TTC for 10+ months, part 9

[akuabadoll]

Ladies, number 9. The lucky one.

doll sorry I was busy with the ambush when do you usually ovulate?? 15mm size is good for that time of your cycle, follies usually grow 1-2mm a day, released around 18mm. How big were the other follies and will you have another scan?? If your follies get too big more than 23mm then they are duds. I know that doesn't really help, but if your 15mm gets too big then there is a good chance that the other two will be good uns.
My only experience is on the Gonal F where I was scanned on CD 10 and my follies were 12-16mms, he was worried about the 12mm as he thought it was a little too small and could go either way, oh and on the drugs there were lots of small ones that wouldn't become anything, it was last cycle that was good with 4 follies all around the same size.

Managed to hit Charlie with the tranquillizer gun so he is back in his cage.

lemon (and Hatty) good to see you here. Wishing you well.

Artemis and Mrsden thanks for your input on the follies.

Ladies and chimps don your pith helmets and other anthropological attire for a trip into IVF in the Middle East (based on one doctor but hey)..

Stats for clinic and by age and cost (excessively) promising. What does this really mean? Who knows, but there are only so many things to ask about.

I have no experience of super ovulation and so no history of responding to meds. Not that he asked. I asked about protocols and he said the long protocol is used mostly but not exclusively. He couldn't be drawn on possible advantages of short protocol for older women or lower ovarian reserve, I also asked about low BMI and he didn't seem to get what I was on about, when pushed he said it wasn't relevant. In addition he said "they say" (who they are I'm not sure) that testing for ovarian reserve wasn't always "worth it" in women over 38 which I couldn't get to the bottom of, a 'prove is it the pudding' approach I think.

The only thing he brought up without one of my (leading) questions was numbers involved in ET. A kind of 'we do things like in Europe but...' He would advise 3 or 4 for my age, but its up to me (yes indeed, it is). This was the thing that bothered me most but also something that I can control.

Then...so how, when, how would it work? Well....turn up one week before your period is due and we will go from there and decide on the protocol and move forward. As I couldn't draw him on how the decision of the protocol is taken I'm not sure what would happen then. So that's where I got to.

lemons hurrah that your presentation went well. I am so massively impressed. Sorry to hear about the potential for leakage. Still can't believe how well you are doing.

doll I'm afraid I don't know much about follies, but sounds like they are doing good things? Can't believe your dr didn't explain better.

I am cheering on your follies critter. Come on follies, you can do it!

Welcome back mrsd. My cousin unknowingly chose one of my baby names 2 weeks ago. I felt sick when I heard. Mr gin was tested for the CF gene, but that was all the genetic testing we had. Oh and you may want to know that the consultant recommended Proxeed for mr gin. It's super expensive but worth a shot.

Someone said about sperm fragmentation? Our consultant thought it wasn't worth testing, as in men with mr gin's sperm problems, fragmentation will be high, which probably explains the lack of embies by day 3 for us. She said it's unlikely to be 100% so there's little point testing. I'm not sure how they deal with it, if they do find it. She was of the opinion that it's best just to get on with the icsi and not to muck about with the sperm..

artemis we looked into self funding with the NHS, as I didn't like the idea of private health care . There were no stats on our local hospital as it's not hfea registered. They collect the eggs in the hospital and then your partner has to take them in an incubator up to a private clinic in London, where icsi and later ET are done. For obvious reasons we didn't fancy this.. I did look at a few other London hospitals, but tbh they weren't much cheaper than create.

The hfea website has a list of questions to ask clinics, when chosing one, but I would recommend open days, where they give you most of the info and you can get a feel for the place. For us, location/convenience, type of protocol offered and things like whether they use GA to knock you out during EC were all important to us. Hope that helps. Do ask if you want to know anything else.

buzzy I now have an image of a chimp in some zip up boots :) Glad you are feeling a bit better.

Can't remember what else I wanted to say to people. Oh rabbit any sign of the red bitch??

I think I'm gonna rename my chimp The Duchess, as she is too grumpy and snarly to be a princess. She'll retain critter's lacey dress and banana though and may be a (non rude) pearl necklace. She's behaving today, even when I just got asked for id in Waitrose! FFS I have wrinkles, grey hairs and according to the NHS am an old barren!

X post doll. Hmmmm and blimey at being allowed to put 4 embryos back! Over here it's 3 max and then only if you're over 40. Sounds like you have some tough decisions to make.

