we're posh birds innit), or PIATLH (Tea light holder), PIAWG (Wine glass) or anything else you care to pee in! PONF = Pee on Nigel Farage (Self explanatory, who wouldn't?)

ROC = Receptacle of Choice - what one chooses to use for the task of POAS. Optional decorations include photographs of controversial political leaders.

JIAC = Jizz in a Cup. Preferable to jizz on the carpet or jizz in the eye. This one's for the lucky men in our lives.

Shagging like Something = JSing like a teenage nymphomaniac.

Giving a hooya = Giving a much needed slap to a fellow poster in danger of slipping into ttc obsession. Warning - this may happen to you if you start trying to POAS at 5dpo. PUT. THE. PISSY. STICK. DOWN. IT'S TOO EARLY!

Contraband (or Cuntraband) = Of COURSE none of us EVER partake of any silly OPKs or temp charting. They are Contraband.

Icing = ovulating. Another autocorrect development!

Getting your Cape on = planning some serious pouncing on DH/DP

SOTM = Shagger of the Month. Awarded with varying regularity to those viroids who go above and beyond EOD shagging in pursuit of that BFP

TWOT - Two Weeks of Torture. AKA Schroedingering!
TWPU - Two Week Piss Up!

Keeping your gingers = fingers crossed, yet another autocorrect development! Shortened to 'gx'

Doing A Lemon = Testing WAAAAAAAY to early!

Miroid - The male compadre of a viroid

Cat - Compulsory

Skittletits - Killer molten painful tits and nipples

Ghost jizz/goat jazz - When the amazing foof sucks up all the jizz - achieved when coming at the same time/nearly the same time.

The link to Part 49 is <a class="break-all" href="//www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/2399734-These-be-our-very-Cs-our-Us-N-our-Ts-proudly-JSing-their-way-to-poetic-BFPs-in-49-Together-we-Shall-take-off-our-robes-to-shag-put-on-our-crowns-to-copulate-we-have-immortal-longings-in-us?" target="_blank">HERE</a>

The current Grads Fred is <a class="break-all" href="//www.mumsnet.com/Talk/antenatal_clubs/2407126-Avoiding-accidental-golden-showers-and-unsolicited-bump-touching-while-enjoying-the-gamble-of-the-poo-lottery-and-apparently-getting-more-massive-by-the-day-JSer-grads-31" target="_blank">HERE</a>

The current Mumming Fred is <a class="break-all" href="//www.mumsnet.com/Talk/postnatal_clubs/2355867-Weve-no-time-for-JSing-Were-battling-green-nappies-sleepless-nights-x-box-playing-men-and-trying-to-hide-our-sling-addictions-Fuck-it-lets-do-a-runner-on-a-golf-cart" target="_blank">HERE</a>

The rather nobbish article in which we became a little bit notorious is <a class="break-all" href="//www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/the-dark-side-of-mumsnet-my-shocking-tour-of-the-websites-nether-regions-8905055.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">HERE</a>

The Fred about 'how wooode' our Fred is darlings can be found HERE and <a class="break-all" href="//www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2358940-The-title-of-those-conception-threads-rein-it-in-their-please-ladies?" target="_blank">HERE</a>

Stats sheet is <a class="break-all" href="//www.docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14Ap3NlZ0dP2Rjd1tRdpZ58my-7vZ-oUhevZ-4JROvyg/edit#gid=0" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">HERE</a>

We are the dark side of MN... Welcome!

how do you deal with it lil? It honestly feels like such a one sided relationship. Sometimes I want to scream at him that a baby isn't going to miraculously going to happen!.. But I know I am being unfair on him. If we have sex 3 times in a month, then that's a good month. And it's usually in very quick succession, so if I get my ovulation times slightly off then we don't even have a chance at conceiving that month.

Stitcher, Fluffy. I'm a stitcher. Not a sewer

A-ha! That makes more sense Chat!

Hi viroids

Thanks so much for the shout outs and support. Really don't know what I'd do without this Fred.

