30s TTC: Back to school at BESHory Towers. For spiffing gels who've been TTC since before rationing ended and find conception harder than Double Latin, chiz . What ho!

[Scorpette]

Come along, we haven't got all day. Pop off your blazers and straw boaters for a mo and listen up. As Head Girl, I think you ought to know that my dear chum Darrell Rivers tells me that we're really letting the side down with our lack of baybee-winning. To that end, instead of prep and lacrosse, we'll be TTC. I know some of us are losing hope that we'll ever win the Motherhood Cup for our house, but chins up and think of England! We don't won't to end up like the bitter, childless, dried-up old spinsters running this place, do w... oh, hello Matron! Yes, yes, we're going now...

Super! We've been given the attic dorm - bagsy the bed by the window, what! We won't be disturbed when we're enjoying midnight feasts, unbridled lesbianism, pillow fights and sneaking in fellows from the nearby boy's school for some ghastly dreadfulness.

So let's pop some Joyce Grenfell on the gramophone and crack open the tuck boxes! Mater's made me a huge ginger cake and oooh, I see someone's brought pontefract cakes! Yummo! Humbugs, sherbet, elderflower fizz, eccles cakes, a whole slab of choccy - what a simply smashing haul! Hmmm, this ginger beer smells suspiciously gin-like...

Oh yes

Please note: that is not an invitation to further debate - I am inexpressibly weary of it. 30 years of being mocked will do that to a girl...

I am now going to go and rant at the injustice of Sainsbury's selling blueberries for roughly twice the price of gold bullion .

Hmph, maybe I should use straighteners on my fringe: it tends towards 'wanging' outwards otherwise!

Owly I am so sorry about the BFN . I do recommend the CBFM you know - not that it gave me a magickal POZ on my first cycle, but it's so lovely to feel all scientific and in control.

Tis cos they are a 'superfood' HB. Means they will cure all manner of things, including, I believe, both babyfail AND slippery womb syndrome....

What HB said - except for the bit about faith, given have not believed in God since an pubescent flirtation with evangelism (it was either God or ponies, and ponies were too expensive).

What Dawkins denies, and what Gould expresses very well, is that we all make up stories about how the world works. Some of those stories have an evidence base, some don't. But we have been telling stories since we first drew on cave walls, and that's how we structure the world. I just don't think that one story should silence another.

I don't think that religion gives people rights to do or say certain things. Neither do I think that being convinced of one's own rightness means that it's ok to tell other people that their stories are stupid. Being sure that one's beliefs are the only correct beliefs is entirely opposed to my understanding of rationalism - which is to encourage people to think for themselves and make up their own minds.

I fell like I've woken up to a classrtoom full of new friends - it's lovely!

salty - I know you is not diffed, but I had a fringe when I was diffed with the boy child and my face got SO pudgy and the fringe only made it worse. So I say stay with the waves...

owly (one of my first ever soft toys was called Owly. It was an owl. Unsuprisingly...) Sorry to hear about the OF not stepping upto the mark. Getting the FC to cut down on alcohol and stop smoking was tricky to say the least - so I feel your pain. But I was a little relentless, and wore him down with gentle but CONSTANT pointers... And he is as delighted as me about the money we are is saving on sticks (he is an accountant...).

And my fellow scorp (I'm a late Nov girl & so only just make it!) and one of the original BESHes - thank you for letting me join your dorm! (But I agree with *head on the Dawkins thing - sorry... )

Goooood morning fellow BESHes.

Gonna side step the religion vs athesim debate/non debate bit early in the day is that one.

Instead...hair! I think fringes are ace, had one for a few years and then grew it out 'cause I got bored with it but amd now very bored with the complete lack of style my long brown (with a few locks of grey ) so would definitely get one again, although I do recall daily bad hair, in fact I think I just have bad hair all the time and change hair styles in the vain hope I will one day feel good about it . In fact now that back to school vibe is in the air think I may go for the chop....again. Long hair is rubbish with babies anyway as they love tugging on it so in preparation.....

How was y'alls bank holidays?

Sorry for the BFN twittwoo. There was a discussion about the CBFM a little while back and quite a few ravers on the subject so could be worth it - if only to feel a sense of control in matters.

