Assisted Conception (and all the bits that go with it) volume 9

[Scrummybumb]

A new snug for us AC ladies

Good luck for tomorrow Maple
Thanks MiniH enjoy the gym, hope ot helps you feel less bloated

Thanks Pocket I'm trying not to think too hard about it but I just can't help myself, and today I'm worrying that I can't feel anything, although I know he/she/they won't have implanted yet so I wouldn't be feeling anything anyway! But someone on another thread just got another BFN after IVF and she's decided that she has had enough and won't listen to whoever has given her faulty 'bits'. She has decided she will fight for her BFP and will never give up, so now I'm full of fighting spirit, and even if Fred and Ginger don't make it, I will never give up (gets down off pedestal)

Good luck maple!!

Hi lovelies - just a really quick one from as I'm at work and it's open plan so no privacy. Thank you so much for all the good luck messages, love and warmth.

Unfortunately it didn't work out for us this time. AF came yesterday and negative test this morning. Lots of tears and heartbreak but hopefully we will get through this, one way or the other. DH is being amazing - I'm very lucky.

Will be in touch this evening with personals. Lots of ove and hugs to everyone. Go Fred and Ginger go!!!

Maple x

So sorry to hear that Maple We're hear if you need to get it off your chest, hope you're going to be ok

Good luck for follie count today MiniH

Really sorry to hear that maple. That's good that you're getting lots of support from DH. Hugs to you.

josie no cheer leading dance for Fred and ginger, I'm thinking more of a tap dance in the style of an old musical, maybe with a cane and boater as props.

italian everything crossed for you too.

scrummy very excited to hear your progress at/ opinions on ARGC. And 7.5 FSH, wow, that's brilliant! Are you on long protocol?

lissy sounds like you're all doing well, and little rosalie feeding every 4 hours!! You lucky, lucky thing! DS woke every 2 hours til he was 18 months, little rascal.

Hi to everyone else too. I'm doing fine. I passed the 24 week mark on Saturday, so breathed another sigh of relief there

Gosh so sorry maple. Make sure you and DH take some time to process this. But it really sounds like both of you have your heads screwed on. Whenever you need to chat, or consider options we are all here oxo

Oh Maple sweetie i'm so sorry. Thinking of you and DP.

Thanks so much everyone. I can't tell you how comforting it is to come on here and have your support. None of my friends have gone through IVF or had problems conceiving and nobody at work knows as I only started my new job in Jan.

I'm feeling a bit numb tbh and really not sure what's next for us in our quest to have a family and for me to get pregnant. I'm too tired to rally against the unfairness of it all and it won't get me anywhere in the long run. I'm just really unsure about what to do next and would really appreciate your advice...

We had ICSI at Queen Mary's, Roehampton on the NHS self funded package (our official NHS go comes up in December). Our consultant said that due to my AMH (extremely low and peri menopausal) and Age (37) we had a 15% chance of the tx working and that I pretty much had until June to use my own eggs. I responded very poorly to their standard long protocol, with just the one follie and egg. Our experience of the clinic wasn't great - very much a one size fits all policy. My counsellor at ZW thinks we would get a much better result at either The Lister or ARGC.

The thing is is I'm so scared of going through this again and it not working, given that my odds are never going to be particularly great, no matter how good the clinic is. I feel as though I've invested everything, financially, psychologically and emotionally, in to making this work...We could just about scrape / borrow the funds to go private with the Lister or ZW (I don't think I'd fit ARGC criteria) for one round, but if that didn't work, well that would be it. DH has said it's my decision but did confess he thinks we should go straight down the Egg Donation route - I think to save me heartache - as our odds would be so much better. So options as far as I can see;

1. Do 2 more rounds of a self funded package with a clinic I don't have much confidence in but who will have learnt lessons from this cycle; (my already beleaguered ovaries obviously don't like being suppressed in to oblivion!)

