Telling DC Father Christmas is not real (a safe space)

[nc1985]

Anyone else gone down this route, or are planning to go down this route, with their DC?

DH and I have decided not to play along with telling our 4yo and 2.5yo that Santa exists/brings the presents at Christmas.

Our 4yo understands mermaids and unicorns, for example, are pretend and that doesn't stop her enjoying playing with them, wearing unicorn-themed costumes etc. We think the same principle will apply with Christmas, that is our DC will enjoy the "magic" of Christmas without buying in to the whole story as fact.

I just wanted a safe place to chat with other mums who are thinking similar to us. Are you out there?

Not prepared to get flamed Go easy on me if you don't side with my opinion on Father Christmas/Santa.

Hmmm, believing in Santa, and believing in god... all sounds pretty similar to me.

Except people who believe in God actually believe in God - they’re not lying.

It does feel icky to do that.

As for the magic argument, there’s plenty of magic to go round at Christmas. Angels! Three Wise Men! Shooting Star! It’s the greatest story ever told. Thousands of years of stories and magic.

Meanwhile Father Christmas is one third folk tale and two thirds Coca Cola advertising campaign. Meh.

I think FC or not you can still make a lovely magical Christmas for your DC. I was brought up with FC so have done it with my DC too. FC brings small presents that he puts in their stockings and the presents under the tree are from family and friends. We leave a mince pie etc and hang stockings on the fireplace. I have never linked FC to behaviour. I have always told mine that FC is about the spirit of the season - love and giving.

This is abit grim, let kids be kids.

Posted too soon - my eldest is 14 now and obviously doesn't believe but I've never outright told him. He still enjoys going along with it for his DSis who is 9.

It is possible for DC still to have fun with something without necessarily believing. So I never did the elf. But a few years ago my DD got given an Elf at Christmas. They have one at school so she knew about it moving around. However she knew it was a toy so had no belief in it being 'real' but still enjoys me moving it when she's asleep to find in the morning!

I always felt like my lot went along with it for the fun of it. My youngest (now 8) made noises about it not being real ages ago but still went along with leaving the mince pie and the reindeer food sprinkling in the garden. I guess this will be the first year we don't do it. I asked her again what she wants for Xmas yesterday and she named the most expensive Lol doll in the Smyth's catalogue, I said "I'm not paying 50 quid for a doll you won't even play with", and she said "so are you saying Santa isn't real then?". My point is, it's fun to let them believe.

Surely when a child asks you if Father Christmas is real you just quote Roald Dahl ´those you don’t believe in magic will never find it.’ And then you sit back and watch their little brains try to work out what that means.

´those who don’t believe in magic will never find it’ I need an edit button

When I look back at my childhood the magic of Christmas and Santa conjures up my best memories. Waking up on Christmas morning to stockings from Father Christmas, putting out mince pies and a carrot under the tree, writing letter, visiting him, waiting up in hope of seeing him and imagining hearing bells at night is definitely something I couldn't deprive my children of.

The world can be an incredibly bleak place, especially these days and I relish any opportunity to inject a bit of magic and fantasy into the lives of my children. I let their imaginations run wild and allow them to be carefree enchanted children, they have so many years of being serious adults ahead of them, let them enjoy every moment.

I'm grateful to my parents for encouraging me to believe in Santa, there's no way Christmas would've been the same without believing.

I think, depending on their age, that could be very frustrating for them, though, if they're wanting a straight answer to a simple question from a trusted person.

Even as an adult, I hate it when people deliberately try to obfuscate when answering me - I'd much rather them just say "Not telling!" rather than make out they're answering my question but determined to fob me off or mislead me. I have the adult confidence to respond in kind and say "Don't bother, then - I'll just ask somebody else", but a child talking to their parent probably wouldn't have that mature assuredness.

Reminds me of that scene in The IT Crowd, where the woman is repeatedly asking Jen what 'IT' actually stands for, and Jen keeps responding with "Oooh, what doesn't it stand for?!?!" - I suppose the difference there, though, was that Jen genuinely didn't know the true answer

....sorry, that was responding to the Roald Dahl quote about believing in magic.

@Mammyloveswine

Oh ffs so miserable! I'd be raging if your child ruined Christmas for mine and furious I'd no longer have the bargaining tool of Santa's watching.

But WHY would their child ruin Christmas for yours? and not the Jewish kid who told them exactly the same thing?

I think that’s really mean. Where’s the harm in them believing?

Please don’t do this - it’s one of the loveliest, purest joys of childhood. It hurts nobody, and you don’t have to say FC brings all the gifts, maybe just the stockings if you want some credit etc.

You will also be deeply unpopular with other children’s parents if you do this, as your children will be the ones who blurt out “he’s not real” to other children, and ruin it for them.

If your DC did this to mine I would probably give you a piece of my mind.

