Husband said that this Christmas has been the worst

[Shkbop]

Warning; very long post. Thank you for taking the time to read.

Last night husband said that this Christmas has been the worst. He said it so casually but the comment really hurt me.

I have found parenthood very rough. I ended up with PPD, a rough c-section recovery, colic baby with reflux and feeding problems who struggles with sleep.

However, I quickly recognised that I wasn't OK and I sought help and have been on anti-depressants for the last 4 months. LO is now 7 months and I feel like I'm starting to enjoy.

My husband clearly doesn't feel the same way and he said the following:

• Christmas has been really un-enjoyable (we have all 3 been quite ill but apparently this wasn't the only negative....)
• LO is hard work.
• LO doesn't sleep and the evenings are crap as I am constantly up and down trying to get him off.
• We don't do anything fun together anymore.
• We aren't intimate anymore.
• He hasn't enjoyed any outings with LO (with particular reference to when we took him to meet Santa, which I really enjoyed)
• He is always repeating the same days over and over again. Wake up, work, home, walk dog, cook food, bath baby, sleep and repeat.
• We don't do anything with our weekends.
• He thought things would get better by 6 months but they haven't.
• He has thought a couple of times that we would be better off 'without him'.

He then goes on to say that it isn't a criticism of me and that he is glad that I am here and that LO is also here.

I can't help but get annoyed. I feel as though I make a lot of sacrifices to try and make his life easier. I let him sleep in on all weekends, I do ALL night waking, I even took LO away with me to visit family leaving him child-free for 4 days. I cooked Christmas Dinner for us and inlaws from scratch, while ill and on 3 hours sleep. He spent 2 days in bed with minimal care of LO, only when I needed a shower. He constantly says he is tired which I acknowledge and try my best to accommodate even when I am shattered.

I dont know how to help him. He absolutely refuses anti-depressants and counselling. He has spoken to someone at work who told him that it gets better over time (the person giving advice has two teenage children). I made a few suggestions to try and help like:

• asking MIL to watch LO 1 or 2 nights a month for us to go out (he said it was a bad idea to leave LO with MIL as she drinks on a weekend but I feel that's a BS answer).
• switching roles up on weekdays like I walk dog and cook tea (LO will not sleep for anyone other than me so I can't change that).
• Sleep training LO so we get a bit more time to ourselves in the evening.

• Suggesting he talk to more people in work who have children about his problems.

I was quite blunt, and made it clear that LOs sleep will always fluctuate and pointed out he had been ill. I also said that my understanding of parenthood is that while it might get easier it's just ever changing and we have to adapt. I did ask whether it would be best if myself and LO stayed at my mother's for a little while to give him a break but he was adamant that wasn't the answer. He doesn't have an answer and that it will just get better with time.

I can't see that working. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to help? What to do? I feel like my marriage is disintegrating and that he probably has depression. I am trying to be empathetic because I have experienced PPD but the things he has said have shocked me.

Men cant have PND, end of story. PND is Post NATAL depression, post the act of giving birth. No pregnancy and birth means no PND.

Could this actually be more obvious?

I agree, if I was OP I would gently ask him what he means by that, i.e. is he having suicidal thoughts etc, if he is then I would encourage him to see a dr.
However, it seems he has refused any intervention, wont engage with any solutions.....or did I miss something?

Does it really matter though given that they can and do have depression after the life change of becoming a father. No let's not call it pnd but it's still depression and it helps no one to deny it. Many men do feel left out of baby only wants mum and their partner has a new focus. Yes they should get on with it and do whatever's most supportive but it can still be a time of loneliness, feeling like a spare wheel.

@Pascor

Nope.

Lol my rage at the bull shit typical woman replies meant I couldn’t read beyond the first page.

if this were from the other perspective the support for the person clearly struggling would be overwhelming. This pathetic man however just needs to suck it up, in fact, better still the woman should leave and feel empowered.

(and then join the other bitter single woman on here encouraging others to do the same no doubt).

OP - First of all as a few have said, sleep train. 7 months is far too old to be getting up and down other than the odd night teething etc.

second of all, engineer some couple time. God knows my wife and I wouldn’t be together now if we didn’t make time for each other in the early years.

I let him sleep in on all weekends, I do ALL night waking, I even took LO away with me to visit family leaving him child-free for 4 days. I cooked Christmas Dinner for us and inlaws from scratch, while ill and on 3 hours sleep.

Well STOP all that crap for a start.

He's getting away with it because you are totally enabling him.