2. Move straight to ED and give up on my own genetic child. Have any of you ladies had to get to grips with this? I think we could stretch to 2 cycles overseas

3. Invest everything in going private with Lister / ZW

Are there other options I haven't considered? (I can't face the adoption
route just yet).

Sorry for the incredibly self indulgent post. My head is just spinning at the moment. All I want is to hold my baby in my arms and be a mummy.

I'll post separately with personals as I've already gone on for way to long (blush)

Maple x

Maple is there the option of having another go somewhere like the Lister with your own eggs (I went to an open evening there, and had a consultation with a DR there who specialised in low AMH and high FSH. If my FSH didn't behave at ARGC I would have gone to them) and if it doesn't work going on to donor then? Have you had your immunes tested? Lister can do this too. Maybe even go to the Lister (and ZW) and talk to them and get there advice. I had to wait a few weeks to have an appt with this dr at the Lister (she was called Dr Jaya Parikh) and I asked her about her experience treating women with my AMH (it was 2.8 or something like that), my FSH (around 10 at the time) and my age (40) and whether she thought there was actually any point or whether she thought I should just move onto donor. She said 'God, we've had successes with much worse cases than yours, so I'd definitely say go for it'. I'd trust her advice. Sorry, I'm writing this in a real rush, but if I were you, and if we could afford it I'd have another go at a clinic that specialises in difficult cases before moving onto donor. That's just my opinion though, only you and DH can decide what's best for you x

Maple - sweetheart - why don't you just give yourself some time. You've only just had the news. rest over the Easter, talk it through with your DH on long walks and try and do some nice things if you can. Then, once you've rested a bit it may just become very clear to you what the right direction is. I'm so sorry it didn't work out for you, but i'm sure you've seen from this thread that there always seems to be more options, so it's not the end

Josie - i love Fred and Ginger! and as for being brave about the injections - i realised i was getting more stressed about DH doing them (in case he got it wrong) that i felt i just had to get on with it. good job too, as he's not here often when i need to take them.

Minih - how are you coping? has the bloating eased at all? I have absolutely no energy for exercise now - i tried a long walk yesterday but had to go really slowly

Lucy - 24 weeks!!! that's great progress. Have you treated yourself to new maternity clothes? I'm on short protocol - so started stimms on Saturday (day 2). I will now need to start my immunes treatment too - got the call today to go for my IVIG tomorrow. I recall you offering that I could PM you, but it's all moving forward so quickly, i'm hardly keeping up. It doesn't help that i seem to wake up in the middle of the night most nights and not able to go back to sleep. Next door neighbour had her baby and the nursery is next to our bedroom, so i spend my nights listening to her baby cry i've started to listen to some hypnotherapy CDs though, so i just pluck those in now to try and get myself in deep relaxation and then some more sleep!

Italian - hope you're enjoying the Harvest festival - that's a nice distraction for the 2WW.

mojangles - sounds like you really are going ahead then. As long as you feel that it is the right thing to do, then it's all ok.

pocket and sunnyg - how long before you both start?

ARGC really is full on - from day 1. with the lack of sleep etc i'm feeling pretty tired. I have my last working day tomorrow, so hopefully the fact that I no longer need to work from Friday onwards will help. Will keep you posted

Maples wanted to add how sorry I am it didn't work out. I think some of the others are right that you need time to digest, but I totally get how thinking of what next helps to stay positive. We haven't had to grapple with donor eggs as issues are all male, but have pondered whether we'd go down sperm donor route and it's really tough to know what is best. I think you need to arm yourself with as much information as possible, so I would sign up for open evenings at lister and anywhere else appropriate. That way you can get a sense of odds as that is the only way you can make an informed choice. I would also add create to the list for open days - that is who we are with and they specialise in low/poor response and are really unphased with criteria - they just want to make it happen if at all possible and being minimally invasive. We went to their open day and you get a mini consult with the doctor at the end to ask your questions.

scrummy glad you are off after tomorrow. Guess we are almost cycle buddies.

