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Telling DC Father Christmas is not real (a safe space)

374 replies

nc1985 · 08/11/2021 22:58

Anyone else gone down this route, or are planning to go down this route, with their DC?

DH and I have decided not to play along with telling our 4yo and 2.5yo that Santa exists/brings the presents at Christmas.

Our 4yo understands mermaids and unicorns, for example, are pretend and that doesn't stop her enjoying playing with them, wearing unicorn-themed costumes etc. We think the same principle will apply with Christmas, that is our DC will enjoy the "magic" of Christmas without buying in to the whole story as fact.

I just wanted a safe place to chat with other mums who are thinking similar to us. Are you out there?

Not prepared to get flamed Blush Go easy on me if you don't side with my opinion on Father Christmas/Santa.

OP posts:
nc1985 · 09/11/2021 09:08

I asked for a safe space, not a pile on.

Parents tell their kids all sorts of guff. The prophet Muhammad, God, X is the best football team of all time, sitting too close to the TV will give you square eyes, pretending to call the police if children are misbehaving, I could go on.

My DC will not be encouraged to go around telling other children Santa isn't real. A poster said something along the lines of "some people choose to believe and that's ok". Just like they choose to believe in all sorts of other crap, but we are a tolerant society that encompasses plenty of beliefs and opinions, don't we?

My DC are incredibly incredibly privileged, they have plenty of "magic" in their lives throughout the year, not just at Christmas.

I didn't realise this was such a hot topic that triggered so many.

OP posts:
SpinsForGin · 09/11/2021 09:11

People are being very naive if they think their children won't tell other children Father Christmas doesn't exist.

It's then up to parents to manage this of course, but they do talk about this in the playground and those children who don't believe do tell others.

AnnPerkins · 09/11/2021 09:12

@xxxGirlCrushxxx

I suggest you just go along with it for a few years like the rest of us do
This sounds really sinister Shock Grin Grin

Of course OP doesn't have to go along with it. Plenty of parents don't do Santa. Plenty of parents do it as a game of pretend and the fun doesn't depend on the kids 'believing'.

Some people need to get a grip. If you don't want your kids' Christmas spoiled by learning some terrible truth don't make the 'magic' dependent on lies. You certainly can't demand everybody else lies too Hmm

Kanaloa · 09/11/2021 09:17

@SpinsForGin

People are being very naive if they think their children won't tell other children Father Christmas doesn't exist.

It's then up to parents to manage this of course, but they do talk about this in the playground and those children who don't believe do tell others.

But that could happen with anybody or anything. A Christian child raised in the church could tell their Muslim friend ‘no that isn’t god, my church says x is god.’ An atheist child could tell both children ‘I don’t believe in any gods.’

As a parent you teach your child we believe in xyz others might believe abc. Whatever you decide to believe is what’s true to you.

seekingsolace2 · 09/11/2021 09:17

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

I'm not a Christian, but I have family members who are, and their kids are frequently told by other kids that God doesn't exist. They really aren't bothered by it.

I think that's the main thrust of it - from both perspectives. If Christian parents share their belief with their children that God exists, but then also fervently claim to believe in Santa, that's going to just confuse the child as to what personal belief and conviction (not to mention honesty and integrity) actually means, regardless of what faith/belief choices they make for themselves in later life.

Their parents insist that they completely believe in two omniscient men, omnipresent, miracle-working, who are as old as time (and commonly depicted with a long white beard), both associated with carpenters/carpentry in a big way, both live up in the north, both know if you've been good or bad and both want you to behave in a way that shows you want to please them. Then, eventually, those same parents admit to their children that one of those beliefs was just a fantasy but the other is nevertheless still a devout conviction.

We always told our DS that Santa was a character - like Peppa Pig or Thomas the Tank Engine etc. - about whom people made up fun stories, but we personally didn't believe he was actually real; HOWEVER, we made sure he knew that many (most?) children DID/DO believe that Santa is a real person/being - and it most certainly isn't up to us to tell other people that the objects of their beliefs are not real or that they should not believe in them.

He seems to have turned out just fine - enjoys Christmas very much as a really exciting, special time and has never for a moment tried to disabuse any other child of their belief, as they of course have every right to hold, that Santa is real.

Even aside of any religiously-motivated considerations, I know it's considered complete nasty-old-stick-in-the-mud territory, but I also hold with the 'it is actually a lie' perspective. I don't necessarily have an issue if parents tell very young children about Santa - just like they read them stories - and don't explicitly tell them that any of them are or aren't factually/historically true stories (not that young children really understand the difference anyway); but for me, the real turning point comes if, when children are older and they outright ask if Santa is real or not, instead of replying "No, he isn't real - it's just a fun children's story, but don't spoil it for anybody else", parents continue to insist that he is real and, in so doing, (imho) show a lack of respect and disregard for their children's developing reasoning skills, as well as demonstrating outright dishonesty and presenting it as truth - technically (albeit with the best, kindest motives) gaslighting them! Smile

Brilliant post
Glassofshloer · 09/11/2021 09:18

Another fine example of MN bat shittery

PomegranateQueen · 09/11/2021 09:18

My DC are incredibly incredibly privileged, they have plenty of "magic" in their lives throughout the year, not just at Christmas.