X post buzzy thanks again, that's useful. No will not have another scan, this was just a cyst follow up thing so the info was gained just as an aside, as it were. I normally ov at CD 10, 11 or 12, I think two follies were 15 mm, one other perhaps a little bigger.

Gin advised, even (rather than 'allowed') I can't see that I would go over 2, this is just the kind of craziness that puts me off the whole thing. Even though I can say no it makes me wonder about other choices that are more difficult to debate (amounts and types of meds).

Hmm, doll. I'm not sure I'd be filled with confidence by your dr. Of course maybe he's not good at answering questions, are you going to see another dr? What I liked about ours was that he went into a lot of detail and was very willing to explain and answer questions. Of course, I'll reserve judgement until he gets me pregnant.

Gin, proxeed you say? I'm off to google. Did you get some?

Came across this www.drmalpani.com/proxeed.htm did your dr say it worked then gin? I'm not sure if Ill be able to convince dh to takke something without evidence that it works. He moans enough about the multi vit.

For interest the genetic tests dh has had have been chromosome analysis, checking for any deletions on the y chromosome and the full cftr gene mutation check, not just the 36 most common mutations but they're sequencing the whole gene, there's close to 1000 known mutations. Im having this cftr one and I've had the chromosome analysis. The reason the geneticist is focussing on cftr mutation is be ause the urologist couldn't be sure if dh had a vas deferens on his left side. This can be symptom of the mutation. However, dh had an op for hernia as a small boy and it's possible they cut through it then by mistake. We know now he doesn't have on of the common 36 mutations but she says the full test might show something up. I thinks it's rare for the full test to be done. It's quite expensive and time consuming.

Wow doll, 4 embies? Crikey. Bagsie one of your quadruplets I think in my clinic they do 2-3 embies for women over 38, but I'm not sure. I would be googling like crazy. Does the clinic have an email address that you can email with specific questions for the doctor? If you go ahead, I guess you'll just need to ask a lot of questions and be armed with as much information as possible.

lemon you are a hero for giving a work presentation. What a total champ. I'm sorry to hear about the physical aspect, that sounds awful on top of everything else.

gin thanks for the cheers. I rather like the sound of the Duchess! Is she an eccentric dowager duchess, by any chance? I went through a stage of obsessively reading about the dowager duchess of Devonshire, Deborah Mitford, and now imagine your chimp swinging from the chandeliers in Chatsworth.

mrsd sorry to hear about the name. That always hurts a lot. Neal's Yard is a posh natural beauty products company, they do lots of lovely essential oil scented lotions and potions.

buzzy well done for the ambush and glad that you've put Charlie back in his hutch for now. How many days were you on Gonal f, if you don't mind me asking?

artemis I bet it is super stressful, and confusing, and all-round bewildering. As you say, you have time to do some research and think about things. Good luck with poking the bear with a stick.

joy let me know how you get on with the rose facial oil. I really hope you love it as much as I do. The smell alone makes me feel relaxed and I think it helps me sleep. I know what you mean about the crow's feet - I feel the same, it's crazy but I feel like wrinkles would be more 'allowed' if I had children. But another thing I have noticed is that having a baby really ages some people. I think it is the torture of lack of sleep, night after night.

Nurse called an hour ago to say that my doctor wants me to stay on the 'low and slow' dose of gonal f (75mg) until Sunday night, then come in for a scan Monday to see whether he needs to up the dose or if I'm ready. She said 'we don't want you to be Octomom' . That'll be 12 days of Gonal F - no idea if that is normal or not. I think he sounds like he's being conservative, though, which must be a good thing.

doll I usuallu ov on CD12 but used to be CD16, this is early for me

critter I took Gonal f from days 2-7 inclusive, I started on 75mgs then 150, then 225 in the end. I ovulate naturally so it was just to increase the egg numbers. It can take a month or to for them to get the right dose

gin loving the Duchess and critters image of her

Haven't caught up, my turn to do epic working but just to say heavy spotting my end at a grand old cd33. Pretty fed up and frustrated and appear to have turned entirely into Doris. So, hello cycle 19

Artemis - wow that is a head spinner of a day. As others have said a private IVF cycle in the near future follwed by your NHS cycle, if needed, in 10 months sounds like a complete plan. So would the private clinic be more inclined to discuss short v's long protocol etc? I guess it's a funds permiting thing. Gin has some very wise words about choosing IVF clinics and options. I also agree that going to the open days is helpful. You have time to think and ask questions. Could you go on to the 'other well known website' where there are many long v's short discussions going on for a read? Good luck with your busy work schedule.