Hello to footballclub. What a lovely inspiring story....another person who relaxed and it happened. Could someone please give me the secret of how to relax because I think I am and then babyfail after babyfail.

ramgirl I sorta know what you're feeling with the whole Grandparents besotted with nephew thing...and now they've beaten me to have another one on the go too . I try and comfort myself with the knowledge that it will be us one of these days and that it will be lovely to have cousins close in age. On subject of gorgeous nephew he chose Sunday when we were with him to walk by himself for the very first time . A tear did come to my eye...although think I was the only one, soppy bint that I am.

2Woofl news .....nada. I was expecting loads of symptoms what with the progesterone fanjo tablets but hardly owt. Therefore I don't believe my crappy one egg has done the business and this will be yet another fail :(

HB, I meant that faith was a baseless (etc.) superstition in terms of basing things in society upon (like the example I gave of swearing on the Bible), not on a personal level. I should've made that clearer, sorry. I have zero problem with people believing what they want. But, sadly, most Atheists do see religious belief (not believers) as dangerous, because we can't see how people can believe those things and let them shape the way they behave and treat other people, etc., and so many terrible things have been done in the name of religion (please don't point out Stalin or Mao - those were personality cults, which are the same thing as a religion), whereas all good things done in the name of religion could and would be done just the same without.

Many religious people say that Atheists are evil, going to hell, in league with the devil - or just plain wrong and cruel. It's pretty hurtful to be called evil - lumped in with nazis, child abusers, etc. - just for not being able to believe in something invisible and unprovable. I know you aren't like that, but too many religious people are (and I don't say 'invisible and unprovable' to be inflammatory).

No-one likes to be offended but we don't have a right to tell other people what they can say to prevent this. Atheists are constantly insulted, not only verbally, but by the privilege religion is afforded by society. However, I hate the fact that I might've offended you and want you to know that if you wanted to talk here of your religious beliefs, including fulsome opinions on Atheists, then I would be totally open to that. Even if it offended me. Everyone has the right to say what they think. I'd rather be offended than have everyone be the same.

Cam, I wholeheartedly agree that we all tell ourselves stories about life and the world and I would never want that to stop. But people have to accept that that's all it is - story-telling. Whether that's religion or Atheism. All I want is a society based on rationality, reason, common sense and fairness; on what we know for sure and can prove and above all, what works for as many people as possible. And, although people might not like me saying it, I do not think religion can, by the very dent of its nature, play any part of that. But that's just MY story :)

I will drop it now, btw. I just wanted to clarify what I'd said about religion being irrelevant, etc.

MrsFC, is cool; would be boring if we all thought the same. And I can forgive a fellow Scorp anything

Okay, so I've killed the fred. No-one should take me seriously at the mo, am v angry and lashy-out, due to crappy FC knockback. Also have Opinion Tourette's.

Going to the garden to eat worms

Except I'm not, cos we live in a flat.

I fear I'm going slightly mental with the shitness of life.

Not fred-killer. Just first day back at work and therefore must do some work.

Ketchup may make worms taste nicer.

I also can't bear to have my faith pulled to pieces in here. This is a safehouse, non ? Pliz to stop it, in here at least .

Bad day here, v sick again after several better days. Like new attic dorm muchly but can't take much in today. Will return later to be better, promise.

~rigs up fireman's pole covered with maple syrup into Pit for Scorps ~

Dawkins is a bit OTT at times, but I did enjoy how genuinely enthused he got on that big creatures being dissected programme though; nature is marvellously complicated.

Have purchased CBFM and am going to cover it in fairylights and large flashing arrow that points at the bit that says 'SHAG NOW' in the hope this helps.

~goes back to Pit~

OOh - HURRAH for the CBFM!! Boys like it too - they trust what a machine says more than a woman it would seem...

Here scorp, not sure whether you can eat ice cream, so as well as Ben n Jerrys I'm chucking down some super food blueberries, paid for by head, to help cheer you. I am also arranging for the sun to move so it shines in on you, replenishing your vitamin D.

Can't eat it; sugar.

Perhaps if I had some work I wouldn't be such a mardy caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah...

Can't eat ketchup, I meant. Am v grateful for nature-manipulation. Might even leave the building later

Scorpington Bear I luffs you. I do. I don't think anyone's faith was being pulled apart.

Have new hair. Lovely young man has made it all flicky in manner of Farah Fawcett. Obviously, when I don't bother drying coif it myself, it will prob. look like haystack.

Well hello....

I confess I've only skimmed through as it appears I missed the flight home from IBESHA - buying benson & hedges in duty free, innit - & have missed the first few days of term.

Sorry to all the droids, BFN's, Teh Rage & diffed announcements. Glad everyone else seemed to enjoy holibobs (?)