Well bully for you, fuck the rest of us who aren't so privileged and try to create a little magic for our kids at Christmas time.

Also, how daft to ask for a 'safe space' yet refer to people's religions as guff. Like that isn't going to get some people's backs up. What exactly does a 'safe space' look like? I'm guessing you didn't what any dissenting comments whatsoever.

Glassofshloer · 09/11/2021 09:21

My DC are incredibly incredibly privileged, they have plenty of "magic" in their lives throughout the year, not just at Christmas.

🤮

You’re not ‘triggering’ people OP (please stop quoting straight from the millennial hysteria handbook), you’re just irritating people with your superior attitude.

Let your kids have some magic in their lives, it all ends when you reach secondary school anyway.

elgie · 09/11/2021 09:22

A poster said something along the lines of "some people choose to believe and that's ok". Just like they choose to believe in all sorts of other crap, but we are a tolerant society that encompasses plenty of beliefs and opinions, don't we?

It was one of these FC bunfights when I first joined MN that first opened my eyes to quite how bigoted a society we live in. Even fifteen years ago when my eldest started school she had classmates who were Muslim, Jewish or from other backgrounds that meant they didn’t celebrate Christmas, or did so on a different date and with different traditions. It wasn’t difficult to discuss that with my children but it seems like it could be a major obstacle for some posters on this thread, who’ve said that parents not endorsing Santa undermines their own DC’s belief in him. Hmm

nc1985 · 09/11/2021 09:26

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll yes, it's the insistence that bugs me. Just why? Parents on here talking about "my 9yo child still believes" like a badge of honour. I personally don't get it, but I have never discouraged them for parenting the way they want to.

We are the same as you, talking about Santa the same way we talk about Peppa Pig or Anna and Elsa. Characters and stories that enhance the experience, but not the sole reason for it.

OP posts:
nc1985 · 09/11/2021 09:28

@elgie

A poster said something along the lines of "some people choose to believe and that's ok". Just like they choose to believe in all sorts of other crap, but we are a tolerant society that encompasses plenty of beliefs and opinions, don't we?

It was one of these FC bunfights when I first joined MN that first opened my eyes to quite how bigoted a society we live in. Even fifteen years ago when my eldest started school she had classmates who were Muslim, Jewish or from other backgrounds that meant they didn’t celebrate Christmas, or did so on a different date and with different traditions. It wasn’t difficult to discuss that with my children but it seems like it could be a major obstacle for some posters on this thread, who’ve said that parents not endorsing Santa undermines their own DC’s belief in him. Hmm

Yes, and as it happens, culturally my family celebrate Christmas on a different day to English tradition. I never once questioned the existence of FC when I was little because my presents came on a different day.

OP posts:
HiHihIiii · 09/11/2021 09:29

My young children know Santa isn't real. They know some people like to pretend he fills the stockings and it doesn't do any harm to do so. Someone in the supermarket asked them if they know what they're asking Santa for yet, my 5 year old gave them a very amused look and said 'We always get a stocking full of surprises'.

We are not christain, Christmas is not our main winter celebration. But we do stockings, roast and Christmas cake on Christmas because a consumerist society pressures us into it. Everyone asks about Christmas, are you looking forward to it, did you have a nice one. Somehow we're depriving our children if we don't celebrate a Christain festival and on top of that pretend a fat man in red gives them gifts so all small children can enjoy the magic of wondering why Santa bought them secondhand lego but their mate a brand new switch. They got a stocking but Santa bought their friend everything under the tree as well as the stocking. Are they not as good? Whole Santa thing is an awful can of worms IMO. Must have all small children believing so nobody blabs.

If my children ever ask why we don't do Santa, that is what I'll tell them. But at the moment, they're happy with some people like to pretend and it doesn't do any harm. I don't care whether or not they blab to be honest.

SpinsForGin · 09/11/2021 09:29

But that could happen with anybody or anything. A Christian child raised in the church could tell their Muslim friend ‘no that isn’t god, my church says x is god.’ An atheist child could tell both children ‘I don’t believe in any gods.’

As a parent you teach your child we believe in xyz others might believe abc. Whatever you decide to believe is what’s true to you.

But that's exactly what I'm saying.... children will say it!
It's up to parents to teach children that people believe in different things BUT there have been a number of people who say they've told their children not to tell other children. Im just saying that's rather naive...... I've seen/heard it happen dozens and dozens of times!

stingofthebutterfly · 09/11/2021 09:54

@ilovepixie

Has anyones child ever googled is Santa real? I know if the internet had of been invented when I was a child I would of done.
The first result says Santa is real, so there Grin
dottiedodah · 09/11/2021 09:56

I think they are very young to know the "truth " about Santa .We never used the "If you dont behave,no presents from Santa" line,nor was it ever used when we were small. The problem is that they will meet other children who do believe .At this age they are too young to understand why they dont believe and others do.Also what about the tooth fairy or the Easter Bunny?