Doll - wow at your consultation. The Dr sounds a bit non commitel but I wonder if this means they are willing to be flexible and relate treatment to you? Putting 4 embryos back seems quite a lot but I understand there are so many variables influencing this decision and it's great that you have that final decision. I guess it's a bit worrying to commit to treamtment and pay your money only to find out what the protocol would be once you arrive to start. Can you get back in touch and ask for them to send you a report with treatment recommendations and the reasons for these? I am really impressed with how quickly you have got the ball rolling - best of luck.

Buzz - I'm sorry you have the blues but good shot at the old chimp to get her back in her cage. They are not easy to shoot at when they are jumping around the room like crazy mad things. How did you get on with the occy health referral?

Critter - sounds like your Dr is being sensible. I have no idea if this is relevant but they were quite quick to crank up my IVF stimming drugs and I often wonder if left on a lower would the follies would have matured anyway - but then again, there could be a time frame which they must work in. I say trust your clinic for now. I DO think eating loads of protein is essential in the follicle development stage. Try and eat loads of chicken / turkey / eggs etc and have milk products too. Also try a hot water bottle on the belly to encourage growth. Exciting - fingers crossd for Monday.

Joycep - hmmm Neal's yard you say. I want some rose oil now too. Maybe when I get to London .

Lemons - you are a star. Well done for the presentation. As other have said, get some treat and relaxation time as often as you can.

Gin - I am having single blasto transfer. They won't allow more than one as I am 32 and 35 onwards is where they consider more than one. However, if I were to have more unsuccessful cycles, they may increase the number transfered.

Sorry for all the baby name stealing which has been going on. Grrrr. They are OUR names.

And we all seem to be ageing at the moment too. But I'm sure we are all just being too hard on ourselves really - we have become too well rehearsed at feeling negative about ourselves. I say lets indulge in spa breaks, neals yard treats, chocolate and chimp slapping to keep the wrinkles away!

Rabbit - I am thinking of you. I hope no news is good news??

Thank you again to all you lovely ladies for the woops and cheers for the follie, the LH surge and the blasto next week. This cycle has come around quickly and so far I am still quite chilled. Somone said to factor in nice relaxing things this weekend. I hadn't given it much thought, but I shall do just that.

Hello to everyone else.

Ah Rabbit - so glad you popped on here tonight. I know you will be sad and shed some CD 1 tears. But goodness me - what a turnaround your body has made when compared to the womblegate days, the 3 week cycles and the general horror of surgery and prodding and poking. After all of that, your body is able to function normally - that is some body!! I say, give it time. You have eveything in your favour now. Big hugs - it's horrible when you feel you have had a near miss.

lemon you should be proud, you are doing so amazingly well. It's good you are keeping Hatty well fed too
I did not dare stray more than a few yards from a toilet when I had my mc. tbh I'm not sure a tampax would last any time at all.

critter sounds like things are progressing well. at MrC refusing you your marital rights.

In answer to your question, I don't know how many dpo I am as I've yet to figure out any ov timings. I'm cd26 but can have 50+ day cycles (but had a 28 day once). The average is 35-37 so I need to just wait and see...but.... the thing is... I have a Dr appointment booked for next Mon to talk about irregular cycles and get the ball rolling with blood tests etc. But now I'm wondering if I should poas at the weekend, before I see her, just to make sure. It's very unlikely AF will have arrived by then either way but I'm fed up of wasting money on HPTs.
at octomum. Exciting that you've got your scan booked for Monday.

doll good news about the non-alien and at the real Dr comment. You seem to have baffled him with your super ovaries. I'm angry on your behalf about the lack of info from him.

buzzy sounds like the ambush calmed Charlie down

mrsden that's so crap about your name being pinched. I have not told anyone mine but when I was a teenager I always wanted to call my daughter Charlie

Waves and hugs to you all.

Just popping in quickly... mrsd I too had read mixed reviews about Proxeed, but our consultant told mr g to take it and that her unit in Belgium (whatever that is!) had done some research recently and found it to be useful. It's basically a multivitamin, with some antioxidants. As the dr told him to take it, mr g is happily gulping it down. You could probably get the components separately, much cheaper, but I think mr g would revolt if I said he had to take more than 1 thing a day! Also means we don't have to worry about those pesky walnuts.

Meh rabbits, but as sar has said, do try to take a little comfort in your text book cycle.

Intersting about only being allowed to put 1 blast back sar. Guess that's the difference between private vs NHS. We had 2 put back and I'm under 35 too. I am sooooo hopeful for you this cycle. Have you got some swi in too?!