Someone mentioned Baked Alaska Ben & Jerry's? I tried this for the first time yesterday - tis highly recommended. I was in pj's, boyf & I watching "Fringe" eating ice cream from the tub. Boyf thought it was vay funny to give me a tea spoon as he produced a ladel. Ha bloody ha.

Anyhoo, CD8 here, SWI yesterday - well, you never know . Planning my list of questions for the BESH outing to FC clinic next week.

Sorry to be so boring, but have actual work to do - the cheek of it.

Tally-ho!

Lozza!! Helloooooo! As you're late, you have too have the bed next to the spooky door up to the roof space....

Mornink, BESHes, just popped in to say hello and to admire what you have done with the dorm. I am just going to take my trunk up to the box room, before I light the fire in the 6th form common room, and get the toast on. Any swarthy forriners on the prowl yet?

Re. Dawkins.. I understand Scorps point...though I think Dawkins is a bit weird I am glad he is around, especially at this point in history -I think we are teetering on the edge of dangerous times as regards religion, the freedom of speech, and political control of the planet.

The prevailing (and perhaps expanding) culture and language of offence is extremely sinister, and I am a strong believer that it is essential that powerful organisations can be held up for scrutiny, mockery and ridicule, particularly where they are based on extraordinary claims, and where they seek control over their dissenters.

Although not religious myself, I know enough people, and have studied enough, to understand how important faith can be to people on an individual basis, and as Dawkins himself says (and I mean it quite genuinely) "Good for them!", the point for concern is the desire to influence others' lives, and I think that this is why people start questioning the foundational elements of systems of belief, which in turn can upset believers. I know a lot of people think Dawkins is a bit of a frother, but lets face it, he wouldn't get on telly if he wasn't a bit controversial.

Personally, it makes me shudder to think that the world will one day be without Dawkins and Noam Chomsky, and I hope that others will step into the light before they shuffle off this mortal coil (but can't ever see a replacement for Chomsky, cause hes got it all!)

David Harvey has been taking up the mantel a bit, Cho.

I know there are people around, but Chomsky has got soo many 'extra' qualities...calm, affable, and a spectacular memory- he is one of those people who can just talk for hours in great depth, and can always pull people up on their factual inaccuracies, remembering miniscule details from 60 year old documents. Sigh.

I posted a brill spoof of Chomsky being an X Factor judge on FB, Cho

You have said what I wanted to say, but without being a ranty cow taking her temper out on others. Is hard expressing yourself when you're an Atheist as just speaking your views offends people but no-one considers that their views or beliefs might offend Atheists. We all have the right to feel offended but no-one has the right to demand that they're never offended. The thing is, I want everyone to know, that I don't know a single Atheist who wants anyone to stop having their faith. Like Dawkins, I say good for you if you believe in something. We just don't want belief to be a major factor in how things are run, because it's asking everyone to think, act, behave and live according to the opinions of one small set of people and a book written thousands of years ago. That's offensive to Atheists (and other religions). I want a secular state with everyone free to think what they want. No one way of thinking given priority.

The thing is, if people want to believe things that they can't prove, but which are very real and factual to them (and they very well might be right and me wrong), they have to accept that people will want them to explain why this is so. I think that's what upsets many people about the changing status of religion in our society, but it is the right thing to do. And it's not asking to explain so they can be forced to not believe or to be ridiculed, merely to understand better and perhaps learn things and also to work out a system that everyone can feel works for them. I accept that it's people's right to question my beliefs - and to not agree with me. Religious people need to realise that others have the same right to question them and disagree, whereas this hasn't been the case in the past. It can't be called being offensive if I question and disagree but not be offensive if people question me and disagree. This doublethink is what pisses non-believers off and what makes me get shouty.

PS Hello Lozza and LegoLurker!

. Who are you then, eh, eh? And would you like to play with us? We promise not to bite very hard. You know the drill, BESHtionnaire please.

ther = the/her. Or sumfin.

Ooooh, seckseh Lyra I like your steamy schoolgirl actions! (Wait, does that make me sound very wrong?) I seen you, swanking back from your fancy holibobs abroad, all tanned and lissome and unfairly gorgeous. No, don't look at me, I'm not worthy!

It's not the questionning Scorps. It's the shouting. And ranting. It's just not what I come to Le Palais for. So you can keep ranting, you've that right, but I don't want to argue about it, so I'm not going to. As is my right too.

How's the 2WOOFLing going Salty ?