Husband said that this Christmas has been the worst

[Shkbop]

Warning; very long post. Thank you for taking the time to read.

Last night husband said that this Christmas has been the worst. He said it so casually but the comment really hurt me.

I have found parenthood very rough. I ended up with PPD, a rough c-section recovery, colic baby with reflux and feeding problems who struggles with sleep.

However, I quickly recognised that I wasn't OK and I sought help and have been on anti-depressants for the last 4 months. LO is now 7 months and I feel like I'm starting to enjoy.

My husband clearly doesn't feel the same way and he said the following:

• Christmas has been really un-enjoyable (we have all 3 been quite ill but apparently this wasn't the only negative....)
• LO is hard work.
• LO doesn't sleep and the evenings are crap as I am constantly up and down trying to get him off.
• We don't do anything fun together anymore.
• We aren't intimate anymore.
• He hasn't enjoyed any outings with LO (with particular reference to when we took him to meet Santa, which I really enjoyed)
• He is always repeating the same days over and over again. Wake up, work, home, walk dog, cook food, bath baby, sleep and repeat.
• We don't do anything with our weekends.
• He thought things would get better by 6 months but they haven't.
• He has thought a couple of times that we would be better off 'without him'.

He then goes on to say that it isn't a criticism of me and that he is glad that I am here and that LO is also here.

I can't help but get annoyed. I feel as though I make a lot of sacrifices to try and make his life easier. I let him sleep in on all weekends, I do ALL night waking, I even took LO away with me to visit family leaving him child-free for 4 days. I cooked Christmas Dinner for us and inlaws from scratch, while ill and on 3 hours sleep. He spent 2 days in bed with minimal care of LO, only when I needed a shower. He constantly says he is tired which I acknowledge and try my best to accommodate even when I am shattered.

I dont know how to help him. He absolutely refuses anti-depressants and counselling. He has spoken to someone at work who told him that it gets better over time (the person giving advice has two teenage children). I made a few suggestions to try and help like:

• asking MIL to watch LO 1 or 2 nights a month for us to go out (he said it was a bad idea to leave LO with MIL as she drinks on a weekend but I feel that's a BS answer).
• switching roles up on weekdays like I walk dog and cook tea (LO will not sleep for anyone other than me so I can't change that).
• Sleep training LO so we get a bit more time to ourselves in the evening.

• Suggesting he talk to more people in work who have children about his problems.

I was quite blunt, and made it clear that LOs sleep will always fluctuate and pointed out he had been ill. I also said that my understanding of parenthood is that while it might get easier it's just ever changing and we have to adapt. I did ask whether it would be best if myself and LO stayed at my mother's for a little while to give him a break but he was adamant that wasn't the answer. He doesn't have an answer and that it will just get better with time.

I can't see that working. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to help? What to do? I feel like my marriage is disintegrating and that he probably has depression. I am trying to be empathetic because I have experienced PPD but the things he has said have shocked me.

Just to say really well done, everything you've gone through and everything you're doing - well done.
Encourage him to do more so you can have a break.
Give him space to talk it sounds like he's having a rough time.

It could possibly be depression-but unless he goes and seeks help from a professional-he and you won't know or be able to treat it accordingly.

I'm in the camp that you need to stop giving him an out with regards to parental responsibilities. He needs to do his share of the night waking, and he needs to allow you to have a lie in and take some of the strain off you. That way he can develop a bond with the baby and you can get some much needed rest as well.

Depression, if it is that, isn't an excuse to put your feet up, do nothing about it but complain and allow you to do all the heavy lifting. All that is going to do is run you into the ground.

It sounds like you're making a lot of accommodations for him to make things easier-but all that will do for you is make everything harder on you. This is his child, too. Depression or not, he still has responsibilities. He needs to get help. Maybe speak with health visitor about this-they may know of groups or places to go specifically for this purpose.

What is he doing to help the situation? Does he ever offer to take your DS and give you some time? He's not seeking treatment or support for his suspected depression-so what is the plan? It can't continue as it is-and the only person that can help him is him.

It is a massive life change for all, but he's going to have to adapt to it and make the best of it-and to do that, he's going to have to put effort in. Lying in bed whilst you do all the work is not going to help him. He needs to do his share.

I'd have a frank and open conversation with him re: the depression and the things he's said. Advise him that for his, yours and your DS's sake, he needs to get help. He may not want to but he needs to. It's hard on you, too, and it's being made harder because you're having to take on his share of the work as well. So I would be sympathetic and understanding with him-but also firm and clear that he needs to step up and part of that is getting help for his MH and pulling his weight more.