Sorry in advance for the me post, but after doing so fine till now had a major wobble this afternoon. Am overtired I think and turns out my oestrogen is really high so that won't be helping. Had scan and blood test this morning and they were running half hour late so was late for work. They were supposed to call early afternoon and at five I gave up and called them to be told my case had to be discussed at meeting and they would call. No idea of when. To cut a long story short when i did eventually speak to them the dr was really abrupt and matter of fact and it just tipped me over the edge. Dh was a real star though and took over - so here's the update. I have 16 follies on right side and 20 on left, although clearly at various stage of growth. My ovaries are therefore huge so no wonder my stomach is so sore! They said I have to re scan and blood test tomorrow as at risk of over stimulating. But, they don't think they will have to cancel at this stage, just reduce dose (which in turn impacts on egg quality, so they only want to do that if they have to). Egg collection may be as early as saturday though given what's happening. Now I know that cancellation is not that likely am much calmer - was just really panicked when they didn't call and then demanded I come in tomorrow. Anyway, dr apologised to Dh and I do think I just caught them at a bad time, and clearly i was on edge from the start.

Really also wanted to say a huge thank you to all you lovely ladies for being there to listen - all I wanted to do was 'speak' to you all when it all kicked off but being at work that was impossible. I really can't say how much it helps having this outlet. Right, need to stop writing as am welling up again and am on the train!!

Hugs to all xx

Mini, Scrummy, Lucy - thank you :) some really good advice there. DH and I are away for the w/e to celebrate our first wedding anniversary so will catch up with you all when I get back on Mon.

Have a wonderful Easter everyone.

Love and hugs. xx

Maple I'm sort of in the same boat, except we definitely can't afford private. From my point of view, I find it hard to deal with the thought of donor eggs. However, after my IUI I've been acting as though I was pregnant and I've realised that even if we used donor eggs, to be pregnant and carry a child would be absolutely amazing, and if that was the way it had to be, I would do it. I don't think you would lose any of the maternal instinct or the bond of mother and child, by using donor eggs. You will carry the baby, it will be a part of you

Saying that, I think if there was even the smallest chance of getting pregnant with my own eggs, I would exhaust all tries before considering egg donation. No matter how long it took, and how much heartache it cuased, at least I would know that I had tried everything

I do agree with Scrummy though, take some time to grieve this cycle before you make any decisions, and take plenty of time, don't rush into any major decisions.

You can always PM me if you want to talk about it more as I'm going through almost the same thing and trying to make the same sorts of decision ((hugs))

MiniH - gosh that is a massive number, no wonder hormones everywhere!!

Maple I think some clinics are better at different areas, or rather certain dr's have their own specialisms, so might be worth seeing what other clinics can offer you regarding your own issues (as well as having your NHS go - but Lister do NHS funding, so might be worth seeing if you can move your NHS funding there... I moved my NHS funding to a Care hospital - where George at ZW worked, but sadly didn't get to see him on NHS!) Lister and the dr at ZW are good options, if ARGC don't accept you - George (now at ZW, was at Care) is known for taking difficult patients, though know immunes is his main area when he was at Care. If you got as far as your own embryo this time being implanted then Lister/ZW etc may be able to help you move onto the next step. Don't know about clinics abroad I am afraid. Could you book a consultation with these clinics to see what they can do for you? Know ZW has quite a long list, so if you considering that you might want to book one as George is so busy and sees the patient from beginning to end himself so limits how many he sees.

Little update from me. Had another scan and blood test today and oestrogen (or whatever they test) is over 6,500 now so they're brought me forward for egg collection. Will be Saturday so last injection tonight (at midnight!) and then bloods tomorrow again. All seems very real now

Hi MiniH hope that your last injection went well and best wishes for tomorrow's collection - how exciting!

I can't believe that I am two weeks in already to the down-reg injections. Only side effects so far seem to be extreme hunger and 4am wakings, hence being up this early on a bank holiday!