Morning and waves to all you other ladies or should that be monkeys??

Just popping in quickly... mrsd I too had read mixed reviews about Proxeed, but our consultant told mr g to take it and that her unit in Belgium (whatever that is!) had done some research recently and found it to be useful. It's basically a multivitamin, with some antioxidants. As the dr told him to take it, mr g is happily gulping it down. You could probably get the components separately, much cheaper, but I think mr g would revolt if I said he had to take more than 1 thing a day! Also means we don't have to worry about those pesky walnuts.

Meh rabbits, but as sar has said, do try to take a little comfort in your text book cycle.

Intersting about only being allowed to put 1 blast back sar. Guess that's the difference between private vs NHS. We had 2 put back and I'm under 35 too. I am sooooo hopeful for you this cycle. Have you got some swi in too?!

Morning and waves to all you other ladies or should that be monkeys??

Morning all :)

Bloody hell, it was busy on here yesterday? I was away doing work stuff. And yep, I aired the new twat wear. 80s heels and a tight black Zara dress with shoulder pads. I'm riding that nu-Dynasty wave :)

Hope everyone is ok today. Sorry to everyone that had a tough, emotional, mind bending day yesterday. I fear I may miss some out. I'll do my best to name check:

Rabbit so sorry about CD1 rocking up. I really had some hope tucked away for you. I hope you are ok. As Sar pointed out, your body is doing so many good things and it's a huge achievement that your body has healed itself so well :)

Lemon massive respect for doing your presentation. Hope you are ok today and the bleeding has subsided. xx

Sar wow! That FET is coming round so quickly. I have a good feeling in my waters for this one. How exciting to think that you may have a tiny bean in your tummy when we meet you in London! :)

Critter I second you on Neal's Yard. We have one just around the corner (or on the next block - as you would say ) from our flat. I use their lavender oil religiously for headaches and sprinkling on my pillow at night. I haven't tried the facial oils though and I've run out of exfoliator so I may have a little trip there myself today :) And good luck for your treatment. at Mr C and the SA. We had a lot of grumbles in the Princess household, especially as Mr P's doctor (in his late, late 60s) sent him home with instructions dated 1985, which said that he had to abstain for 5 days. And that he had longer to get to the hospital than is currently recommended. The people at the hospital had to phone said doctor to inform him that he mustn't use the 1985 handout any more. Although it was geuinely hilarious and reminded us of how far attitudes to relationships etc have moved on. I don't think we kept it, I wish we had, because I would scan and send a link to you all!! Anyway, Mr P was very when he found out that 2 days was sufficient. I rolled around

Joy I've met you and your wrinkles are not bad. Fact.

Buzzy glad you are feeling a little better. Be gentle with yourself you are going through a really tough time. Hugs xx

Coco the picture you linked to made me laugh so, so much!

Artemis ok, obviously pleased is the wrong word about being on the waiting list. However, do you feel a bit better that things are moving ahead? I don't know the difference between self funded and private. The whole NHS seems to be a mine field of bureaucratic nonsense. Red tape me up baby! I hope Mr A is being supportive. Sorry that you are so busy that you don't have time to go through this properly. Are you able to send a list of questions to your consultant? Or call his #2?

Gin I absolutely love the name of your chimp. Totally inspired. It makes me think of Kate Middleton having a complete spack out. She is so composed all of the time, so I bet she has complete finger-in-a-socket hair, chocolate smeared face and crazed outbursty moments.

MrsD I'm so sorry you are having a tough time. That's crap that your friend inadvertently stole your name. It's not fair that your baby isn't here yet. But they will be one day. They will! :) I'm sorry your tests are taking so long too. When do you get your results back? I'm not too bothered about names now, my fave from when I was tiny, tiny and goes with our surname too, was ruined when I found out that DH had an ex-shag buddy called the same name. They're still sort of friends via facebook and the idea of bumping into her and saying, oh hi nice to meet you by the way we called our daughter after you just seems weird. I have since found names that I like way better :). And I 'accidentally' on purpose gave one of DHs faves away to my bestie that I don't really like but is his definite fave. I don't know if she'll use it tho, but her husband has roots in another country and this name is a fairly unusual name from that country. Touche DH, touche! We have had our other secret names on hold since 2009 and I very much doubt that they will be used as they are fairly unusual. Fingers crossed tho. In 2009 I had high hopes of 4 babies (being 27 and assuming I was uber fertile and have names for all of them. I think we may have one child with a string of unusual mixed sex names. Poor future princess baby!