It does sound like the symptoms of depression.

Came here to say this.sleep deprivation causes depression. You'll.be amazed how differently everyone feels once sleep is sorted. Your baby is a good age for it now

OP, this is ill advise and I strongly advise you don't do any of that. If your husband is clinically depressed and forced to do these things it will only exacerbate his condition.

The best avenue forward is;
Get RL support, tell family and close friends your concerns so they can support and help you
Contact your GP and perhaps MIND or the Samaritans

He's saying he 'won't be one of those people" that takes pills. This isn't an uncommon response from men with depression unfortunately. It's getting him to understand the benefits of taking it and the period of adjustment for it to work that will be really helpful to him.
If he'd had a car crash and couldn't breath he'd be placed in an induced coma to give the lungs a chance to breath and recover. Antidepressants work on a similar principle but for the brain.

Good post

Well, he's not sleep deprived because OP is doing all the night wakings and letting him lie in.

So you're saying that OP just has to put up with everything, hold the fort and bear the weight until he decides to help himself?

My point was, if you sort the sleep, things will be easier for OP. At the moment she's choosing to do all the night wakings, do the settling, give lie ins. If she sleep trains successfully, that's a massive amount of work off her plate. Doesn't sound like her partner is willing to step up to the plate here - ideally he would, but realistically? Just trying to think of things she can do that she is in control of. She can't make him change.

That makes sense.

@gamerchick no, that is where RL support comes in and is the top priority. She can't do this alone

If he's clinically depressed then he won't have the initial ability to sort himself out. That's like telling someone trapped in a burning building to find their own way out and it's wrong

I'm sorry, @Tubs11 but I'm not remotely seeing how my advice was "ill advice." Your advice seems to be treat the grown man like a victim, baby him and the actual baby and hold the fort whilst he does nothing for himself or his family, which is only going to exacerbate the problem.

Of course he can't be forced to seek help but if his family and his own wellbeing are not enough motivation for him, I'm not too sure what is or why it should then fall on OP to continue to hold the fort.

MH is no joke and there's no doubt that a massive life change like having a baby can trigger issues. However, that doesn't eliminate his own responsibility for his own MH.

It's been found recently that when treating depression in men that too often, professionals are taking the same approach as they do with women and it fails. Women respond well to therapy, love and reassurance-and emotional support-and men don't respond as much to this. Men need to feel in control of something-and that they have a purpose. Which is why so many are suggesting that OP allows him to take on his share of the parental responsibilities.

Treating him like a baby is not going to work. He needs to take responsibility for his own MH and for his LO and his DP. That doesn't mean that we can't also by sympathetic or he can't have a moan about how at times things suck. He can, but alongside that, he needs to be doing his best to make it suck less.

From my experience, this is incorrect.

I've suffered from a mental breakdown in the past and was diagnosed with severe health anxiety which turned into depression. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't feel joy. There were times that I considered ending it because I couldn't cope with how I was feeling and it felt never-ending. I felt trapped.

However, I did get better. I got better through sorting myself out. Through taking the initiative and going to a doctor. It took three doctors to finally prescribe me more than a sedative or beta-blockers to "manage my physical symptoms." I ended up on ADs for a short period of 6 months whilst I sorted myself out.

To take your analogy and run with it-if someone is stuck in a burning building and there's no way for an outsider to get in to get them out, their only option is to find their own way out, is it not? Or they will, quite simply, burn.

Support is grand and no one is suggesting that OP and others don't provide support and help-but he also needs to do the legwork himself as well. No one can help a person who doesn't want to help themselves.

No, you wave the pom poms for the person who helps themself. You do not, wipe another adults arse when they don't want to do it themselves. It has to come from them first.

@clairelouwho

That wasn't my advice

My advice was that OP needs to get RL support to help them both and professional help for her DH.

I don't disagree that he needs to resume his responsibilities as a parent but there are crucial steps missing. Getting the right help and support first is paramount.

Your post struck a cord with me because this was stock advice given to a male family member who ended up taking their own life. We, as a family, have learned a lot about men's mental health since then.

You're right MH is no joke. So perhaps anyone on here who thinks he's using it as an excuse to have a sleep in or put his feet up (if behaviour is persistent and out of character) should perhaps do a little bit more research on depression because maybe when this mentality it's removed from society we'll be better equipped to understand and treat undiagnosed depression with earlier interventions.

👏👏👏

So this guy goes to work, come home cooks tea, walks the dog and baths the baby yet nearly every single response is that he's lazy / man child / OP is better off without him.