HiHihIiii · 09/11/2021 10:06

@dottiedodah

I think they are very young to know the "truth " about Santa .We never used the "If you dont behave,no presents from Santa" line,nor was it ever used when we were small. The problem is that they will meet other children who do believe .At this age they are too young to understand why they dont believe and others do.Also what about the tooth fairy or the Easter Bunny?
They aren't too young to understand some people do or don't believe. Maybe too young to understand why they should keep it a secret, but I don't believe they need too, I've never asked mine too nor would I critise them for doing so. I think that is asking too much. In fact we've spoken about Santa not being real in the supermarket with other children around a few times as smalls have bought it up with seeing Santa on selection boxes etc. And why shouldn't we? We can talk about whatever we like.

We don't do the Easter bunny, in fact we don't even give easter eggs on Easter.
We do the tooth fairy because my 5 year old was panicking about her teeth falling out aware it will happen soon, mothing wrong with a bit of childhood fantasty especially if it provides comfort to small children. The whole lying to your child thing is not why we don't do Santa. However if they were ever told, I'd explain it is just a story but it is nice to think of a whole castle made of your teeth by a fairy.

hellywelly3 · 09/11/2021 10:06

It’s for such a short time just try and enjoy it. Trips to see Santa, leaving him a glass of milk and a carrot for Rudolph it’s really lovely and part of childhood. The almost feeling sick with excitement because Santa’s coming is still one of my favourite childhood memories.

RacketeerRalph · 09/11/2021 10:13

I think my parents trotted out the line "if you don't behave then Santa won't bring you any presents" quite a lot. I once got a sack of potatoes one year because I was being naughty apparently. A few days later I got my Christmas presents but I remember being absolutely crushed about the potatoes from Santa. As a parent myself now, I think it was incredibly weak parenting from my parents to trot out the Santa line to keep your children "well behaved". That's just not how I roll.

That's just absolute shit parenting. I never understand threatening kids with Santa (or threatening them at all). Mine are 6&3 and Santa is a purely benevolent figure, no threats. We also help Santa give presents to everyone by donating to the toy drive.

I have nothing but happy memories of Santa. He was never a threat. When I found out it was my parents I wasn't upset, I didn't feel I'd been lied to but instead like I was being brought in to the fold of the world's best kept secret.

Glassofshloer · 09/11/2021 10:15

Also OP I highly doubt your 2.5 year old can differentiate between real and imaginary at this stage. They will probably stare at you blankly if you even try to explain what Santa is, let alone go on to say he’s not real just a cultural figure etc.

Im actually laughing at how pretentious this all is!

Floralnomad · 09/11/2021 10:18

My children , who are now adult , always knew Santa wasn’t real . He was like a fantasy figure . It didn’t stop us going to see FC etc . Christmas was always magical and both of ours still love Christmas now . AFAIK they never said anything to anyone else it really just wasn’t a big deal . Our Christmas starts when the tree goes up ( Dec1 usually although last year it was end of November) , we go away for a couple of short breaks to take in Christmas markets / light trails , we have certain TV shows that we traditionally watch during Dec ( not all Christmassy ) . Our daughter is very difficult to buy for but as she said to me yesterday she enjoys the ‘atmosphere’ and presents are not important .

caringcarer · 09/11/2021 10:24

I can still remember how angry and upset my Mum was when my 5 year old sister came home from school and said X said Santa is not real it is your parents buying presents. It really spoilt Xmas that year. Can you Guarantee your children won't spoil Xmas for other children by telling them Santa is not real?

NavigatingAdolescence · 09/11/2021 10:37

@caringcarer

I can still remember how angry and upset my Mum was when my 5 year old sister came home from school and said X said Santa is not real it is your parents buying presents. It really spoilt Xmas that year. Can you Guarantee your children won't spoil Xmas for other children by telling them Santa is not real?
You know they have to find out sometime, don’t you?
ItWasntMyFault · 09/11/2021 10:38

Santa is real if you believe he is someone that loves giving gifts to children just to make them happy.
I love giving gifts to my children to make them happy, therefore I am Santa and I am real. I just don't have a beard or red suit.
My kids are now adults and we still do the stockings etc it's fun.

pinkhighlight · 09/11/2021 10:45

I love having Father Christmas so much I don't intend to tel my dc until maybe when they're 21 but there are definitely dc in my dd class who have already been told outright he doesn't exist and tbh it hasn't affected my dd. The mum did tell her dc not to tell the other dc though and I think that was kind to do so.
It's so amazing I can't understand why you don't want FC though Grin

theremustonlybeone · 09/11/2021 10:47

I am not surprised by your view- your parents are cruel- to leave you a potato on xmas day is just shocking. What horrible people.

Doesnt however stop you making christmas lovely with your own DC.

I have always loved xmas and having grown up in a home where my father beat my mum and then left us. Christmas and santa was an escape from trauma. My mum was a single mum to 3 DC at 22. She made christmas wonderful. Santa was the magical person who flew in and made one day of the year special. As a young child it was magical....