Telling DC Father Christmas is not real (a safe space)

[nc1985]

Anyone else gone down this route, or are planning to go down this route, with their DC?

DH and I have decided not to play along with telling our 4yo and 2.5yo that Santa exists/brings the presents at Christmas.

Our 4yo understands mermaids and unicorns, for example, are pretend and that doesn't stop her enjoying playing with them, wearing unicorn-themed costumes etc. We think the same principle will apply with Christmas, that is our DC will enjoy the "magic" of Christmas without buying in to the whole story as fact.

I just wanted a safe place to chat with other mums who are thinking similar to us. Are you out there?

Not prepared to get flamed Go easy on me if you don't side with my opinion on Father Christmas/Santa.

Mine are older teenagers. I still haven't told them 😂

@caringcarer

I can still remember how angry and upset my Mum was when my 5 year old sister came home from school and said X said Santa is not real it is your parents buying presents. It really spoilt Xmas that year. Can you Guarantee your children won't spoil Xmas for other children by telling them Santa is not real?

If parents raise their children to respect plurality of belief then it’s unlikely they’ll announce to other children that their belief in Santa is wrong. But more to the point, children who are taught that other people believe different things and that’s okay won’t have the foundation of their world rocked if another child says Santa isn’t real. Most kids, in our multicultural society, will have classmates who don’t celebrate Christmas at all, so clearly don’t “believe” in Santa, whether or not there are children who do Christmas but know Santa is a fun story based on an old Christian tradition of St Nicholas rather than a literal truth. And anyway, all children will know slightly older kids who could reveal the truth to them.

It’s much better to instil in kids that other people have different beliefs and varied traditions, than expect everyone else to go along with something in order to shore up your own belief or tradition.

I've just read the potato thing. Awww I feel sad for you OP, that has nothing to do with how you do it for your own dc. You sound traumatised by it, you could do Santa the way you want him and expected him to be?
We say Santa is watching as a bit of a joke rather than an actual parenting tool. Anyway just my bit I do think if you can you should go with it and enjoy it.

@theremustonlybeone your mums sounds amazing.

My concern is that your children don’t understand they need to keep that to themselves and will tell other children.

@nc1985 My DC will not be encouraged to go around telling other children Santa isn't real.

They will 100% tell their classmates that Father Christmas isn’t real.

I should add that we never sat ours down and said FC isn’t real , we just never told them he was real in the first place

I can still remember how angry and upset my Mum was when my 5 year old sister came home from school and said X said Santa is not real it is your parents buying presents. It really spoilt Xmas that year.

Sounds like it was spoilt for your mum more than for your sister, though? I’m convinced all the hype around Father Christmas is far more for the parents than for the kids. Take my Elsa example upthread; my DD loved dressing up in the costume and acting bits out from the film. Did it matter she wasn’t “real”? Not at all. I think Santa can be the same - they just accept the fun of it and can see him as a character, rather than all these Herculean attempts to convince kids that he’s a living person who dashes round the world on a sleigh, defying the laws of physics. I just don’t think it has to be all or nothing.

A friend of mine went down the route of never lying to her children, including never doing the Tooth Fairy or Father Christmas. She now deeply regrets it, seeing how much fun other families have with the excitement and anticipation.

@WimpoleHat

I can still remember how angry and upset my Mum was when my 5 year old sister came home from school and said X said Santa is not real it is your parents buying presents. It really spoilt Xmas that year.

Sounds like it was spoilt for your mum more than for your sister, though? I’m convinced all the hype around Father Christmas is far more for the parents than for the kids. Take my Elsa example upthread; my DD loved dressing up in the costume and acting bits out from the film. Did it matter she wasn’t “real”? Not at all. I think Santa can be the same - they just accept the fun of it and can see him as a character, rather than all these Herculean attempts to convince kids that he’s a living person who dashes round the world on a sleigh, defying the laws of physics. I just don’t think it has to be all or nothing.

Took my then 7 year old to a Brian Cox gig. In the car on the way home she declared “see. I told you. If Santa did deliver presents all over the world he’d have to break the speed of light and nothing can do that.” 🤷🏻‍♀️

So much magic in science and nature we haven’t ever missed the fat bloke in the red suit.

Totally with you OP. Santa Claus has gone beyond a little story to a massive lie, with Hollywood, the news, strangers in on it. We are never telling our child he is real. We say 'we don't do Father Christmas in our house' and 'Father Christmas is a story some parents tell their children.' You are not alone!

@ItWasntMyFault

Santa is real if you believe he is someone that loves giving gifts to children just to make them happy. I love giving gifts to my children to make them happy, therefore I am Santa and I am real. I just don't have a beard or red suit. My kids are now adults and we still do the stockings etc it's fun.

Santa exists, but isn't real.

Santa exists, but isn't real.

That’s a very good way to look at it, @00100001. Like Paddington Bear, or James Bond.

