Entitled male relatives who contribute nothing to Christmas

[GooseyGandalf]

We’re having dh’s dps for Christmas this year. Mil will bring something thoughtful, gifts for us all, that she has picked, bought and wrapped, offer to help in the kitchen, make lovely comments about the food. In previous years she has hosted for the extended family.

Fil will come. If any of the food isn’t up his liking he will pull a face. He will accept gifts, making his opinions obvious on them, as mil tuts at him and tries to redirect our attention, and at no point will he contribute anything to the occasion. Gifts are of course from both of them, but he will have no idea, or interest, in what they are. It’s obvious mil is entirely responsible.

When we were first married mil would correct my cooking choices, in line with fils preferences. I’m very happy to accommodate allergies, intolerances, preferences, vegans, and arfid - I like my guests to feel welcome. I went along with it, for mil and dh’s sake because they probably wouldn’t visit as much if I didn’t, and we’d have to stay with them more often instead, which is worse.

The entitlement sets my teeth on edge. Mil will be almost apologetic for coming at all, conscious of the workload, and he will just arrive and sit there, the great family patriarch and everyone plays along with it.

Including me.

When dinner is served, he will automatically seat himself at the head of the table, taste the turkey and there will be a pause, while everyone waits to see if he approves, and mil will relax and dh beam proudly at me and I’ll try not to get stabby.

It’s a small enough thing in the greater scheme and not particularly unusual in his generation (though nothing like my lovely df, or even my gf) and not worth causing a row about. Just getting it off my chest here, in the hopes of getting through another Christmas without exploding.

Does anyone else have the honour of hosting a Great Male Guest this Christmas?

I know what you mean @GooseyGandalf many men, by their very nature are fucking bone idle. (When it comes to domestic chores/childcare/gruntwork/ 'wifework!') My DH does very little re: Christmas, although he does decorate the Christmas tree, and put up all the electric lights outside... 6 sets over fir trees, and 1 set over the front of the house... I put up all the battery ones in the garden - about 12 sets, and all the rest of the Christmas decorations.

I also buy and wrap every last present for all 10 people 'we' buy for. This past week, I have wrapped 18 presents in all (9 each) for our 2 DC (both grown adults,) and about 6 each for their partners... I have also wrapped presents for 8 other people, about 20 more in total for those 8 ... on top of the other 30!!!

So I have wrapped around 50 presents. And I still need to wrap 9 for DH!

DH couldnt tell you what is in any of the packages - for the 10 other people - if his life depended on it. I also do all the food shopping, and all of the cooking/hosting. AND I write and deliver all of the Christmas cards.

I am my own worst ememy though, because I enjoy doing it. I know. 🙄😆

Maybe I have talked myself into believing I enjoy it all! 😆

My dad and grandfather(s) never did fuckall either... (Although IIRC, my dad used to put up the Christmas decorations, and my brother and I would help him do the tree....) That's all he did though.....

But then, my mother and grandmother(s) didn't work. It feels these days, like most women work/have a job, but also do all the domestic chores, gruntwork, life admin, and housework.... I work part time 16 hours a week, but worked more hours up to 2018. (24-26 hours a week.) And I have always done 90% of everything! (Childcare, wifework, gruntwork, domestic chores, housework, shopping, life admin, cooking.................etc....)

As someone said on a thread some months back, 'women aren't having it all, they're doing it all!' That poster was sooooo right!

@GooseyGandalf Your FIL sounds hideous! 😆 I am so sorry for you. My (late) FIL was a bit of a twat like that. Leave it all to the women, but then critisize every fucking thing!!! Unlike your FIL though, all the men in my family (DH/my father/grandfathers,) were/are always happy and grateful with what they got/get ..

It’s not a small enough thing at all. Sigh …

I would put all the chairs on the long sides of the table and put a little xmas tree on the table where the end chair normally is. That way there's no option for him to sit at the head of the table anymore.

I think those types have died out in my family, but there one story in my family of the hosting couple, one of whom was a GP (the husband) in the days when the local GP was on call over Christmas and had to go out to do house visits at any hour of the day. The father of the wife was staying (with his wife and some other of his relatives) and never lifted a finger, and had been on the recieving end of a large and tasty lunch. As it was heading towards the evening, the wife was busy preparing supper for the guests and the husband GP came in and grabbed some food to eat before rushing back out to another call. The father having witnessed this took the wife to one side and berated her for the rudeness of her husband eating while her guests hadn't been served!!

The entitlement of him was outrageous!! The wife was not only hosting her parents and some other relatives, but had three young children to look after too. As her husband was out on calls he was unable to help her, and he was giving up his festive period to tending to the sick and needy! So be 'told off' for not looking after her guests properly was cheeky-fuckery of the highest magnitude!

I hope your FIL is not too insufferable this year OP.

This is my stepmother. The men in my family are useless at gifts but they will at least cook and clean and contribute cash if requested. My stepmother just sits with a face on, expecting to be waited on. And then complains she didn't get enough attention when we all mostly ignore her (including my fathers brothers and sisters, because no one has any tolerance for a fun sponge).

Because I assume the husband is petrified of his dads anger or the atmosphere if his dad is angry. it will whizz him instantly back to being a little boy and he will forget he has agency. Well that is what is used to do to me - mum though not dad.