Got the faintest faint line on a super sensitive boots test and had a bit of tummy ache today. Bleeding less. Feeling extremely tired so dosing up on floradix.

Fluffy I love those little sock monkies!! Ideas of what to do with them... Children's charity perhaps? Raffle prizes for fetes and the like?

Sorry to hear your DH isn't feeling too sexual of late. Have you asked him about it? DH and I sometimes go through dry spells - usually if we have busy weekends (weeks are always busy) - it's easy to not feel as connected. How long have you been together?

5hell sounds like it's time to get yo' freak on. Get yo' freak on. Gettcha-gettcha-gettcha freak on.

ahem

Feathered gx everything is going well!

At risk of outting myself hopefully not likely as I haven't hidden much about myself so far I work for a charity which supports adults with learning disabilities. We made the sock monkeys in an art class, which most of the people I work with struggled with. The idea is to build up a stock of things we can sell at craft fairs and fundraising events to raise some money, although the idea it is them themselves who have made the items we are selling, so not really something I could sell on their behalf. Could definitely donate to raffles, we have a big fundraising event upcoming and we are always in need of prizes!

DH knows where I stand. To an extent, it's always been like this. We have been through such long dry spells where I have taken it upon myself to not make the effort and to see if that will kick start him into making some effort himself, but it never does. He wants a child, or so he tells me, yet he doesn't put any work into making it happen, it's all down to me.

I love him. I really do. But I have married a child. He takes very little responsibility. He won't do a food shop himself. If he doesn't know how to do something he comes running to me instead of trying to figure it out himself. He spends all his spare time playing computer games. He has no initiative.

I do love him. But I dare to think.. is this it?

I'm so sorry viriods. I like to think of myself as a positive person, and this isn't something I would dare discuss with anyone in RL. I do love my DH, and usually I can put up with his faults but I think the negativity of failed conception is playing on my mind a bit.

I'm just being so negative at the moment, but I hope the thoughts don't last long as it really isn't like me.

Oh Fluffy

fluffy it is ok to have a down day. Gosh sometimes my DP drives me absolutely batty... He really does. I have a really great therapist and back when I was still trying to figure out if I could make it work with XH she asked me to think about the following idea

"What if this is as good as it gets?"

In that instance ultimately I left. But in my current situation, even the darkest times... I can see that what I have is indeed, more than enough.

Still want another baby, though!

Fluffy think of why you married him and got together with him in the first place.

I can well imagine how ttc might put pressure on your marriage but presumably you can see him as the father of your children? I'm sure anxiety around ttc can't help.

DH and I have ups and downs (downs usually due to his working hours). So far the whole ttc/mc experience has brought us closer together (although I did end up being demanding over sex....even when he had a sore willy from DDT too much).

Do you have conversations about sex/video games fixation/being more adult with him?

Sending hugs.

Thanks Sky. Im honestly not usually so pessimistic about things, because I know I do have it good. If anything, it makes me feel more awful when I do actually moan about something because I know there are people who have it much, much worse. My DH is a good man, he really is. He tries his best (but has been babied his whole life) and has a low sex drive. It does just get on my nerves at times, but I know I am with my soul mate. Again, I'm sorry for the rant, because it gives a completely inaccurate one sided view of how things are.

feathered, we do have discussions with his video games. He uses that at his chill-out time, such as like I do with the internet/mumsnet etc. So I can't really argue with that.

We have had some disagreements. DH does work drastically different hours than what I do, so our bedtimes do differ by quite a lot. If I know I am at peak fertility I make effort to "go to bed" at the same time as him, but sometimes he will be up late to complete a level on his video game and so be "too tired" to have sex. He knows how I feel about this though, we have discussed on many occasions.

I think my issue lies with the fact I am too private with my cycle and period etc. I tell him it's a fertile time, but in a very relaxed, blasé way. When I have tested, I haven't told him, so when we haven't been successful he does know. I'm sad because we haven't been successful this month, but I haven't specifically told him so, so really he doesn't know, although I assume he does as I haven't told him otherwise. I only told him I feel my period is coming, but not really shown how much this has affected me.