A Christian child raised in the church could tell their Muslim friend ‘no that isn’t god, my church says x is god.’ An atheist child could tell both children ‘I don’t believe in any gods.’

But actually they don't - because when they're tiny it isn't generally discussed in those terms, and by the time they are old enough to understand that beliefs differ, we explain to them that some adults truly hold these beliefs and consider them important, and children do respect adults.

Whereas for Santa, they understand that small children believe but older children and adults know the truth. So they gleefully show off their knowledge.

You say you won't encourage them to tell other kids, but they still will - and that's really poor form.

Those people saying they don't care if their children blab... or they've spoken about Santa not existing in the supermarket in front of other small children: those parents are inconsiderate and selfish.

ChristmasLightsAndSparkles, whilst I’m in agreement you can’t compare people’s genuine religious beliefs with the pretend Santa belief and it is disrespectful to do this. We do live in.a multicultural society. I’m not going to tell my children Santa doesn’t visit them because they are Muslim children. I tell them the truth that it’s make believe.

I'm really unconvinced that most small children have such a fantastic grasp on what's real and what isn't. Most fairytales etc are set in a "historical past" — the average 3 year old is unlikely to differentiate between Cinderella and Florence Nightingale in terms of how real they are.

I suspect a lot will believe in Father Christmas because appears in books and films, at garden centres etc. Unless every single time you say "he isn't real", I suspect the default is they'll believe in him because they see him!

I'm also bemused by the thought that Father Christmas and Christianity not going together — there was always a Father Christmas at our church Christmas fair, and he evens turns up in Narnia.

How is it poor form? Some children don’t celebrate Christmas, some don’t believe in Santa. Others do. If a child tells another child they don’t believe in Santa then you can just tell your child ‘oh well do you believe in Santa though?’

If the child believes their friend that Santa isn’t real then chances are they already half-knew.

[quote MangoIce]**@nc1985* My DC will not be encouraged to go around telling other children Santa isn't real.*

They will 100% tell their classmates that Father Christmas isn’t real.[/quote]

And what about the Muslim children, the Jewish children, the Hindu children, the Buddhist children, who don't even celebrate Christmas let alone all the traditions surrounding it, including FC? Or should we just all think the same with no provision for alternate beliefs and views?

And what about the Muslim children, the Jewish children, the Hindu children, the Buddhist children, who don't even celebrate Christmas let alone all the traditions surrounding it, including FC? Or should we just all think the same with no provision for alternate beliefs and views?

That's not the point people are making.
It's a response to those who say their children won't tell..... of course they will!

I'm also bemused by the thought that Father Christmas and Christianity not going together — there was always a Father Christmas at our church Christmas fair, and he evens turns up in Narnia.

My DM is the vicar and my DF is playing FC this year (he's also an atheist!) We very much have plurality of belief in this vicarage 🎅🏼🎄😁

@SpinsForGin

And what about the Muslim children, the Jewish children, the Hindu children, the Buddhist children, who don't even celebrate Christmas let alone all the traditions surrounding it, including FC? Or should we just all think the same with no provision for alternate beliefs and views?

That's not the point people are making.
It's a response to those who say their children won't tell..... of course they will!

So what if they tell? That's the same as any of the other kids listed above telling them, surely?

It's either bad that children tell each other the truth, or it isn't - religious/cultural belief surely ahs nothing to do with truth telling?

Your kid is going to find out that it's all a pretence sooner or later whether they come to the conclusion independently, you tell them or because Sammy told them at school...

@WimpoleHat

Santa exists, but isn't real.

That’s a very good way to look at it, @00100001. Like Paddington Bear, or James Bond.

indeed :)

The point I'm making is not about the rights and wrongs of telling ..... I was simply responding to those who were saying their kids wouldn't tell or they've told them not to tell.

Of course they bloody will! They're kids! At least acknowledge that that is likely to happen,

Father Christmas is a big thing in our house but it's my responsibility as a parent to teach my child that people have different beliefs and I'm fine with that.

So because your parents were cruel to you as a child your wanting to take the whole Christmas magic away from your children, that makes sense 🤔

You do realise you don’t actually have to use the whole naughty nice thing with your children.

They will be the only children at nursery & primary school who won’t be involved in the Christmas magic. Not mentioning the lack of popularity you will have when your children ruin it for other children.

Well your parents were clearly pricks to do that to you.

And all Catholics and Christians (and coming from Ireland, that’s a whole load of Catholics in particular!) I know ‘do’ Santa.

Op if you haven't explicitly told them Santa doesn't exist and your dc are well aware that Father Christmas exists as a character you're hardly any different to most parents. Your title is misleading.

A lot of parents don't make extreme efforts to prove Santa is real or use the concept to threaten their children into behaving.

This is hardly a ground breaking new parenting approach.

Honestly why do new parents think they've reinvented parenting!