Put your foot down. You can't do all that and pretend to be happy, then moan about it online. You're deceiving yourself as much as him.

Tell him childcare is 50/50 or he can sling his hook.

i went through very similar. Hearing ‘you would be better off without him’ is code for he wishes he wasn’t part of the family (in my case). Obvious symptoms of depression, refusing help etc… we ended up separating and one year on he is still self pitying, not pulled himself together and although it has been unbelievably hard to separate, unlit lately I am so much better off that him dragging me and the DCs down

He sounds like he is resenting not being the centre of attention. You seem very accommodating. Yes sleep deprivation is hard and you need a stricter routine with that but he has had four child free days! What’s happening right now is a picnic compared to having a baby and a toddler believe me. Myself and dh were exhausted and would bicker but the only way to get through those days were as a team.

I would insist he see a doctor. Speak to his parents and tell him that unless he gets help or speaks to someone you may have to separate. That may shock him into doing something about it.

He doesn't sound depressed to me, he sounds as though he doesn't want a baby. Simple as that.

@BeavisMcTavish
engineer some couple time
OP's done all she can to help & make life easier for him!
Honestly, from your post.... you sound bitter

I can 100% relate to how your husband is feeling. I hated the baby stage and it took me until my daughter turned two for me to turn a corner on how I felt. Things changed as she became more independent and her personality really began to shine through.

Inhad a traumatic birth (she was premature) and Covid began when she was six months old. Counselling probably would have helped but I never get past the first two sessions so in my case time was always going to be the greatest healer.

I didn't think that this would gather so many replies but I have read each and every single one I just don't know how to reply to you all so will add in some info:

I dont think that he's just having a moan. My husband has always been relatively simple with emotions. Not quite emotionless but certainly of the 'grin and bear it' generation. We've been together 12 years, so I would like to think I know him.

Many have said it could be depression, PPD or not. I'm going to try first and foremost to believe that this is what's going on. A few people have shared some resources with me - thank you. He has said he will not see a GP or take anti-depressants because he is 'not one of those people'. I've argued this with him and seemingly got no-where because he has not gone.
I have offered that he talk to people and he says he doesn't want to. The first time he disclosed that he was 'struggling' (a few weeks ago) he actually said he didn't want to talk to me about it either.
When I had PPD he helped me massively, however I took the steps necessary to getting myself
back on track. People are right, having a child is like a bomb going off and I had a really tough time handling my emotions for DS.

It really worried me when he said 'better off without him'. Some people have weighed in on what they think this means. I can't tell and he won't tell me what I can do to help him. He tells me what's wrong and my instinct is to try and fix it. He says he's tired, I let him lie in etc. It just felt like a kick in the teeth when after weeks of trying to gently accommodate him he says things that, I at least interpret, mean his life is no better for him.

He has always been the optimistic one in our relationship but now suddenly he's not and I am struggling to tell if this is genuine when I can't see him helping himself fix this.
I think from advice I will sleep train DS as I am really struggling with the deprivation anyway. Not necessarily CIO as he is a velcro baby and thanks for the resources from some people on how to do it.
As for DH I will present a few options (MH orientated) to him and ask that he do at least one of them if he is serious about sorting this.
I dont feel like we are a team anymore. I know that my PPD was very hard on him and a part of me worries that I have f*cked it because of this but I can't carry on as we are.

I haven't said most of the above to him so I suppose being open and clear will be the first step. Thank you all so much for your responses and sorry for those also going through what we are going through. Parenting is f*cking hard work but I wouldn't trade it for anything else.

You're an amazing woman, you're handling a very hard time with a huge amount of grace. I have every faith that you'll come through this, hopefully much sooner than you think.

This. Half of this thread is full of thinly veiled versions of “man up”

this bloke is struggling. Yes he might not be handling it in the best way but if he were a woman on here he’d get support. However, he’s a man so he gets called a dick.

somenof you should be ashamed

It sounds like he is struggling to adjust to parenthood. Which he is allowed to, however the fact he isn't seeking help or won't is a problem.

I don't know any new parents that haven't struggled to adapt to parenting, especially with your first, it is such a big change to your life as you knew it.

My LO is just over 6 months old so we have just experienced our first Christmas with her and although it wasn't like our usual Christmas's as we didn't really have a drink at all, we couldn't stay visiting family late and the lazy days watching films didn't happen, we made the most of it by starting some traditions with her, we took full advantage of being at family's and being able to let her be passed around a bit so we could have a bit of a break.