I know the way around this is to be more honest, but I am a pretty private person around things like my period etc and I don't know if I can just reveal things like that to him..

fluffy I'm going to tell you something that someone told me before DD was born. During childbirth you will pee, poo, and vomit in front of a room full of people you don't know. There is nothing to be embarrassed about. It is just part of having a baby.

You can do this. Talk to him. Or load an app like glow on a device you share so the app can tell him. This is a team sport you're playing. Get him in the game.

fluffy I know where you are coming from. At least 90% of of the time it is me that is initiating sex. I love my DH dearly, and he is my soul mate. But I am certain life would be a little bit better if he pounced on me once in a while!!! I have tried to talk with him about this, and tried to ask him whats wrong / what we need to do to make him want it more, but we don't get anywhere really. For us I think the main problem is tiredness. We work opposite hours Monday-Friday so that one of us is always with DD, so I am sound asleep when he leaves for work, and when I get home he is either in bed, or not far from it. On weekends we obviously have DD during the day, and as we have not long bought a house we spend a lot of time doing DIY and gardening. So by the time DD is in bed we are shattered. DH has spent most of today digging up stuff in the garden, and is already asleep on the sofa. It sucks.....but I just keep telling myself that one day our schedules will be a bit more co-ordinated, so at least we will see each other more often.
I'm not quite sure how to make DH want sex more. He did suggest last week (after I had been asking him for ages what did he want me to do!!) that I wear some sexy underwear etc but considering I am VERY obese I don''t think this will be a good look but I probably won't test this theory out until I have lost a decent amount of weight. I think he does just have a lower sex drive than me though I seem to spend a lot of time lately telling myself that he just doesn't fancy me much anymore, as I am fat but I have no idea how he would increase it? Any ideas oh wise viroids??? Should fluffy and I be hiding zinc in their morning coffee??!! lol

Also, for what its worth, DH used to be a really big gamer. Many hours on the PS4, staying up late to play it. Played games for god knows how many hours in a week. But since we had DD he hasn't played as much. And since we bought our house a few months ago, he has barely played it at all. The playstation is more of a DVD/Blu Ray player now. His priorities have changed. He wants to spend time playing with DD, and he wants to sort out the house and garden. I'm not sure if he will go back to playing games once the DIY is finished, but as long as he has got to the bottom of the to do list by then I'm not too worried

Erm, what is this wet stuff falling from the sky? jizz?

Ladies, you need to find your capes of power. You are strong, beautiful sexy bitches and those menfolk better be grateful. I think you need to assert yourselves and treat them how you wish to be treated. More importantly, treat yourselves how you wish others to treat you, then you are headed in the right direction. They should fall in line soon enough. Like attracts like.

In a way, I'm pretty relieved to know i am not alone! I know Dh will be a good dad. He is a good DH. If I want something done, I tell him (and assuming he doesn't forget) he does it! If the flat needs hoovered, and I tell him, then he will do it. If we need a wash put on, if I ask him he will do it. It's the whole asking part I hate. I feel it is still my responsibility to identify what needs done and then to delegate for it to be done. It would be amazing if something is just done without any input of mine required. But then, that's just men isn't it feminists of MN rejoice! ?

I do need to open up to him. And I will try to, I really will.

Thanks Sky and Cold! x

Do try and be a bit more open about your cycle fluffy - find a way to talk about it that you are comfortable with. DH refers to AF as me being "on the blob" and I refer to my PCOS as my "funky ovaries". If you don't think you can say stuff to him face to face send him a text while he's/your at work to tell him you're in ther fertile window. Send him an e-mail with links to websites to teach him about fertile window - I sent DH a little graph!!

Agree with sky - childbirth is quite undignified, so its worth while getting a bit more comfortable with DH and the yucky stuff. I originally had plans that when I was in labour DH would have to stay at the head end, as I thought it would put him off sex for life......what he actually did was stay at the end of the bed, and watched DD being born (he was rubbing my leg, and offering words of encouragement)!!!!