I've got my next scan on Tuesday to see if I can move on to Gonal F injections. DH will be in Madrid so I hope that there are no problems with him not being there. We did ask at the last meeting and the nurse said it was the only scan which would be fine if he wasn't there but the clinic literature says that both partners should be at all scans so now I'm starting to second guess myself - aaaaargh!

Anyway, hope all you lovely ladies have a good, and relaxing, Easter.

Maplecake I am so very sorry. Thinking of you and your other half. I really hope you will find support around you (and we are all here for you) and that you will know what your next step is.

Maplecake totally second what Keziah, Lucy, Scrummy, Mini and Josie have said, take some time, relax if at all possible and go to as many open evenings etc as you can/email clinics for info etc, to get an idea what your best chance will be.

Maplecake I really can?t advise you what to do. However, I can tell you that we were told many times that it would not work with my eggs after DD was born. I went through IUI many times (have literally lost count of the number of times) and finally DH said we could try donor eggs about 3 years ago.

For me there was a sense of loss that if I got pregnant my baby would not be genetically mine, but I made my peace with that long ago.

Maybe there were factors in my situation which made that easier I think, namely that our DD is my genetic child (with my DH) and also that having had such a lovely daughter I felt the closest thing to another genetic DD or DH would be one who was genetically related to my DH and DD.

Having said this I am now looking at adoption (if this final cycle does not work) and I now feel that I am in a place that I am ready for it, BUT it took me ages to get to this place.

I hope my reply is not insensitive, if you are trying for baby number one you may wish to keep going with your own eggs a bit longer.

As far as the money side goes, I would say we have found the money by sharing a car, not having exotic holidays, not having any new furniture for years, barely drinking alcohol or going to the pub (or out at all!!) and diverting any windfalls (cash from relatives) into this attempt! For me it has been worth it even though it has failed! BUT I know that we have been lucky as a relative did give us a wind fall a few years ago.

I think it would help you and DH to calmly consider all options and also to consider what it means to not try certain options. If you really do genuinely have until June to try with your own eggs (no idea how they can be so precise and I would want to know more from the consultant with regard to that) then I would consider another go with own eggs either IUI or IDEALLY IVF (IF this is your first choice).

Then if that did not work I would consider a go with donor eggs (IF you feel that is right for you).

Personally, I would look at all the things like COST and WAITING times for donor eggs and see where it is best to be on a waiting list. If there is a relatively small cost to go on a waiting list for donor eggs and you decide to go with your own eggs first I would be tempted to go on a waiting list and have it as a back up! But it may be too expensive to you personally. I know that even though the cost was high the actual waiting time was what I found MOST frustrating!

I would also investigate overseas options and see what you are happy with. There are factors with overseas treatment such as some countries have different rules about identification so you would never know the donor?s details, where as if you go in the UK (or places like USA ? VERY expensive in USA, I think, but just using as an example). Then if you had a child, the child when an adult could trace the donor. This may or may not be important to you and could influence where you wish to go for treatment.

Other factors with overseas clinics are the cost, (probably cheaper), the wait times (probably less), need to travel and maybe stay in hotel etc BUT usually they have a UK arrangement which means you get scans here. As you probably know, even if they are not your eggs you still need to be scanned to see if lining is fine. There are a number of UK clinics working in partnership with Spain, Greece and other places.

Another option might be to consider a very good UK clinic working in partnership with overseas (or has good supplies of donor eggs) and to try with your eggs now with a view to moving to their egg donor or overseas egg donor programme IF necessary. The benefit for you with staying with one GOOD clinic for your own egg treatment then (IF necessary) donor egg treatment MIGHT be that at least the clinic learns about you and you may feel comfortable (if they are good and you feel in good hands!). OR you may feel going to different clinics is better as you get a spread of experiences. What do others think?

..... Oh ... and congratulations on wedding anniversary, try and enjoy it, this is NOT the end of the story. Every story has a happy ending ? if you are not happy, this is not the end! (no idea where that quote comes from but I love it, and I do believe it). Hugs.

(Apologies for massive post!)