Agree with all the others. Get your MIL to carve the turkey. I would just say, 'it's your turn this year to do the big carving! Thanks so much for all you do for us, love you' (or whatever would be appropriate) and then have her be head of the household for a day. Sounds like the poor woman deserves it.

My DM is just the same - she manages a dreadful husband who is demanding and difficult. I don't go along with it and repeatedly ask 'what do you want Mum? Let's do what you like this time, I think we did what your husband liked last time, didn't we?' I know she panders to him and it's her own fault in a way but I also think she struggles to break the generational chains in a way that I don't.

Lots of good advice, I am appalled that when you tried a seating plan he ignored it! This is where a combination of entitlement and smug not reading the room tips into plain rudeness. Assuming you go ahead to not create a falling out which would hurt MIL then I would make use of your children to minimise your direct interactions as far as possible. Assuming your kids are at least upper primary then assign one to lead MIL to the head of the table and another to direct him to a different seat. If you carve at the table get a child to stand next to you and take the first plate to MIL etc. As pp suggested then ask what she thinks of it.
If it was me I would be contemplating not doing a traditional Christmas dinner to break the formal atmosphere. If you have daughters I would be encouraging them to challenge him on things.
Have you ever had both sets of parents at the same time?

genius!!! Please please do this @GooseyGandalf 😂😂

My Granny used to give all the men normal sized dinner plates and the women smaller side plates for their Christmas lunch. God bless my aunt (one of her DILs) who called that out in the ‘80s.

My Dad is a bit like this.

Last time he came round I did a buffet and he insisted I serve him and then left most of what I gave him.

I won't be making that mistake again.

Is he a vicar?

You know what OP if you are tolerating this pointless shit year in and year out then continue to do nothing but don't moan....however when your child hits the teenage years and they start to see,which they will do ..do not be surprised when they chime out and I quote "Why are you being so rude to my mum? She has worked so hard to do this lovely day for us and all you are doing is spoiling it..just shut up and smile .".. out of the mouths of babes .
And yes my darling girl you continue to be amazing if you read this!!

The OP could be describing my DF. He only knows they have a kitchen because he has to walk through it to get to the garden. Despite the fact the most adventurous thing he could make is toast he will happily criticise anyone else's cooking acting like Newcastle some kind of restaurant critic.

Not sure it's dying out quickly enough though! When I was still teaching I had a class of year 9 or 10 who had done a messy task and at the end I brought in a bowl of warm soapy water and some cloths, told them the wipe their table down. When I looked round one girl was wiping a boys' table, they were just sitting there watchng, when I asked why they weren't doing it her reply was Oh, Miss, you can't expect lads to do cleaning! I told her to stop and made them do it but she wasn't pleased at all!

Just how we were brought up

I recall attending something with a buffet just after we married in the late '60s, the ladies were called to the buffet and someone asked why I wasn't having anything which confused me, as I had a plate in my hand, but then I noticed that all the married women had two plates, one for their OH who couldn't be expected to select his own food! I said that OH would be very hungry if he waited for me to load his plate, MIL was horrified and went to get a second plate so she could 'take proper care of him'!

I have some like this in my family. I noticed as well that it was only the women offering to help clear the table and lots of little things like this throughout the day. I know what people are saying about confronting it but I think I’d just been seen as the weirdo causing unpleasantness as the women don’t have issues with it. What some women put up with in my family is ridiculous. Luckily my husband isn’t included in the entitled men (although I guess it’s not lucky as I avoided such entitled men when dating)

I totally agree with making sure he is laughingly ignored. Perhaps “well it’s significantly better than any turkey you’ve served up to me, or MIL, isn’t it.” Or “You’re very welcome, FIL. Sounds like you’re volunteering to do the donkey work yourself next year, both MIL and I would be delighted if we were the ones waited on hand and foot for a change.”

everyone waits to see if he approves, and mil will relax and dh beam proudly at me

There's a whole family dynamic then. Your MIL is trained to appease and serve him but your DH wants his approval and you don't want to rock the boat.
How long has this been the case? Is it too late to start with small adjustments that change things for the better?

Get 'his' chair legs loosened.
Worth sacrificing the chair to see that arse put on the floor where he belongs 😇

Dh cares a lot about what his df thinks. If he ever gets to a point of seeing for himself how fucked up that is, I’ll have his back. But in the meantime I’m not going to force the issue.@GooseyGandalf

You can see why he's a people pleaser with such a domineering father but I think he's going to need help to see the dynamics.

Everyone seems scared of the fil, a whole table of people pleasers- you, DH, mil.

Someone has to break the pattern otherwise nothing is going to change and you're the one with awareness of it.

How do you stand it? I'd be tempted to kick the sod in the balls and send him packing.

Very true, my parents and MIL were the same generation, dob 1910-1914, my Dad would do all the washing up after a big meal. We once had a big roast dinner at my parents' house and after he'd cleared all the used plates etc my Dad came in with two tea towels, tossed one to my brother and one to OH, II'll wash, you two can dry! MIL was appalled, You can't expect men to do that!

To reinforce my discomfort at Christmas, I have bought FIL washing up gloves and a book for the toilet (such titles as 'things to do when you poo) every year as stocking fillers. I am tacitly staging a rebellion.