When it comes to bodily functions, DH and I are pretty open. So there really isn't a reason for me to be so secretive. I will be open with him, he needs to know what's happening with me.

fluffy when DP and I first started trying he felt pressure to perform, which he found unromantic. Then after lots of talks tears he realized that he just needed to get on with it. I downloaded Glow on my phone and IPad so Glow now tells him about my cycle and I do my best to just enjoy sex with him. I initiate it a lot more than he does and he loves it. He actually caught me off guard the other night by making the first moveand pretty much all of thevones after too and the change in routine was very stimulating.

PS cold don't be so hard on yourself woman! It took me like 3.5 years to lose most of my baby weight... Still got another 5lbs to go but fuck it. Try to talk to yourself with the same compassion you would give your bff. If you want to lose weight do it because you love your body, not because you hate it. I don't mean to preach... I had eating disorders for more than a decade... The only thing that helped me feel truly in control was loving myself. Sorry if that sounds super trite!

I need to be hard on myself sky. I was overweight when I fell pregnant with dd, then still put on another 3st while pregnant. Only lost 7lbs in 3 years (and dd weighed 7lbs 2!!)
I am trying to lose weight, for myself mainly. But I am trying to do it sensibly at the moment. Cutting out snacking and trying to limit wheat (it makes me bloat and feel yucky). Still, I need to lose about 6st just to get me in the healthy bmi range......upside is I only need to lose about 3.5st to be the size I was when dh and I got together!!
Trying to log all my food in mfp at the moment to make me more aware of what I am eating. And need to make more of an effort to meal plan. I'll get there. Super conscious of what I do in front of dd. I don't want to give her any bad habits!!

And no that didn't sound trite sky. It's very sensible and true. You do need to learn to at least like yourself before you can look after yourself properly. Most of the time I am ok. I know I need to lose weight for health reasons but have reverse body dysmorphia and don't think I look too bad ....... we don't have many mirrors in the house. On occasions my hormones go haywire and I hate myself for about 50 different reasons!! Thankfully those episodes don't last too long now - I give myself a stern talking to!!

fluffy sorry I've been mia since earlier.you are definitely not alone. my dh very rarely initiates sex. for two years we've had an agreement that we DTD from cd10 rod until I ovulate. once my chart confirms ov on ff we stop. he still complains every cycle that he's empty and too tired and not in the mood! when we first started ttc I tried to be laid back about when we had sex but he blew me off so much and we were getting low scores on ff. i sat him down about 5 months in and explained exactly how the female cycle works, the hormones, the 2 sides of the cycle, counting cycle days, the tww, temping, opks - the lot. I also told him about smep which is why we have done EOD from cd10. we do try to do extra once I get pos opk. since then he has been better and we regularly get high scores on ff. he still complains and never initiates though. it's made harder for him by the fact I have long and irregular cycles and often ov after cd20. so he has to have sex with me 6 times before I even have a chance of the pos opk. this cycle he wanted to start cd14. we started cd13 and I ov on CD FUCKING 15!!!!!! lol. my advice would be start a bit later if ur irregular/long like me, maybe cd12. aim for eod- three days and when you get pos opk leave it where he will see it, or tell him. I pretend I need dh to help me work out if its positive or not
like you I love my dh completely, he is my soul mate and I will never let sex come between us despite our differing tastes and drives. but at the same time I also think is this all it will ever be? it's OK to think that, it's human. because you know what, tomorrow or the day after he'll do something mega sweet and you'll look at him and he will look to you like he can do no wrong - yes he's a man child, but he's your man child!
definitely open up more, not just about your cycle but about how you feel, and how these things are affecting you. maybe you could try and agree that you try and bring intimacy into your relationship in a way that won't lead to sex all the time, like a good old fashioned snog in the kitchrn, or a quick bum squeeze here and there. you will still be the one initiating these things, but if its agreed that it's not a precursor to sex he will hopefully embrace it, and that itself may lead to him finding his desire a bit. if you can,get him to talk to you about what makes him feel pressured, how you can help that or if he has any insecurity about initiating. men are delicate, and rejection is often a big fear however irrational! if you can start opening up and being honest with each other in a non judgemental way that doesn't lead to argument then you will feel more relaxed about his lack of interest and be will feel more understood and will hopefully start to work on those issues.
as for vitamins yes, zinc, selenium and 1000mg vit c. make the coffee decaff (I switched dhs without telling him for 4months. he now mostly drinks decaff and has ditched his 4 a day Pepsi Max habit) and if they drink alot ask them to reduce (not eliminate) it. these things improved my dhs sperm sample significantly by the time we did our ivf fertilisation, they were almost all in normal ranges.
as an old timer at this the most valuable piece of advice I can give you is to keep sight of yourself and your relationship. someone else said this is a team sport - that's so true. being able to talk and get dh "involved" by analysing opks etc has made this whole journey much easier. you don't want to feel you are going through it alone.
and don't forget that just like we expected to get pg the second we had unprotected sex with no contraception, they expected to impregnate is instantly too. the fact you arent pg yet may also be on his mind making him feel inadequate and that there's no point. the first thing the fertility clinic asked is "how often are you having sex" you have to jump the hurdles to get to the finish line.