I have struggled with motherhood, not PND but just general adapting so I can understand your husband's feelings and my husband has been a great support to me. It is hard, but it won't always be like this. I think maybe you just need to have a frank discussion with him and tell him how you feel.

also just wanted to say you are doing more than your fair share when it comes to weekends and wake ups. I'll be honest I made my husband step up on this account as I knew if I did them all I would probably have developed PND.

Just to say OP, I could have written your posts. My DH also says these sorts of things sometimes, particularly when we're having a hard day. It's really hard to hear isn't it, even though we know it's not directed as a snub at us or our abilities as a mother but we still feel responsible especially when we're giving it our all.

So, not advice as such but a high five

He is being selfish but probably doesn't realise it as he says you might be better off without him so he does recognise to some degree this issue sits with him. You're doing an amazing job and he should be praising you for this and noticing it. However, it does sound like he may be suffering from depression or a low mood. What was he like before baby? Did he often look on the negative side or is it a recent thing I wonder. To be fair though I sort of understand where he's coming from, I've made comments like life seems boring etc.. this isn't directed at my husband though I realise it could sound that way so I'm not going to say he's an evil critical b** or whatever. And in some way it's good he's trying to talk to you about how he feels.

I also know that if the other partner seems so on top of it I do zone out. Men do this a lot. I wonder if you've asked for help. Ask for chance for a nap, or go out with friends for lunch. I wonder did he want you to take the little one away for four days? I'm not criticising but wondering if he did see it as a favour. If I took mine away for four days I know my husband wouldn't think of that as a favour unless he has something he particularly wanted to do at that time.

The thing is having a baby is difficult and expectations vary. We had 'no evenings' when our baby was under one, that's normal.

I think in this position I'd wait for a time to say I've noticed he's not his usual self and the remark about not enjoying Xmas. Say how this made you feel. Explain or reiterate the effort you've made and also anything positive he's done too.

Try to get positive ideas from him not just what's going wrong.
Ask him things like when you say we didn't do anything at the weekend what sort of thing would you like to do? You can also use this to show what you've done. For example say things like I let you have a lie in but maybe instead of this you'd prefer us to make the most of the morning and go for a coffee 😉.

Oh my god, when does a woman ever come on here and say 'I hate having a baby, my life is so hard even though my partner does every single night waking, lets me have a lie in every weekend, takes the baby away for days at a time, cooks Christmas Dinner even though he's ill and severely sleep deprived and tried to encourage me to talk to someone which I am point blank refusing to do. Plus I'm not getting any sex. Sulk.'

So because there’s no exact mirror thread, you think there are no women struggling, with partners who do a lot? And you don’t think those that post get sympathy and support.

I have to be honest here and say that I love mumsnet and have posted for help and advice. However, when my mental health hasn’t been great and I’ve felt vulnerable , I’ve not posted about it on here. I’m a bloke and I know the “just man up” responses, and general “it must be your fault” would make things worse.

this place is brutal when men are struggling.

I'll reiterate, he let his partner cook Christmas Dinner whilst ill and sleep deprived. Fuck sympathy.

Sounds like a lot of self-pitying man child excuses for husbands I know. Everything about them, but no thought for their partners. Makes me sick.

Some men really just aren’t cut out for parenthood. Unfortunately, don’t find out who they are until you’ve had a child with them. I’d be very cautious about having another one.

I really sympathise, as my husband were in a similar place to you both when DD came along. He sounds really overwhelmed and depressed by the colossal life change! As everyone else has said, it gets easier and easier but if he won’t get professional help (my DH wouldn’t either) encouraging him to talk about it is the best thing to do. Take all the help you can and do the sleep training too 💐

Hi, @Shkbop
I was one PP who said parenthood was like a bomb going off and a state of emergency. We have a lot in common.

We'd been together 13 years before having a child, and we'd talked about it loads and thought we knew what we were in for. HAH

At times, especially when he came home from a rough week at work and "just wanted to unwind" for a few hours, I had to remind myself this was the man I've loved for most of my adult life. He was so disconnected from the relentless 24/7 life of caring for and feeding the baby that I wondered if there was something wrong with him.

When you're completely consumed by the task of caring for and feeding a young baby, it's so weird that the baby's father is on a different track. Tired, fed up, bored by the daily grind, missing the affection, passion, attention and engagement you two used to have.

It's surmountable - the baby is nearly 25 now - but it takes a lot of patience ad readjustments to keep the relationship on track.

We hired a babysitter for 2 hours a week so we could have a little time out in an evening to be partners, not merely parents, and that helped.