Before anyone jumps on I'm not saying it's not hard doing all the night feeds or that is fair to never get the weekend lie in.

I also agree when you're both ill you share the cooking/ resting / parenting more equally.

The division of responsibility does need to be discussed and changed but it's ridiculous to say he contributes nothing to the relationship or parenting their LO.

Being the working parent or the stay at home parent both have different challenges and both can feel overwhelming.

Supporting a partner struggling in the post natal period can be difficult on both parties.

It does sound like he's struggling and this thread completely reinforces why men find it so hard to accept help.

This!!!!

I work with the emergency services and have seen so many men be told to man up or get on with things and sadly so many take their own lives because they see no way out and don't want to ask for the right help because they'll be seen as weak.

We have to change how we deal with men when they are struggling and let them know its ok to not be ok sometimes.

I have a DS and he will always be taught that any emotion is ok and that he can cry, feel sad or happy but just to talk about it.

With my little one I did all the night wakes but I was bf so I was up anyway, DH ended up sleeping in another room so he could sleep and he would take baby in the morning, to let me try and get a bit extra. I suffered from PTSD and PPD after a traumatic birth and I never thought I'd need or be someone who needed tablets but they have really helped.

OP when my GP explained to me that depression can come from prolonged periods of stress (new baby) and that the body starts to produce less serotonin, so the tablets increase the levels and steady them again it helped me to understand it from a more logical viewpoint. I also had counselling but it's not for everyone.

OP - I’ve read your update and some responses.

Yes, he’s clearly struggling.

On and off over the years, I’ve personally found that talking it through with DH and then eventually having to give him a final ultimatum of going to the GP and/or contacting a Counsellor has been the only way.

Weeks, months or sometimes years later - DH subsequently agreed that being given an ultimatum of ‘You NEED to go and get help or else…’ was what was needed.

This approach may not work for you and your relationship, but 25+ years on it has worked for us.
Different strokes for different folks.

I would be careful about breaching your DH’s trust by sharing this information with family and friends without his permission as it’s does not sound like this would be a good idea in your DH’s case. You’ve received a lot of good advice on here re. support resources, so try those first before possibly making things worse by talking to family and friends and embarrassing your DH.

When talking to your DH, drop the names of a couple of the support organisations into the conversation and then send him a few links a few hours/days later. I would also suggest that you tell your DH that you are happy to book the GP appointment for him on his behalf. Give him a few days and then mention booking the GP appointment again.

You may have to introduce a timescale as to when you will book the appointment for him, if he has not done so by a certain date.

He’s already struggling, so I wouldn’t recommend demanding that your DH take on any extra childcare or household tasks at this stage. That obviously won’t help.

Other concerns such as the Cost of Living Crisis (COL) may be also be a factor for your DH feeling this way, so ensure you have ongoing discussions re. your financial outlook.

Listen.
Be there for him by continuously encouraging him slowly and gently to get help.

And be kind to yourself too. Try and get as much rest as humanly possible. Difficult at this stage, I know. It does get easier. Pace yourself. It’s okay to do the bare minimum on some days if you’re not up to it. Btw, I wouldn’t have cooked Christmas dinner if I was ill. I would have cancelled it or my DH and /or guests would’ve had to muck in and cook.
Good luck 💫

Man is struggling
possibly starting thoughts of everyone being “better off without him”
he doesn’t let his partner do things, he may be unable to react, to step up, to man up

add you say “fuck sympathy”

You are part of the problem

Do you think I care that you think that? If man is struggling, man should be proactive in seeking help, not dump everything on woman who is already doing more than her fair share. And 'better without me' in this case blatantly means 'maybe we should separate so I can go back to my pre-kid life.'

Oh and I do have tons of sympathy. For the OP.

@AllOfThemWitches
He's not dumping everything on her, she says he usually does the dog walking, cooking and bathing the baby when he gets in from working to financially support them. That's not nothing.

I also don't think what he meant is blatantly obvious, especially in someone who is not acting themselves, chronically tired and not enjoying any activities which are all potential symptoms of depression.

You can have empathy for both OP and her husband, no one has to choose sides

Would you have sympathy for a person who had a physical ailment which prevented them from helping their partner more but refused to do anything about it? Doubt it.

Anyway, I'd be willing to bet that this is only the beginning of OP's marital problems, sorry OP.

Having EMPATHY for someone who is struggling and think they need to take more responsibility for their recovery.

Again the two aren't mutually exclusive