sorry I've babbled.....if u need someone to chat to I'm happy to pm.

applauds Lil and her fantastic post

Cold I am v overweight too. Now that I'm preg, it's too late to do anything about it really (although the sickness helps with not eating!). My plan is, once I can eat properly again, to just stick with skimming world ideals and try to maintain my weight. Once dc is born (which feels too far away to think about) I want to get slimmer, because I want to be able to play with them on the floor without knackering myself or struggling to lean forwards over my huge stomach. I know it will take a long time. I know there's a chance I won't manage it at all, but I will try. That's All I can ask of myself really.

Thanks for the tip Sky, I'll start showing him my app and see if that helps. He is pretty clueless when it comes to the female cycle, so he might need a little biology lesson.

Cold, I'm also in the obese BMI range, which I know it's going to be helping my fertility. I've got 4 stone to lose to get into the healthy range, 3 stone to be the weight I was when I met DH, and I have had no pregnancy to explain my weight gain! Simple poor eating habits (very much encouraged by the comfort of being in a relationship) and being very lazy. Meal planning really helps for me, but paired with the fact DH will not eat any fruit or vegetables, our meals aren't the healthiest by any means. Homemade curries and pasta dishes are so much better than the ready made alternatives though, so it does make a difference.

lil thank you so much all the advice. Dh doesn't complain too much, only that he is too tired (which is down to his shifts). But I have found a way around it, by initiating a cheeky grope when he's drifted off to sleep (he doesn't mind this, he has told me, I'm not a deviant). He does perform, he has no issues when he get's going but it's the initial getting him to want to do it. I want us to have a more relaxed approach to sex, it does lose the romance a bit when it seems like we are just working to a schedule. And it seems pretty pointless when I don't even know for sure what the schedule is as my cycle is still all over the place and I have no clue what I'm doing! At least if I knew that there were a few times we did it outwith the ovulation times, I would feel we would still have a chance if my cycle didn't go to plan.

I had a chat with him last night, although it wasn't much of a chat. Basically me telling him I was upset and then bursting into tears. I think I scared him more than anything, and he has promised to try harder. He reassured me that it wasn't me, I suppose with my weight being such an issue just now I had thought that might be playing a part in it. I will start involving him more, I honestly don't know what I expect from him. Obviously if I don't tell him I POAS and it's negative, he's not going to know I'm sad about that. We'll see if things improve..

DH is another caffeine addict! Not coffee or energy drinks, but he drinks an obscene amount of Coca-Cola!! There will be no changing that, he loves his soft drinks, but I will encourage him onto others he likes with less caffeine like Sprite or Fanta.

to all you lovely viroids! Not sure what I'd be doing without you x

Un-mumsnetty hugs for all you viroids struggling at the moment!