@Franticbutterfly

I always felt like my lot went along with it for the fun of it. My youngest (now 8) made noises about it not being real ages ago but still went along with leaving the mince pie and the reindeer food sprinkling in the garden. I guess this will be the first year we don't do it. I asked her again what she wants for Xmas yesterday and she named the most expensive Lol doll in the Smyth's catalogue, I said "I'm not paying 50 quid for a doll you won't even play with", and she said "so are you saying Santa isn't real then?". My point is, it's fun to let them believe.

But why would you stop doing the mince pie etc, just because she's changed her belief?

You could change it slightly and see if she can guess who ate the mince pie (You/dad/whoever) - or move the mice pie and hide it somewhere for her to find...

you could just say let's feed the hedgehogs some food...

I dunno anything.

Just because they don't believe in a lie anymore, doesn't mean you can't do things/have to stop doing stuff. It can grow/change with your kids.

@VestaTilley

I think that’s really mean. Where’s the harm in them believing?

Please don’t do this - it’s one of the loveliest, purest joys of childhood. It hurts nobody, and you don’t have to say FC brings all the gifts, maybe just the stockings if you want some credit etc.

You will also be deeply unpopular with other children’s parents if you do this, as your children will be the ones who blurt out “he’s not real” to other children, and ruin it for them.

If your DC did this to mine I would probably give you a piece of my mind.

Again, why would your child automatically believe OPs child?

Saw your update.

Good parents don’t use Santa as a threat. We don’t. We’d never tell our child he wouldn’t get presents or that it was contingent on behaviour.

As to your awful parents giving you potatoes on Christmas Day - that’s abusive, frankly.

Your child can believe without having things like that threatened to them.

But WHY would their child ruin Christmas for yours? and not the Jewish kid who told them exactly the same thing?

That brings to mind the Mitchell & Webb sketch, where the host is trying to find answers from an assembled panel of 'boffins' as to whether or not there is a God, and he gets madly frustrated and irritated when they come out with conflicting answers - until one of the boffins (played by the brilliant Olivia Colman) is left with no option but to 'womansplain' to him that they have different beliefs and viewpoints on some things and they're discussing and respectfully disagreeing in certain cases.

@00100001 who knows whether they would or not, but it would sow a seed of doubt, and I’d rather nobody burst that bubble for my 2 year old.

Talk about letting your kids ruin it for all the other kids at their schools

[quote VestaTilley]@00100001 who knows whether they would or not, but it would sow a seed of doubt, and I’d rather nobody burst that bubble for my 2 year old.[/quote]
but, you can't stop kids telling each other the truth.

They might hear it from a 9 year old, an adult in passing... it's not fair to put the burden of secret keeping on a wee kid.

You're the one lying to your child, so you have to deal with any fallout when your lie is exposed - don't blame others for not keeping up the lie...

@Cheekytea

Talk about letting your kids ruin it for all the other kids at their schools

FFS what about all the kids that are older that gleefully tell the younger kids, what about all the non-christmas kids who talk about other festivals.

Jeepers. if you're going to lie to your kids, that's on you to keep the lie going... not other kids or parents.

Again, why would your child automatically believe OPs child?

I'd ask the same question, really. If your child is confident that you're telling them the truth (in anything, not just Santa), why would they suddenly give far more weight to what a random child told them?

Young kids (primary aged) know very well that they - along with other kids - don't really have the full handle on facts and, much as they might complain about their 'boring' or 'moaning' parents and teachers, unless they live in an abusive situation, they do instinctively find comfort and reassurance in deferring to what trusted adults tell them.

Which is why, imho, it's even worse when parents angrily bluster and still insist it's all true, when their kids are old enough to start asking direct questions - the point when 'sharing magical fantasy' turns into outright telling them barefaced lies

I agree that expecting/forcing/guilting children into affirming at all times that they can indeed see and admire the (naked) emperor's beautiful, fine new clothes is not how I would want to conduct things.

Not to derail the thread, but there's a certain topic on MN where people - adults - share their widespread resentment in being told that they must do exactly this in certain situations, ignoring any personal reservations, conflicting beliefs and feelings of awkwardness or offence - not even allowed to ask any (respectful) questions in the first place.

Wow a bombs gone off in this thread alright

I don't think this needs to be nearly as big a deal as people make it out to be, but for some reason this question makes people really insufferable.

On the one hand, you get smug puritans casting lofty aspersions about 'lying' to your children and patting themselves on the back for being sufficiently clear eyed and morally superior to inform their children from day one that there is absolutely no such thing as faith, magic or belief in the universe.

And then on the other you get lunatics who view not encouraging a belief in Santa as a form of satanic child abuse.

Both positions are tedious when there is a vast and comfortable middle ground which encompasses everything from children from non-Christian backgrounds who don't celebrate Christmas to parents who tell their kids Santa is a metaphor but that some believe he is a real person and that's ok because we are all allowed to believe different things.

It truly doesn't need to be an issue.