Maplecake I meant that "I felt the closest thing to another genetic DD or DS...." and I meant me and DH shared a car rather than having a car each (which seems to be what most of my friends have - their own car I mean!).

Mini I am so sorry you have had a hard time , that really is a lot of eggs to be carting around. PLEASE try and stay calm, you said egg collection Saturday, so tomorrow - everything crossed for you honey for tomorrow and arrow prayers that this will work for you. Just make sure that they freeze lots of embies if possible so you might not have to go through all this stimming again (if they recommend it, I mean, I am not a doctor ? just a concerned friend!). HUGS.

Josie my darling my thoughts are with you. Go Fred and Ginger, GO GO GO. . Glad you are in fighting spirit.

Pocket hugs to you my dear, hope you are enjoying your warming liquidy diet ? one words for you .... SOUP! I love it. Tomato from Heinz is one of your five-a-day and lentil is protein! as I am sure you know! [can of soup emotion l_l]

Lissy hugs to you. Enjoy the antenatal class. It is a truly great way to make new friends and stay in touch for ages. So sorry to hear about neighbours still being a problem . Sorry if being naive, no idea what the problem is but would mediation help?
[http://www.ukmediation.net/cms/Neighbourhood_Mediation]
Fortunately, I have not needed to use mediation services so have no idea how they work but just wondered if there was any way of helping the situation (ignore me if I?ve missed the point).

Keziah, hugs to you and baby David.

vallinnapod Lovely to hear from you. My dear all best wishes with a free-bie or frosties.

Lucy hugs to you. So glad you have got to this key point. I am sure you are resting easier now, I am so pleased for you.

Mojangles it?s a fact isn?t it, only we ourselves know when it is time to get off the ?train?. I?m on clexane and steroids too. Hugs to you always.

Sunnyg, thinking of you, honey.

Scrummy well done on getting on with it all. Hope all will go well for you, praying for a good result for us all.

Bugsylugs, how are you my dear?

BadgerFace all very best wishes for you and this cycle. Try not to worry or second guess the clinic. I am hopeful all will go well for you.

Lexie, weller, Pumpkinjoy and all, and baby dust and chocolate boobs to all

quickly popping in to say the very best of luck to MiniH for tomorrow. look forward to your update. You really did respond quite massively then - glad to hear you'r win good hands there.

Badgerface i'm sure you'll be fine on your own for the scan. Glad to hear you're doing ok on the drugs too. I too have trouble sleeping, but i guess that's just part of the journey at this stage

i'm on Day 7 today of stimms. Doing ok here. IVIG went well and now on whole concoction of stuff - my daily list just seems getting longer. currently 7 good size follies on the go, with a one or two smaller ones visible on scan. let's see how things progress. I'm likely to start my twice daily visits either tomorrow or Sunday

italian when is the D-day? It must be soon now

Mini thinking of you today. Fx that it all goes okay. [busmile]
[bubiscuit][bubiscuit]

Maple just seen your post and so sorry it hasn't worked.

Hope all of you ok - we are away most of Easter hols hence radio silence.

Will post properly next week when can type properly.

Had HSG booked in for 16 th but will have to rearrange as AF came on Monday - back to 19 day cycles grrr

Xx

Hello all. Thank you so much for all your kind wishes. Am at home again after collection. The procedure went fine. Found the fasting/ no water difficult as appointment wasn't till noon, and I had quite a lot of pain for about an hour after, but painkillers kicked in now. They collected eight eggs and we will get the call tomorrow to tell us number of embryos/ quality. They've gone for icsi as morphology wasn't good enough to risk plain ivf.

Hope everyone else is having good weekend.

badger don't worry about going to scans alone - I did all mine alone, and although didn't have down reg assume scans are very similar to short protocol ones.

Hugs to all xx

Just a quick one from me to wish you all Happy Easter. Hope you are all eating heaps of choccy and relaxing.

Will be back tomorrow or Monday to catch up and name check.

Big Easter Hugs to you all oxox