Doll get you with all of your big follies! That sounds promising. Get shaggin I reckon! Oh and the IVF stuff sounds confusing. I have no idea what to think / say on that one.

For anyone interested, there is a Neal's Yard near the meet up place and they have therapy rooms there too (various woo treatments). I've had a look at the store finder and they have lots of store all over the country and some international stores too.

Sorry for those missed. Hard to keep up! Oh and I had a night off with DH watching Grand Designs, eating bean burgers and drinking a bottle of wine in bed last night because we can and we don't have anywhere else to sit and eat at the moment So I didn't even have a chance to get involved on the iPad. Plus i had a flurry of texts from friends proposing social things which hasn't happened for ages. It felt, what's that word, hmmm, ummmm, arr yes, normal. Princess feels like her normal old life has returned. I'm baby free and happy

Big tail feather shakes to you all. Lots of love xxx

Oh rabbit , how are you feeling this morning. Bodies are mental. God, just to know what the hell is going on in there.

Coco I'm not angry about the lack of info from the Dr on the egg farm situation. He thought it was clear looking at the right side, and the left one took him by surprise. lemon he didn't say he was 100% sure they were not cysts. Anyway, I look at it like this - just from experiences here it's clear that all kinds of things can happen from now, not ov at all, only one egg released even though there are a bunch of big follies or as the Dr hinted at, more than one release. I think the lack of info from his side is, in part at least, because they are a bunch of outcomes that he can't predict.

More multiples in older women is well documented as mrsden said, joy I always looked at it as the body working overtime in desperation, given that its harder to conceive at all. I have a friend that had a shock (by complete chance in the city where I live now) when she found out she was expecting twins (none in the families) She was bluntly told it was because she's old (36 at the time!).

Still on multiples, 4 embryos is not happening here, that's for sure. I never even considered 3, but I guess I would hear a doctor out in consideration of my age. mrsden I hear you on not being filled full of confidence but it wasnt worse than I expected. I don't think a different doctor would make any difference to the treatment or outcome. sar I have the impression that I'm not committed from the very beginning, so my plan is to go with Mr Doll and make sure we are happy enough with the situation. The worse that can happen is we pay for a few tests and a chat and walk away if we are not feeling that it's the way to go.

Artemis any thoughts since yesterday? Did you have any understanding of what specific circumstances the short protocol would be considered? This was my biggest question mark from yesterday.

princess x-post well get you (back) with the Neal's Yard (which I have never even heard of). I'm so crap, never even been to a spa.

I had the baby name thing but the other way around. My sister told me I couldn't use the name I had picked for me son because it 'was hers' Mmmm interesting. I did though

Ooo Doll Neal's Yard is lovely, especially if you're into natural / organic stuff. They can make potions and tinctures for you too. Although I've always been a bit scared, so have steered clear and stuck to the bath oils etc. They appear to have a couple in the Middle East but not where you are. I love spas and spa treatments but equally have lots of friends who think they are a waste of time (and money). When are you back to see your Doctor re IVF?

I forgot to mention that I have a meeting with the arrogant old man on Monday a.k.a. The Consultant. I have no idea what he's going to suggest next but I'm hoping that my apathy is a display of his instruction to 'chill out'.... Maybe I'll do one of my anger management exercises using him as the subject.

Oh and Princess loving the giving away names My fav girls name belongs to Mr Doll's brother's wife. So that's out. He can't really help it but I do hold it against him

Princess just looked at the website- store coming here soon it says!

Lots going on here. Lots of follies talk. Welcome picolina.
Glad buzzy seems to be feeling a bit better.
MrsDen hugs
Doll I'd be excited about Neal's Yard coming soon too.
I've ordered the chimp book. And I've decided that Mr Ciconiidae is having a bloody laugh. Yep, another flipping announcement and this one has 64 working days left! tears flowing.
Anyway, I have a GP appointment tomorrow and a list of questions to ask her. She's been through it all herself so I figure she's a good one to talk too.
Have to get xrays done next week and wondering if I should POAS so I can go get them done. Even though I know I'm not and AF is due on Wednesday.
Waves to you all. Off to cuddle the fur baby.

Doll the name thing is a bloody minefield. How exciting re the New Shop! Isn't it typical that they've already been snatched by someone inappropriate.

Teu oh I'm so sorry. They really are coming thick and fast aren't they. That's really crap. I hope you have a successful appointment with your Dr. Someone sympathetic is half the battle, so it's already sounding promising. Big hugs to you today. Here have some herbal to have alongside cuddles with your fur baby. xx